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Best Black Wrestler ever


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#41 MJH

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:58 AM

You'd've thought someone would've pushed a black wrestler (or a few) hard in the wake of Jackie Robinson or something, though, right? Hell, I'm amazed I haven't heard of a guy working as Jackie Luther/King.

#42 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:15 AM

Dale Martin/Joint Promotions probably pushed the most black wrestlers of any territory in the 70s.

#43 smkelly

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:26 AM

You'd've thought someone would've pushed a black wrestler (or a few) hard in the wake of Jackie Robinson or something, though, right? Hell, I'm amazed I haven't heard of a guy working as Jackie Luther/King.

There have been Abraham Washington and Black Jesus, though.

#44 Graham Crackers

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:45 AM

I thought the tradition of wrestling promoters refusing to push black wrestlers started as a response to Jack Johnson in boxing. Didn't the success of the Gotch-Hackenschmidt coincide with the Jack Johnson title reign? The Comiskey Park battle came a year after the "Fight of the Century" between Johnson and Jeffries. Promoters knew that in wrestling they could always be sure there would be a white champion and as black athletes became more active in other spots I have no doubt that racist promoters wanted to maintain that tradition.

#45 El-P

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:17 AM

If Flair were black, would he still be the Flair we know today? I mean, in other sports athletic ability transcended the race barrier in the 70s when Flair first broke into the business. Flair really broke out in the 80s when the race barrier was further pushed back. Could working quality outshine racism in America in the 1980s to a Flair like level?


I don't think so. How many territories had black stars headlining apart from Mid-south ? I can't see a black wrestler becoming Ric Flair in the 80's. There wasn't even a place for black transitionnal champion, like Butch Reed probably could have been.
Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?

#46 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:41 AM

Dale Martin/Joint Promotions probably pushed the most black wrestlers of any territory in the 70s.


Off the top of my head, Clive Myers, Honeyboy Zimba, Johnny Kwango, Johnny Kincaid, Dave Bond, Kid Chocolate, Lenny Hurst, Jim Moser and Caswell Martin. That's not counting the Indian and Pakistani wrestlers they pushed, either, which you don't see much of in other territories.

#47 Negro Suave

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:45 AM

I thought the tradition of wrestling promoters refusing to push black wrestlers started as a response to Jack Johnson in boxing. Didn't the success of the Gotch-Hackenschmidt coincide with the Jack Johnson title reign? The Comiskey Park battle came a year after the "Fight of the Century" between Johnson and Jeffries. Promoters knew that in wrestling they could always be sure there would be a white champion and as black athletes became more active in other spots I have no doubt that racist promoters wanted to maintain that tradition.



This was my undestanding as well. I've also thought because of this there is no tradition that can be traced to the black community as far as this particular brand of entertainment. It really is one of the onlyforms of entertainment that doesn't have a strong black presence as far as america goes. And really that is as far as it goes, most other countries have their own tradition and africa goes by way of europe with not as many african wrestlers even.

#48 Jingus

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:55 PM

Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?

Booker T, when he was doing the King Booka gimmick. The Rock, if you count a half-Samoan as black. Bobby Lashley, if you count the ECW belt as a "world title".

#49 El-P

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:56 AM

Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?

Booker T, when he was doing the King Booka gimmick. The Rock, if you count a half-Samoan as black. Bobby Lashley, if you count the ECW belt as a "world title".


Booker got the World Title ? Ok then, so he's the only one. The Rock doesn't count. And the ECW belt was not even on the level of the old IC belt.

#50 Johnny Sorrow

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:15 AM

Why doesn't the Rock count? Not black enough?

#51 Victator

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:32 AM

At the time Lashley was ECW champ it was equal to the other titles. Hell during Show's reign it was above the World belt.

#52 El-P

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:48 AM

Why doesn't the Rock count? Not black enough?


The Rock is seen as a samoan. I know it's absurd anyway, since there's no such thing as race, but that's the way it is, he's really more seen as part of the samoan family than anything else.

So anyway, WWE had to wait for the 2000's to have a black champion. I don't think Flair could have been what he's been if he had been black, sadly.

#53 Negro Suave

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:13 AM

Why doesn't the Rock count? Not black enough?


The Rock is seen as a samoan. I know it's absurd anyway, since there's no such thing as race, but that's the way it is, he's really more seen as part of the samoan family than anything else.

