Chris Jericho's new book

[kjh]

Notice none of those guys are heavies. He worked a lot of guys who had little differences, but were all doing a Japanese or Mexican-influenced style that he understood.

Wasn't Jericho able to have decent matches with a wide variety of guys during his WCW TV title run? I'm sure ring rust and not knowing how to work WWE style played a part in his difficulties early on, but that doesn't completely explain why he had such a lame match with Sean Waltman on PPV, a guy he had much better matches with in WCW.

 

I think Jericho's difficulties had a lot to do with Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara leaving when they did. They were key supporters of his, even scripting Jericho to beat The Rock on the last Raw they wrote for the company, which was nixed when they handed in their notice. When they left, Jericho had a lot less people to bat for him.

[Loss]

The point is that the matches were worked in a different way. Jericho got the rep of not knowing what he was doing because he didn't know matches were worked that way. So babyfaces would be waiting for him to bump in succession, because that's what every heel in the promotion did, and he would just lay there because he didn't know this. It affected his matches and his reputation.

 

This is a separate argument than saying one style is better than another style. This is not saying Jericho was a bad worker, or that the WWF style is superior or inferior to another style. Just that it's different, and Jericho had to learn how it worked.

 

He himself says how would he know, as he never worked with Hogan, Savage, Sting, Luger or Nash in WCW. He had little experience working bigger guys in main-event style matches.

 

There aren't a huge amount of matches out there of Jericho facing tall guys in the 250-275 pound range prior to joining WWE.

 

In a match against Big Show, he wanted to do the Antonio Inoki/Andre the Giant short-arm scissors spot. He tried and ended up slipping off of Show. To try to cover for it, he slapped him hard in the face. Show apparently ended up so angry that he yanked the stereo out of his rental car.

 

He chalks up the X-Pac match to him trying too hard instead of going with his instincts. He had the idea of doing the Michaels flip into the turnbuckle and getting stuck there, where he would get Bronco bustered while hanging upside down. But he didn't go up far enough and the spot ended up looking terrible. Again, he blamed himself.

 

And yes, he does admit that Russo was his only advocate in the company and that his leaving did hurt, but that things got better when Brian Gewirtz, a big Jericho supporter, came on. He says a big point of contention was that Russo liked his WCW character and wanted him to continue in that vein while Vince wanted him to be more serious and threatening, and he was caught in the middle.

[rovert]

My review at Cageside.

 

Ignoring HHH and Stephanie being SH00T!married felt like a political move somehow. What other reason could there be?

Someone on F4W disputes this saying it was mentioned. Again I havent read it yet.

 

Jerome, that's really not it. There are all sorts of weird rules and intricacies not present in other promotions.

 

Loss alerted me to the fact that the review at that one spyware site gives an actual number for Jericho's inital WM18 payoff ($95,000) before he complained that HHH got five times as much and was given an additional check to make up for it. Jericho's book just says "five figures." This is the same website that posted quotes from the Benoit chapter in August before quickly pulling the article.

 

Be a little less obvious, dudes.

Did Chris's contradiction of what he said in the Larry King interview make the book?

 

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/8/11/161...aring-about-the

 

I am not Randazzo and hardly ever listen to wrestling shoots, but I'm pretty sure this is at least the fourth time I've heard someone tell that story (with different people in the Jericho and Rock roles) to illustrate "yeah at that point I (or some other hardluck putz) couldn't do anything right".

 

It's a great story, I'd use it too.

It also kind of plays into his career long trope of his debut match sucking in every promotion as written about in his first book.

 

I think Jericho's difficulties had a lot to do with Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara leaving when they did. They were key supporters of his, even scripting Jericho to beat The Rock on the last Raw they wrote for the company, which was nixed when they handed in their notice. When they left, Jericho had a lot less people to bat for him.

He also had the newsletter rep of the "next Shawn Michaels" coming in which is a kiss of death and something that rubs people up the wrong way.

