Chris Jericho's new book

[Guest kowking]

I can understand where both sides are coming from, but I think one thing that absolutely needs to be considered is that Vince Russo's booking wasn't helping a lot of guys in the company. His booking was a big reason why there was such a lack of good heels,

 

The WWF was never a place that had “good heels”. They had good heel managers. As such Mr. Mcmahon was as over (if not more over ) and as effective (if not more effective) than Cornette in the early nineties, Heenan in the 80s or Grand Wizard before that.

 

any sort of threat Jericho posed to HHH had more to do with the fact that Jericho got over quickly whereas HHH, despite being pushed strongly, generated crowd indifference until the wedding angle and subsequent Steph heel turn.

I think the Stephany pairing (while significant to keeping him on top ) wasn’t as important in terms of him catching on with the audience (ending crowd indifference) as the Cactus Jack series.

 

On one hand, Jericho was similar to Vader in that both made huge splashes in their first couple of WWF apperances. But when compared to Vader, Jericho had much more long-term success. I think part of that is Vader's style just wasn't suited for WWF/E to begin with, and his tendency to work stiff was what helped get him over as a monster in WCW in first place. Jericho, on the other hand, learned to adapt, just as he did everywhere else he went. Whether you are a fan of a certain style or not, you can't just take the same style you like working with you wherever you go, because every promotion does things differently.

You can criticize Vader for an over reliance on formula, you can criticize for mic work, there are lots of criticisms one can make about Vader. But unwillingness to adapt to different styles is ridiculous criticism. Vader is a guy who adapted his formula to Mexico, adapted to WCW, adapted to AJPW, adapted to CWA, adapted to UWFi, and adapted to WWF. I’d say he was better at adapting to the WWF than he was at adapting to UWFi. You can watch Vader work as a WWF style heel opposite Ahmed Johnson and compare it to other WWF heels ( Golddust, HHH, etc, opposite Ahmed). His Fatal Four Way WWF match is probably the best multiperson title match in the WWF, and pretty much a Vader one man WWF heeling showcase. The WWF in the nineties was not a fed that booked heels on top long term. You had a run on top and then you were cycled out. The disappointment with Vader in the WWF isn’t that he couldn’t adjust or that he wasn’t over. Disappointment was in the booking and that he was a guy who could have been having showcase main events anywhere and instead was cycled out and doing nothing.

 

What are the good/great matches he had in Mexico? I don't know anything about his career down there except he beat Canek for the UWA title.

[kjh]

Well I was there when he did it and I can tell you that by the next time WWE had came to my town, it was a completely different show. Some of the guys were doing the indy stuff better than indy guys could, but after that, it was never the same.

There's probably good reason for that.

[Al]

The WWF was never a place that had “good heels”. They had good heel managers. As such Mr. Mcmahon was as over (if not more over ) and as effective (if not more effective) than Cornette in the early nineties, Heenan in the 80s or Grand Wizard before that.

WWEClassics.com aired Tuesday In Texas this month. I gotta say, Jake Roberts in late '91 took WWF heeling to a new plane of existance. Holy shit. For about 6 months, Roberts was perhaps the most effective heel WWF ever had.

[Strummer]

at the time I remember thinking "This can't be happening in the WWF" It's a shame that the WWF wasn't really interested in building around heels at the time because Jake should have had a run on top and fought all the top babyfaces. I'm pretty sure the WWF caught grief for the snake bite angle and Elizabeth getting slapped so they kind of toned down Jake's character at the begining of 92. Jake/Macho deserved a more proper blowoff than a sub 10 minute match on a FOX edition of SNME

[artDDP]

at the time I remember thinking "This can't be happening in the WWF" It's a shame that the WWF wasn't really interested in building around heels at the time because Jake should have had a run on top and fought all the top babyfaces. I'm pretty sure the WWF caught grief for the snake bite angle and Elizabeth getting slapped so they kind of toned down Jake's character at the begining of 92. Jake/Macho deserved a more proper blowoff than a sub 10 minute match on a FOX edition of SNME

FWIW, I remember reading some press criticism of the snake bite angle at the time, especially because it was airing on Saturday mornings, censored or not. I don't remember where or from who I read this but I have read that the damn snake did actually bite and wouldn't let go.

[sek69]

I remember watching it when it happened, it certainly did bite him for real and wasn't censored. I don't know how true it is, but I think Jake said later the cobra (devenomized) they used for the angle got freaked out being in front of such a big crowd and wouldn't let go of Savage's arm.

[flyonthewall2983]

Jake talked about it on the Pick Your Poison DVD, said he was trying to shake it off of Randy. I read something that said the snake died soon after.

[Al]

at the time I remember thinking "This can't be happening in the WWF" It's a shame that the WWF wasn't really interested in building around heels at the time because Jake should have had a run on top and fought all the top babyfaces. I'm pretty sure the WWF caught grief for the snake bite angle and Elizabeth getting slapped so they kind of toned down Jake's character at the begining of 92. Jake/Macho deserved a more proper blowoff than a sub 10 minute match on a FOX edition of SNME

From August '91 to April '92 Jake had an aborted feud with the Ultimate Warrior, feuded with Randy Savage and then had a brief feud with the Undertaker before quitting the company. Three top faces before Roberts took off. Can't really do much better than that.