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#21 Dylan Waco

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:06 PM

I remember liking Souled Out 98 a lot the last time I liked it too. Don't remember thinking anything on the show was great, but it was a "solid" show from top to bottom even if I thought Bret v. Flair was merely "good." Also I agree on Booker T. To me he aged really poorly. One thing I always did like about him was the multitude of finishing moves, but other than that he does not impress much in the rear view. Though the implication that Saturn of all people carried him amuses me.

#22 Loss

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:10 PM

You could say that about Booker T, Kidman, Raven and probably a lot of other over midcarders that people seemed to want push harder. I do think Booker had serious potential as a serious act, but WWE played up his comedic stuff more. He wasn't as high on the card in WCW, but he was presented as an accomplished athlete. I wish they would have gone all out on a push before they did, but I guess his '98 injury would have derailed things even if they were going to push him to the top.

#23 El-P

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:25 PM

Though the implication that Saturn of all people carried him amuses me.


Saturn threw him around, worked spots and submission holds, and although Booker was not a good seller at all, at least if was fun to watch. As soon as Booker went back on offense, he was doing his own 5 moves of doom and that was it. Saturn didn't really "carry" Booker, but he was the entertaining part of the match. Saturn was more fun here than he was in ECW though.

#24 El-P

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 02:06 PM

February 1998 _Booker T puts Martel out with an injured knee. Man, this guy was not only mediocre in the ring but also not safe at all. Two PPV's and two injuries, to the same guy. He stopped doing the Harlem Hangover after giving Martel and Saturn concussions. _I had totally forgotten that Yuji Nagata was working in WCW at the time. Makes for odd matches like Yuji Nagata vs La Parka on Thunder. They totally missed the boat on La Parka, they should have pushed the guy, he was great and the fans could have cared about him easily. _Jericho continues to develop, and he's gold, although his "feud" with Juvy was sad in that Juvy just loses his mask for no reason whatsoever. But it's obvious Jericho was going to be something special. For a few weeks there's this über cool team of Jericho and Guerrero. These guys should have been on top of WCW by the next year or two if Bischoff had a brain. _Goldberg still has no smoke up his nose, but the crowd really gets behind him. They are aware of that fact and instead of putting guys like Mongo with him on PPV, he gets Brad Armstrong so he can look like gold. His match with Regal was really bizarre. I never bought the "Regal shot on Goldberg" story, but it's hard to not notice Regal being quite stiff and looking a bit uncooperative at times. It made for the best Goldberg match though, as squashing Armstrong, Jim Powers or Mark Starr really meant shit. _The revisionnist history wants to tell us that Bret didn't fit in WCW, but god the fact says otherwise, they just didn't do shit with him. After a month and a half they seem to remember that Bret was involved in the Starrcade main event, so we get some ass-half promos about Bret being Hogan's N°1 target. Then Bret is trapped by the new member of the nWo.... Brian Adams. Yeah. And then he gets into a feud with... Curt Hennig, who's a glorified mid-carder.... while Hogan quickly forgets about him. Seriously, they couldn't have handled Bret worse than they did. I got a kick out of Gene saying "We know who that guy was" when Adams show up. TNA 10 years before, anyone ? _I like DDP, but it's obvious he drags Benoit down in the ring. DDP as far as ring work and character clearly peaked in 97. _Superbrawl was a major PPV on paper, but didn't deliver. Way too much Booker T. And three nWo matches that looked bad. Finally we get the Steiner turn, which was way overdue by this time and the match was barely the angle itself. Still, Steiner turning was a good thing. Luger vs Savage again was just a nothing match, the only notable thing was the crowd shitting on babyface Luger, to the point of loudly cheering Liz when she interfered to break the torture rack. And Hogan vs Sting had yet another screwy finish, because god knows Hogan can't job clean. That said, Hogan was the only one working hard, as Sting looks just incredibly lazy, even in the post match celebration. _Amazing promo by Hogan on Nitro after he loses the belt, basically saying Sting is beneath him, that he'll work against Scott Hall (=midcard) while putting the main event focus on himself vs Savage. Way to fuck up one year and a half of build even more after the Starrcade main event fiasco. _I enjoy Disco Inferno and Buff Bagwell way more than I thought I would. _WCW signed Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog and Brian Adams from WCW after the Montreal screwjob, and they get TV and PPV time... Montreal really was a blessing for WWF... _Best random match of the month : Meng vs Barbarian on Nitro, beating the shit out of each others. _Crap, Public Enemy is back...