[Bix]

I'd have to re-read the related sections, but I don't recall him saying at any point during the book that Triple H & Stephanie were really together, as it stuck out like a sore thumb during the section about how his plan for the WM18 buildup turned into what we saw. He just says that Triple H said his character was the kind of guy who would know his wife was cheating on him.

 

As far as the quotes that went public in August, the first and third ones in my post are definitely in there. The second I'd have to check for but I'd say it probably is since he tells stories along those lines.

[Strummer]

Make whatever argument about the style, but there is a patterned bumping style in WWE. Jericho mentioned how in WCW, wrestlers sold something by staying down, and in WWE, heels are expected to immediately get up and fall down again and again and again, to basically bump off of every single piece of babyface offense and get right back up.

well this does explain Demolition matches during their babyface reign. Hey I'm going to double ax handle you in the back like 60 times in a row so make sure you keep popping up to take another one

[jdw]

One of the things that you scratch your head over (as has been mentioned several times) is how Jericho wasn't told by several people in the WWF about the Grand WWF Theory Of Working.

 

This style wasn't invented when Jericho came in.

 

Ergo...

 

Other wrestlers came into the promotion and had to learn the style.

 

Ergo...

 

Someone told them when they came in how to work the style.

 

Why is it seemingly only Jericho got shat on for "not working right"?

 

I can see Arn & Tully coming in and knowing exactly "how to work", since Tully was bumping Shawn-style before Shawn even got in the business (in other words, Shawn didn't invent the shit). Arn had as well been bumping like a pinball in Crockett for Dusty and plenty of other heels. So these guys didn't need to learn it.

 

But Demolition came in as heels.

 

Triple H came in as a heel.

 

Benoit & Eddy came in as heels.

 

Regal came in as a heel.

 

Lots of guys came into the company over the past 5, 10, 15, 20 years that the Grand WWF Theory Of Working existed, and how many of them did we hear:

 

"Wrestler X doesn't know how to work"

 

Not "Wrestler X sucks"... but that there's a flaw in how he works?

 

I'm not going to say Chris was/is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he kinda-sorta adapted to working in a lot of places. Not saying he was great~! working in Mexico or Japan or Smokey or ECW or WCW, or against every different stylistical opponent he had... but I think it's safe to say he picked up on things enough to get by.

 

A slightly different example to think about:

 

"If you're that stiff with me again, I'll have Vince fire you."

 

I'm paraphrasing... it's the general thought that's important. It's the standing story that's been told for the last decade and a half of what Taker told Vader after their first match together. I was at the match, and it wasn't exactly like Leon treated Taker like he was Inoki or Cactus. Pretty standard Vader stuff, we were thinking it was light relative to what we'd seen out of him in the past... maybe not as light as against Hogan, but pretty mild shit.

 

But Taker told Vader the "right way to work" against him in the WWF.

 

It defies pretty much everything we know about the WWF over the past three decades to believe that not just *many* people in the company wouldn't take him instantly aside and tell him how to work in a forceful fashion, but that NO ONE would.

 

And it kind of defies all we know about Chris that he wouldn't listen at all to the hal dozen or so people who'd tell him:

 

You need to bump like Shawn/Tully/Flair.

 

I'm guessing in the book(s) that Chris gets across having a stuborn streak... but that stuborn? Didn't seem like he rocked the boat that much in WCW.

 

John

[Loss]

Not so much a stubborn streak, but an outspoken one who usually had no problem telling Vince his opinion. I suspect no one told him because they knew if he put the pieces together, he had the potential to threaten the spots of some people who were being pushed on top at the time. The longer he was in the dark, the longer he could be buried. I think the silence was deliberate.

[jdw]

There are all sorts of people to tell him about that, including the extremely nice guy The Rock who worked as both Heel and Face in the WWF by that point. Road Agents, other guys in the middle who had no love for guys like Trip at the top... his friend Benoit when he came in who seems to have "gotten it". Austin?