So anyway, WWE had to wait for the 2000's to have a black champion. I don't think Flair could have been what he's been if he had been black, sadly.


Think you are splitting hairs with the racial division there. There may be some people that have an easier time accepting him as Samoan rather than black but this smacks of the "but not too black" division we see all too much. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, The Rock, all not really black enough for some people but that's just silly.

#54 El-P

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:20 AM

Think you are splitting hairs with the racial division there. There may be some people that have an easier time accepting him as Samoan rather than black but this smacks of the "but not too black" division we see all too much. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, The Rock, all not really black enough for some people but that's just silly.


Mariah Carey is black ? Well color me stunned.

I agree it is silly, but it's still how people thinks. I personnally couldn't care less.

Just thinking about something, Ahmed Johnson, if not for injuries (his and the ones he gave other workers) and egos, could easily have been the equivalent of Goldberg. He was over like hell at one point.

#55 Negro Suave

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:46 AM

Think you are splitting hairs with the racial division there. There may be some people that have an easier time accepting him as Samoan rather than black but this smacks of the "but not too black" division we see all too much. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, The Rock, all not really black enough for some people but that's just silly.


Mariah Carey is black ? Well color me stunned.

I agree it is silly, but it's still how people thinks. I personnally couldn't care less.

Just thinking about something, Ahmed Johnson, if not for injuries (his and the ones he gave other workers) and egos, could easily have been the equivalent of Goldberg. He was over like hell at one point.


Yeah Mariah is like a fourth. kind of the same level as Jeter.

If ahmed had stayed healthy and really took to the WWE main event style. (and they got him a good manager while sending him to speech classes) he could have been a world champion. I know I was a huge fan of his before I became a smart. He had a great look... tiger driver is a visually dominating move and looking at some of his Japan work.. he could definately leave his feet.

#56 Jingus

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:30 PM

Think you are splitting hairs with the racial division there. There may be some people that have an easier time accepting him as Samoan rather than black but this smacks of the "but not too black" division we see all too much. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, The Rock, all not really black enough for some people but that's just silly.

The thing is, how big a percentage of your ancestry needs to be African in order to be considered truly "black"? Logically, you'd need over 50%, right? Rock doesn't have that. As far as I know, his mother is pureblood Samoan. And looking at his father, Rocky Johnson is light-skinned enough that he obviously has some European heritage in his family tree. So Rock's genetic makeup is less than half black; why the insistence that he's still generally black overall?

Same thing with the other people you mentioned. These folks look like they had one black grandparent and three grandparents of other colors, if not going all the way back to great-grandparents. Why does our society have this weird obsession with calling someone like that an "African-American", when obviously the majority of their ancestors aren't from Africa?

Personally, I think it goes back to the old "one drop" rule during slavery. That is, any person whom you could tell had so much as one drop of African blood could be legally counted as black, and thus owned as a slave. This was instituted so that offspring of a slave and a white would still be counted as a slave, and their offspring, and their offspring's offspring. It was a pretty evil philosophy which was undertaken solely for financial reasons, yet somehow it's managed to hang on even up til today. Thus, a 90% white fellow like the comedian Sinbad is still somehow deemed "black" by the public.

Mariah Carey is black ? Well color me stunned.

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#57 goodhelmet

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:05 PM

One of my old bosses said it best... you are what your daddy is. Rock's black.

#58 Cox

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:14 PM

One of my old bosses said it best... you are what your daddy is. Rock's black.

That's strange, I used to live with two Jewish girls, and SLL or Bix can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but in the Jewish faith, you are considered Jewish if your mother is Jewish, which makes Rock a Samoan. Or Jewish, I'm not quite sure.

#59 JazeUSA

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:40 PM

well, i cant guess on older wrestler from before around 84 or so as thats when i began watching wrestling, but id have to go with these guys as my personal favorite black wrestlers: 1-Rock 2-Ron Simmons 3-Booker t 4-Butch Reed 5-Abdullah The Butcher (i agree w/ Goodhelmet, Rocks daddy's black so imo he is as well)

#60 Jingus

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:12 PM

The "what's yo daddy" line of eligibility seems rather sexist and patriarchal. Acting like the mother's contribution doesn't matter is certainly not fair.




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