#25 jdw

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 10:36 PM

February 1998
_Amazing promo by Hogan on Nitro after he loses the belt, basically saying Sting is beneath him, that he'll work against Scott Hall (=midcard) while putting the main event focus on himself vs Savage. Way to fuck up one year and a half of build even more after the Starrcade main event fiasco..


I remember at the time putting over this promo over HUGE as an example of just how great Hogan was. :) They thought they were moving past Hogan, and he just turns everything back around himself, and is so strong on the mic that the marks would go, "Yeah... that's right, Hogan is The Man in WCW despite Sting having that belt over there." :P

Sort of evil brillance captured in one moment, probably better than any single moment in that era. I suspect there were more evil moments after that, but the promotion had peaked by this point... sort of the resolution of the peak.

John

#26 El-P

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 02:52 AM

February 1998
_Amazing promo by Hogan on Nitro after he loses the belt, basically saying Sting is beneath him, that he'll work against Scott Hall (=midcard) while putting the main event focus on himself vs Savage. Way to fuck up one year and a half of build even more after the Starrcade main event fiasco..


I remember at the time putting over this promo over HUGE as an example of just how great Hogan was. :) They thought they were moving past Hogan, and he just turns everything back around himself, and is so strong on the mic that the marks would go, "Yeah... that's right, Hogan is The Man in WCW despite Sting having that belt over there." :P


And quite frankly, they had no reason not to believe him. Add to that fact Sting showing up on TV *without the big gold belt* in the weeks after Superbrawl, looking just like before. Amazingly stupid. And you don't get any big Sting promo or even statement on Nitro that he is the Man now. It's just business as usual, Sting shows up to fight the nWo without his belt. It's shocking to watch how quick the booking degenerated. It seems once they fucked up Starrcade, they just all sense of what they were doing. It's mind-boggling to watch Bischoff being so arrogant, poiting to "Raw fears ratings" signs in the crowd, and then holding the mic for Hogan to do this kind of deleterious promo. They only had one month or two winning the rating war at this point, and they have no idea what is going to hit them. It's fascinating, and sad when you think how hot and fresh this promotion was just two years before.

#27 sek69

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 03:13 AM

It was touched on before, but man when Nitro went to 3 hours you can see they were struggling to fill all that time. It was cool when you'd get some random undercard matchup or an old school squash, but not so much after the 23rd nWo B team promo of the night.

#28 rovert

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:16 AM

Reading the Torch while following Will's WCW set and saw this in the December 28 1998 edition:

WCW has a list of 100 wrestlers on a "protection plan" who the bookers are not allowed to book doing a job without Bischoff's approval.



#29 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:04 AM

Lord Steven Regal vs. Johnny B. Badd, Clash of the Champions XXV (11/10/93)

Regal vs. Badd was a fun match-up, not only because the wrestling was decent but because Badd was exactly the sort of commoner that his Lordship despised. This wasn't a particularly great match (it was completely devoid of a third act, if you care to think about wrestling in those terms), but for the life of me I can't figure out why Mero had such a bad rep as a worker. Seems like it was completely personal or disdain for the gimmick. He kinda reminds me of Zenk in that he had a look that people (read: sheet readers) don't want to like. A bit too bodybuilder-ish and a bit too pretty. Not to mention the tassles! Never a good thing if you want to get over with the sheet readers. Anyway, he's a guy who needs his reputation restored along with Buff Bagwell.

#30 El-P

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:16 AM

Anyway, he's a guy who needs his reputation restored along with Buff Bagwell.


Yep, totally agree. I've argued about Mero in another thread, and Buff Bagwell pre-neck injury was quite good and a really fun douchebag chickenshit heel.

#31 kjh

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:35 AM

At the time, Mero really wasn't all that hated by the sheet readers. In the PWTorch rankings for 1994 jdw posted a while back, he was ranked 83rd, comfortably inside the top 20 workers from the big two American companies. Mero worked hard to improve over the next couple of years and the sheet readers recognised that. Even when he was really green when he first entered WCW he got praise for portraying his gimmick well. Really the Mero hate was largely confined to people within the WWF jealous of his guaranteed contract and later the popularity of his wife, then retro hate for daring to speak out post Benoit.