 

Lots of people in the WWF. Not all of them with top spots, or protective of the people in them. Lots of them who would know the Magic Way Of WWF Work.

 

Not a one (let alone 10) of them tells Jericho within a few weeks of getting there how to work?

 

John

[El-P]

he had the potential to threaten the spots of some people who were being pushed on top at the time.

Namely, HHH, who was just getting his very first main event push after years of carrying to Shawn Michaels bags. And HHH wasn't over as a main eventer in 1999 despite years of sustained push. Jericho came in as hot shit, people knew him from Nitro because he was the star of the show, a guy who was fresh, funny, had excellent matches, had shitloads of charisma. Jericho got the biggest debut in WWF of the decade with the Y2J hype, interrupting a Rock promo. Quite frankly, WWF could have put him right into a program with The Rock, and the audience would have bought it. Jericho would have made HHH look like a complete mid-carder with mediocre wrestling skills, no charisma, mediocre mic skills and boring matches from the get go. And all of a sudden, Jericho is feuding with X-Pac, losing on his first PPV, Ken Shamrock who was on its last leg and didn't mean shit anymore by then, and most of all, Chyna. Fucking Chyna. And he gets told he doesn't know how to work. Seriously. Meanwhile, It takes Stephy and Cactus Jack killing himself to finally put some heat on HHH. While Jericho is working matches with Chyna and the august talent, I guess a WWF style specialist, of the über worker Bob Holly. And soon enough, they put Jericho and Benoit together to rock the undercard, WCW style, I guess "not knowing how to work" didn't keep him from having the best match of the card each and everytime. And I guess they threw rookie Angle into the mix to learn them japanese style boys how to work "da" style too. Unless Jericho and Benoit were suppsoed to make him look good, which would be odd since Jericho was supposedly not a good worker. This is such obvious bullshit from the HHH camp it's funny.

[Victator]

By January there were like only three or four guys clearly ahead of him on the roster. Shamrock was still getting a big push before he got hurt. X-Pac was a sub at that ppv.

 

 

Loss does Jericho mention Mr.Hughes? I heard that Hughes was really pissing guys off at the time.

[sek69]

I guess since the book stops before his last return, there's no mention of HHH trying to undermine him again by openly mocking the "Save Us" promos to pretty much everyone in earshot backstage? It almost worked until Chris decided to become a modern day Bockwinkel.

 

I'm not usually a guy who buys into the whole internet train of thought that HHH is the most evil person ever, but man he sure did seem to take a special delight in fucking with Jericho at every opportunity.

[kjh]

The "doesn't know how to work" put down is actually fairly common within WWE. You mentioned Vader when he came in. Obviously Jericho is another example. Rob Van Dam got that label after he caused a few injuries with his risky Van Daminator move in 2001. Chris Kanyon got it for tearing down the house after a dark match with Shark Boy. CM Punk got it after a nervy tryout match. Triple H even attempted to propagate that myth about Chris Benoit before being forced to eat his words by Benoit rising to the occasion in his debut match. tomk cited the example of banged up "sober" old Eddy being unable to keep up with banged up, pill popping Kurt Angle. That's just off the top of my head, there's probably plenty more.

[El-P]

Well RVD *really* doesn't know how to work though. But that's another thing.

But yeah, all these are good exemples.

[Eduardo]

Wasn't DDP another guy that was labeled "doesn't know how to work" because he liked to the script his matches?

[Loss]

Scripting was an issue, but more than that, they didn't like the way DDP bumped on his side instead of flat on his back.

 

There is a HUGE emphasis in the WWE style on how heels bump. I think a heel that bumps well and at the time intervals they think a heel should will be seen as great even if they have absolutely nothing else going for them.

 

Of course, within a few months of taking flat back bumps, DDP was done, despite being made of teflon for years.

 

Namely, HHH, who was just getting his very first main event push after years of carrying to Shawn Michaels bags. And HHH wasn't over as a main eventer in 1999 despite years of sustained push. Jericho came in as hot shit, people knew him from Nitro because he was the star of the show, a guy who was fresh, funny, had excellent matches, had shitloads of charisma. Jericho got the biggest debut in WWF of the decade with the Y2J hype, interrupting a Rock promo. Quite frankly, WWF could have put him right into a program with The Rock, and the audience would have bought it. Jericho would have made HHH look like a complete mid-carder with mediocre wrestling skills, no charisma, mediocre mic skills and boring matches from the get go. And all of a sudden, Jericho is feuding with X-Pac, losing on his first PPV, Ken Shamrock who was on its last leg and didn't mean shit anymore by then, and most of all, Chyna. Fucking Chyna. And he gets told he doesn't know how to work. Seriously. Meanwhile, It takes Stephy and Cactus Jack killing himself to finally put some heat on HHH. While Jericho is working matches with Chyna and the august talent, I guess a WWF style specialist, of the über worker Bob Holly. And soon enough, they put Jericho and Benoit together to rock the undercard, WCW style, I guess "not knowing how to work" didn't keep him from having the best match of the card each and everytime. And I guess they threw rookie Angle into the mix to learn them japanese style boys how to work "da" style too. Unless Jericho and Benoit were suppsoed to make him look good, which would be odd since Jericho was supposedly not a good worker. This is such obvious bullshit from the HHH camp it's funny.

You're being overly dramatic, even if you do make good points:

 

* Jericho was not "the star of the show" on Nitro. He was a midcard act that people on the Internet liked that showed enough personality that it was obvious he could go further with the right push. He also showed good instincts for getting a strong heel reaction and it was obvious he had a future. That's a compliment. But at no point was he the highest ratings draw or anything like that. If anything, during the time period Jericho was peaking in WCW, the stars of the show were Goldberg and Flair.

 

* HHH's push was going to happen whether Jericho came in or not. He had a good rep and he was a homegrown creation who Vince liked.

 

* Jericho ended up not getting a program with Rock because, by his own admission, he was missing little touches in the debut to get himself over. He made silly facial expressions which are fine for a midcard heel, but not for someone being portrayed as a threat to Rock. He played up the comedy too much and the aggression too little. These are all things that he himself will admit.

 

* Jericho praises Bob Holly, because those matches are where his rep turned around, because Holly was one of the only guys who didn't care if he got stiffed, as he would just give it right back. By the time of the Benoit matches, things were much better for Jericho and he was generally considered to be on the right path.

 

* "He doesn't know how to work" means different things to you and me than it does to WWE. Does everything look crisp and connect? Does the heat sustain? Does the guy's opponent look good in winning (or losing)? The focus is a lot less on variety of moves and fans popping for the entrance, and more on laying out the matches in a way that WWE thinks is logical and steadily builds heat. There's also a lot of focus on little things, like the proper way to do Irish whips (yes), which Pat Patterson actually taught him. The WWE style is less physical than some other styles, but it's probably more mental than some too. I know the counterpoint to this, and you could make a million comments about HHH's work not making him good by these standards. But these are all problems Jericho had coming in.

 

* Angle was not put with Benoit and Jericho to teach them how to work. That's ridiculous. There's no way you believe that.

 

* This stuff did not come from the "HHH camp" as much as it came from the "Vince camp". Jericho said most of Vince's complaints about his work were from Vince himself watching him from Gorilla.

 

I am not saying HHH played no role in him getting to the next level. I am saying that ultimately, Vince was the one who kept him from getting to the next level.