#32 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 03:12 PM

I guess I stadn corrected, then. It must've taken on a life of its own somehow, because I've never encountered any group of fans who considered Badd a top 20 worker.

#33 tomk

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:28 PM

I would also add that Mero was one of the first wrestlers who had an active web presence. It was a bit before my time (I am a late technology adaptor) but I think he was a guy on the web maybe as early as 94/95. I don't know if he was on RSPW or a pre-RSPW AOL board , but he was a a guy (and probably the only guy) who was willing to intereact with fans over the web (and my sense was pretty open and honest in those interactions). For a while after he stopped, people still had positive feelings as a result. There was a point where there may have been a couple people invested in the whole "hypocrit" wouldn't do an angle with Diamond Gal because of his religous convictions that then went on to do the angles he did in the WWF. But in general between 97-00, he is a guy who people felt good vibes toward. I don't know who is still around from that period who could fill you in more.

#34 jdw

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 07:19 PM

I want to say it was either on Prodigy or on AOL GSW. I recall hearing about it, but if it was AOL GSW, he left before I got on there (late 1996). John

#35 Victator

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:43 PM

All I can think about Mero is how he really did throw his career away for his wife. I don't think he could have gotten a big run with Austin in 98 but with as much room as there was at the start of 98 he should of done more.

#36 Cox

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:50 PM

He was on Prodigy for sure. He used to make occasional appearances in the Prodigy wrestling chat room and I think he broke the news about going to WWF in the Prodigy chat room. He stopped hanging out as much in there when he went to WWF, but there was definitely a couple of month period where he'd show up to chat about things, really pushing the Christianity stuff hard at the time, which is funny considering how things wound up with him and Rena. :)

#37 kjh

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:03 AM

All I can think about Mero is how he really did throw his career away for his wife. I don't think he could have gotten a big run with Austin in 98 but with as much room as there was at the start of 98 he should of done more.


I think Mero did as well as could be expected in '98, given that he was never the same after rushing back from reconstructive knee surgery. The top guys (Austin, Foley, Hunter) had no respect for him and didn't want to work with him, so getting his wife over to be more popular than Foley or Hunter was the best thing for his career at the time.

#38 KB8

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:45 AM

Lord Steven Regal vs. Johnny B. Badd, Clash of the Champions XXV (11/10/93)

Regal vs. Badd was a fun match-up, not only because the wrestling was decent but because Badd was exactly the sort of commoner that his Lordship despised. This wasn't a particularly great match (it was completely devoid of a third act, if you care to think about wrestling in those terms), but for the life of me I can't figure out why Mero had such a bad rep as a worker. Seems like it was completely personal or disdain for the gimmick. He kinda reminds me of Zenk in that he had a look that people (read: sheet readers) don't want to like. A bit too bodybuilder-ish and a bit too pretty. Not to mention the tassles! Never a good thing if you want to get over with the sheet readers. Anyway, he's a guy who needs his reputation restored along with Buff Bagwell.


Watched this fairly recently and thought it was a blast. Recall Mero doing some fun stuff with the headlock and I loved how he waited almost the whole match to pay Regal back for that slap at the start. I actually bought Regal being legit KO'd for a second.

I hadn't seen a Mero match in years prior to watching this series on Will's Regal set. He's not a guy I had ever really heard much praise for as a worker before, but I came away from the matches with Regal thinking he was way better than a lot of people had given him credit for. I was probably pretty critical of him at one point as well, even though I don't remember exactly why.

Also agree that Bagwell gets a ton of undeserved shit. I haven't watched any douchebag heel Bagwell in ages, but all of the stuff I've seen from the '92-'95 period has been at least solid. He was a fine, if a bit green, bitpart player in a shit load of multi-man matches on the Dangerous Alliance set. By '95 when he was teaming with Patriot I thought he was definitely a good tag wrestler.

I should probably check out some weasly Bagwell at some point soon.

#39 El-P

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:52 AM

2011 : the year of the official rehabilitation of Marc Mero.

#40 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:08 AM

I guess it's a bad time to point out that the '94 Regal/Badd matches aren't put together well.




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