 

JDW: As he describes it in the book, the reason no one told Jericho is because he never asked anyone for help. This is part of the reason he got the rep he had, because when laying out matches with other wrestlers, he talked about how things were done in WCW, but never others for opinions or guidance on how things were done in WWE. Pat Patterson eventually explained the style to him and took him under his wing, critiquing his matches side-by-side, etc., but that was after he approached Patterson and asked him for help. He also asked HHH to shoot straight with him on why he had heat, and HHH was very blunt about why. There is a mindset in the company that you don't go to new guys and volunteer your help, but that they should be asking you. And with someone like Rock, he was homegrown and probably wouldn't get the challenges in shifting style the way others would. Austin probably had to make some minor adjustments to his ringwork too, but he didn't come in working primarily a Mexican/Japanese-influenced style. I'm not sure that there was anyone in the company -- aside from maybe Waltman who even this late was considered the guy that if you couldn't have a good match with him, you couldn't have a good one with anyone -- who would have understood that.

[kjh]

* Jericho ended up not getting a program with Rock because, by his own admission, he was missing little touches in the debut to get himself over. He made silly facial expressions which are fine for a midcard heel, but not for someone being portrayed as a threat to Rock. He played up the comedy too much and the aggression too little. These are all things that he himself will admit.

Even with these flaws, Jericho was still the best person to have a program with The Rock at the time, given WWE's dearth of quality heels. The writing was already on the wall with Billy Gunn's push. The only thing the Bulldog had going for him at the time was that he was married to a Hart.

 

This is part of the reason he got the rep he had, because when laying out matches with other wrestlers, he talked about how things were done in WCW, but never others for opinions or guidance on how things were done in WWE.

Sometimes it gets ridiculous though. Like Matt Hardy complaining to the agents to get Dean Malenko and Perry Saturn to follow his match layout.

[El-P]

You're being overly dramatic, even if you do make good points:

I am a drama queen, you should know that by now.

 

* Jericho was not "the star of the show" on Nitro. He was a midcard act that people on the Internet liked that showed enough personality that it was obvious he could go further with the right push. He also showed good instincts for getting a strong heel reaction and it was obvious he had a future. That's a compliment. But at no point was he the highest ratings draw or anything like that. If anything, during the time period Jericho was peaking in WCW, the stars of the show were Goldberg and Flair.

True, although at the time, when you watched Nitro, you could see who was *the* guy who had star written all over him, and it was Jericho. Flair was gone fro most of 98 which was when Jericho developped into a strong act. I know Goldberg was the big star, but personnally, I hated him and his act back then. I thought it was boring shit, squashing jobbers on Nitro every week with Heenan screaming "THE MAN" was getting on my nerves quite a bit. But hey, what do I know. Jericho and Goldberg really stuck out on Nitro.

 

* Jericho ended up not getting a program with Rock because, by his own admission, he was missing little touches in the debut to get himself over. He made silly facial expressions which are fine for a midcard heel, but not for someone being portrayed as a threat to Rock. He played up the comedy too much and the aggression too little. These are all things that he himself will admit.

Because The Rock didn't make silly facial expressions at all. Jericho is a bit hard on himself.

 

* Jericho praises Bob Holly, because those matches are where his rep turned around, because Holly was one of the only guys who didn't care if he got stiffed, as he would just give it right back. By the time of the Benoit matches, things were much better for Jericho and he was generally considered to be on the right path.

Well, having to work against Bob Holly to be considered a good worker is kind of ironic to me.

 

* "He doesn't know how to work" means different things to you and me than it does to WWE.

To say the least.

 

The focus is a lot less on variety of moves and fans popping for the entrance, and more on laying out the matches in a way that WWE thinks is logical and steadily builds heat. There's also a lot of focus on little things, like the proper way to do Irish whips (yes), which Pat Patterson actually taught him. The WWE style is less physical than some other styles, but it's probably more mental than some too.

The modern WWE style is unwatchable to me actually so... I wonder when things became so micromanaged to the point everyone had to work a certain way.

 

I know the counterpoint to this, and you could make a million comments about HHH's work not making him good by these standards.

Well, indeed.

 

* Angle was not put with Benoit and Jericho to teach them how to work. That's ridiculous. There's no way you believe that.

Of course not, it was a silly joke on my part.

 

* This stuff did not come from the "HHH camp" as much as it came from the "Vince camp". Jericho said most of Vince's complaints about his work were from Vince himself watching him from Gorilla.

The Vince/Jericho relationship seems fascinating.

[kjh]

Add Goldberg to the list of successful wrestlers WWE deemed didn't know how to work.

[tomk]

We can get an accurate timeline for Jericho's programs in WWE at online world of wrestling:

 

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/prof...is-jericho.html

 

From when he came in to first programs with HHH:

 

World Wrestling Federation - Y2J

 

Summer 1999: A mysterious "Count-down to the Millenium" clock appeared on a weekly basis but nobody knew what it was..

August 9, 1999 - RAW: The "Count Down" finally ran out and Chris Jericho debuted as Y2J and interrupted The Rock..

August 16, 1999 - RAW: Chris Jericho appeared again, this time interrupting The Undertaker & The Big Show..

~~~Jericho's messege was that RAW had become boring and needed to be rescued, calling himself the "Y2J problem"..

~~~Jericho said that he was there to save the World Wrestling Federation and save everybodys jobs at the same time..

August 22, 1999 - Summerslam: Y2J made his WWF PPV debut, interrupting a Roaddog promo and cutting a promo himself..

August 26, 1999 - Smackdown!: Road Dogg defeated Chris Jericho by Disqualification..

September 13, 1999 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Gotch Gracy in a Steel Cage match..

September 16, 1999 - SD!: Curtis Hughes beat Ken Shamrock by DQ with a masked referee named El Dopo (Howard Finkel)..

September 20, 1999 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Billy Gunn..

September 23, 1999 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho beat Ken Shamrock in a First Blood Match with help from Curtis Hughes..

September 26, 1999 - Unforgiven: X-Pac defeated Chris Jericho w/Curtis Hughes via disqualification (Referee: Tom Pritchard)..

September 27, 1999 - RAW: The Big Show defeated Chris Jericho by DQ..

October 2, 1999 - Rebellion: Chris Jericho defeated Road Dogg ..

October 4, 1999 - RAW: The Rock defeated Chris Jericho..

October 10, 1999 - HEAT: The Dudley Boyz defeated Chris Jericho & Curtis Hughes..

October 11, 1999 - RAW: The Headbangers defeated Chris Jericho & Curtis Hughes when Y2J turned on Hughes..

October 14, 1999 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho defeated Curtis Hughes with help from Howard Finkel..

October 24, 1999 - HEAT: WWF European Champion D-Lo Brown defeated Chris Jericho..

October 25, 1999 - RAW: Chyna & D-Lo Brown defeated Chris Jericho & Steven Richards..

October 28, 1999 - Smackdown!: Steven Richards defeated Chris Jericho..

November 4, 1999 - Smackdown!: The Godfather defeated Chris Jericho..

November 14, 1999 - Survivor Series: Chyna defeated Chris Jericho to retain the IC title..

November 15, 1999 - RAW: Gangrel defeated Chris Jericho by DQ..

November 18, 1999 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho defeated Mark Henry..

November 22, 1999 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated The Godfather..

November 25, 1999 - Smackdown!: WWF World Champion The Big Show defeated Chris Jericho..

December 2, 1999 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho defeated Mankind..

December 9, 1999 - Smackdown!: Road Dogg defeated Chris Jericho..

December 12, 1999 - Armageddon: Chris Jericho defeated Chyna to capture the IC title..

December 13, 1999 - RAW: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated X-Pac..

December 16, 1999 - Smackdown!: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Albert..

December 20, 1999 - RAW: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated The Godfather...

December 23, 1999 - Smackdown!: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Crash Holly by DQ..

December 27, 1999 - RAW: Al Snow defeated Chris Jericho by DQ..

December 30, 1999 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho vs. Chyna ended in a double pinfall draw..

~~~therefor as the results Chyna & Chris Jericho are co-holders of the Intercontinental title..

January 6, 2000 - Smackdown!: Hardcore Holly defeated Chris Jericho in a Non-title match..

January 10, 2000 - RAW: Crash Holly & Hardcore Holly defeated Chris Jericho & Chyna..

January 13, 2000 - Smackdown!: Kane defeated Chris Jericho in a Non-title match..

January 17, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Rikishi by Disqualification..

January 20, 2000 - Smackdown: Too Cool & Rikishi defeated Chris Jericho & Chyna & Hardcore Holly..

January 23, 2000 - Royal Rumble: Chris Jericho defeated Chyna and Hardcore Holly..

January 24, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Hardcore Holly to retain the Intercontinental title..

January 27, 2000 - Smackdown!: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Crash Holly..

January 31, 2000 - RAW: X-Pac defeated Chris Jericho in a Non-title match..

February 3, 2000 - Smackdown!: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Gangrel..

February 7, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Viscera by Disqualification..

February 10, 2000 - Smackdown!: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Crash Holly in a No DQ match..

February 20, 2000 - HEAT: Intercontinental Champion Chris Jericho defeated Jeff Hardy..

February 21, 2000 - RAW: Kurt Angle & Davey Boy Smith defeated Chris Jericho & Chyna..

February 27, 2000 - No Way Out: Kurt Angle defeated Chris Jericho to win the IC title..

February 28, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Perry Saturn..

March 6, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Intercontinental Champion Kurt Angle by DQ..

March 12, 2000 - HEAT: Chris Jericho defeated Dean Malenko..

March 13, 2000 - RAW: Intercontinental Champion Kurt Angle defeated Tazz and Chris Jericho in a 3-WAY.

March 20, 2000 - RAW: Chris Jericho defeated Chris Benoit..

March 26, 2000 - HEAT: Chris Jericho & Tazz defeated Edge & Christian..

March 27, 2000 - RAW: Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero defeated Chris Jericho & Chyna..

March 30, 2000 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho defeated Eddie Guerrero by DQ..

April 2, 2000 - Wrestlemania 16: Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit fought in a 2-falls match for both the IC & Euro titles..

~~~Benoit beat Jericho to win Angle's Intercontinental Title | Jericho beat Benoit to win Angle's European Title..

April 3, 2000 - RAW: Eddie Guerrero defeated Chris Jericho to win the WWF European title..

April 9, 2000 - HEAT: Viscera defeated Chris Jericho..

April 10, 2000 - RAW: European Champion Eddie Guerrero defeated Chris Jericho..

April 17, 2000 - RAW: World Heavyweight Champion Triple H defeated Chris Jericho by reverse decision..

~~~~Later that night Road Dogg & X-Pac & Triple H defeated Chris Jericho & The Acolytes..

April 20, 2000 - Smackdown!: Chris Jericho defeated The Rock in a Lumberjack match..

April 24, 2000 - RAW: Triple H & Chris Benoit defeated The Rock & Chris Jericho..

A couple quick points.

 

-I too am interested in what Jericho has to say about the Curtis Hughes period.

-Outisde of Hughes he really doesn't get any programs with true heavys untill Godfather

-I somewhat rolled my eyes at Jerome's "immediate threat to HHH" point, but looking at the dates that feels more than accurate. HHH and Chyna had feuded for about a month in 99 and they ended up back together...they turned Chyna face in Sep 00, but she still was accompanying heel HHH from Sep-Oct. Jericho shows up in August, while HHH was still a guy who the fed didn't have faith in pushing as a solo heel act without Chyna till close to the end of October. The Rumble Streetfight with Foley that made HHH into a made man wasn't till January of 00.

-Jericho isn't in a program with HHH untill 3 months after the NJ 3+ different one show up.

-I'd be curious to know exact date that Laurinitis shows up to "update/modernize" the WWE style.

[El-P]

Add me to the "interested about Curtis Hughes" crowd. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything positive about Hughes. The irony is that Hughes was the butler of HHH for a couple of weeks in January 1997 before something happened again and Hughes was dropped.

I believe Laurinitis was grabbed as soon as WCW was bought, I'm not sure when he replaced Ross as talent relation big shot though.

[Loss]

Laurinitis replaced Ross sometime in '04 or '05. There isn't much about him in the book, really, nor is there much about Ross.

 

Jericho claimed Hughes was narcoleptic and would sometimes fall asleep at ringside. Russo had the idea to pair them and Jericho was less than enthused about it. Vince wouldn't let him call him "Curtis Huge", because he had dropped so much weight that he and Jericho were nearly the same size. Jericho hated that he wouldn't dress the part.

[Loss]

Also worth mentioning: Bubba Ray Dudley was so badly concussed in TLC 4 that he forgot how to climb a ladder. Jericho is laid out selling giving instructions to him. He also kept asking if anyone saw his mom, saying they were supposed to see each other after the show. His mom had passed away years earlier.

[jdw]

-I somewhat rolled my eyes at Jerome's "immediate threat to HHH" point, but looking at the dates that feels more than accurate. HHH and Chyna had feuded for about a month in 99 and they ended up back together...they turned Chyna face in Sep 00, but she still was accompanying heel HHH from Sep-Oct. Jericho shows up in August, while HHH was still a guy who the fed didn't have faith in pushing as a solo heel act without Chyna till close to the end of October. The Rumble Streetfight with Foley that made HHH into a made man wasn't till January of 00.

 

I think one of the key things in the timeline to remember is:

 

* Austin got Trip's push in 1996, and ran with it

 

* Trip "won" his feud with Rock in 1998... but a few months later Rock was the #2 star in the company

 

* Foley out of the blue takes things to the next level in his feud with Rock in late 1998/early 1999

 

That's all bubbling through Trip's brain when Jericho comes in, and then on the same PPV debut as Jericho:

 

* Austin doesn't want to put over Trip, and instead puts over Foley

 

Ouch.

 

Trip gets his the next night (and Foley gets cut off, though Trip wasn't pulling the strong there)... then promptly bombs *twice* as champ. Vince gets a pop beating him, then panics over ratings declines in his second run by putting the belt on Show.

 

That's a lot of shit hitting the Trip Fan was one time, right as The Next Big Y2J Thing is hitting the promotion.

 

And Jericho made for an easy target, especially as the promotion was panicing a bit with Austin out. They didn't fully "find themselves" until the start of the year with Trip-Steph combining into a heel unit, with Vince, Foley and Rock (three of the four biggest stars in the promotion at the time) being lined to put Trip and Steph over.

 

John

[El-P]

Also worth mentioning: Bubba Ray Dudley was so badly concussed in TLC 4 that he forgot how to climb a ladder. Jericho is laid out selling giving instructions to him. He also kept asking if anyone saw his mom, saying they were supposed to see each other after the show. His mom had passed away years earlier.

Holy shit... That's sad.

[Cox]

Jericho claimed Hughes was narcoleptic and would sometimes fall asleep at ringside. Russo had the idea to pair them and Jericho was less than enthused about it. Vince wouldn't let him call him "Curtis Huge", because he had dropped so much weight that he and Jericho were nearly the same size. Jericho hated that he wouldn't dress the part.

I'm guessing the Hughes/Finkel stable is what Jericho was referring to when he talked of being too comedic early in his WWE run, right? I mean, as entertaining as I thought Finkel was as Jericho's WWE Ralphus, there was no way he was ever going to get past the midcard being in a comedy stable wtih Mr. Hughes and The Fink.