CM Punk: Greatest Promo Ever

[goodhelmet]

Maybe. Maybe not. I think that is why this is getting so much play because he executed it so well that we don't know. We just sit here and eagerly await the end result.

 

As for the Charlie Brown skit, that applied when Punk was Straight Edge Jesus or when he originally cracked Cena with the chair. It will only apply now if Punk doesn't get his title shot at the MITB PPV.

[jdw]

So this is the Greatest Promo Ever if all it does it lead to Punk getting his title shot at the MITB PPV?

 

That's a pretty low threshold for GPE.

 

My comment on Lucy and the Football is more along the lines of:

 

* no one thinks the WWE would let Punk go "shooting" (scripted or unscripted) if he wasn't sticking around the company long term

 

* which means that even if he leaves, it's the old Danielson fake-leave thing again

 

* which means that They Have Really Big Plans for Our Hero Punk

 

Do we all agree on #1 & #2?

 

If we do, my point is that that third item isn't going to be as Big Of A Deal as folks think.

 

Take a step back and dream up what would be a Really Big Deal.

 

Mania against Rock?

 

No happening since that's Cena, and making it a threeway only makes it a muted Big Deal: Punk gets invited to dinner, but Cena and Rock are the big guys and Punk is the kiddy involved.

 

Mania against Taker and ending The Streak?

 

That's a Big Deal. Happening? Honestly? You're kidding, right?

 

So go down the list of other potential Big Deals, and how quickly do we get to the point where they're not really a Big Deal and instead just the same old shit the company has been rolling out for the past few years.

 

My thought is that by the time we get to #3 on the Really Big Deal list, we're already at the level of the same old shit they've been doing.

 

 

John

[jdw]

Mitchell linked to this in his forum in a thread on great promos:

 

 

John

[Bix]

Keep in mind that it's not clear when he's actually leaving.

 

As I kinda said in my blog post, enough people had enough suspension of disbelief for the first time in such a long time that it's a big deal just for that.

 

He was able to maneuver politically to get this to happen, which is a big deal, especially since they just let him go off on his own.

 

It was a the best delivered promo on TV in years. That's a big deal.

 

We don't know exactly what happens next. They have a bunch of ways to go. Even the most predictable route (Punk wins the title, Raw MITB winner beats him for it immediately, Cena stays because Punk didn't leave with the belt), is a great angle and a memorable exit. Given the lineup in the Raw MITB match, that would mean either Rey getting a renewed push or Alex Riley getting the rocket strapped to him since he's been so over. It would be a good way to get his push going further in addition to all of the MITB backstory you could throw in with Punk.

[goodhelmet]

The execution of the promo was what people are referring to. Bix summed up its effectiveness at cageside seats. You talked about Rock and Taker but you left out Austin which is a realistic scenario since Austin has hinted at a return to the ring. That could be a pretty big fucking deal.

 

If nothing happens after MITB, Punk goes away, comes back, goes back to midcard purgatory, so what? For one night, he gave a voice, if just for a few minutes, for those of us who have been ignored or scoffed at. For one night, hardcores like me and Alvarez, casuals like you, and performers past and present were buzzing. We are having fun trying to connect the dots. When was current wrestling so much fun?

[Sean Liska]

RAW wasn't delayed last night, or we would have heard about that promo early, and we had live spoilers for the second show. They cut to the shot of the camera next to him right before he looked at it and said he was breaking the fourth wall, and right before he turned to it and said hello to Colt. It would also make sense that the line about Stephanie and HHH was the go-home line, since you can't really follow that. So I'm pretty skeptical of the PWI thing about Punk just winging it.

[jdw]

Keep in mind that it's not clear when he's actually leaving.

Or that he'll even stay gone for long.

 

As I kinda said in my blog post, enough people had enough suspension of disbelief for the first time in such a long time that it's a big deal just for that.

People has suspension of disbelief when Danielsen was "fired" and took indy bookings. I think a lot of us jaded fucks knew he'd be back, sooner rather than later.

 

 

He was able to maneuver politically to get this to happen, which is a big deal, especially since they just let him go off on his own.

I'm not really buynig that he "maneuvered politically" to get to shoot on the WWE if the WWE didn't want him to shoot on the WWE.

 

 

It was a the best delivered promo on TV in years.

It's a good promo.

 

 

We don't know exactly what happens next. They have a bunch of ways to go. Even the most predictable route (Punk wins the title, Raw MITB winner beats him for it immediately, Cena stays because Punk didn't leave with the belt), is a great angle and a memorable exit.

That leads to... what?

 

Shouldn't the GPE lead to something more than a Nice Send Off?

 

Rock's promo on Cena led to a nice big buyrate. Great promo? Well, pretty solid at the least and frankly rather strong given how instantly it ran circles around the typical shit on the WWE.

 

People are jumping for joy like this is going to be a promo that the masses of WWE Fans will be talking about in 10 years.

 

I think the reality is that more people talked about the Beer Truck/Bath ten years after it happened (let alone the This Is Your Life skit that we all thought was goofy) than will be talking about this one.

 

Hell, for all we circle jerked about "I Respect You Booker Man", it really didn't mean dick in terms of memorable to the mass of WCW Fans compared to the Hogan Turn spots (post match on the PPV and the mic spot the next night on Nitro).

 

:/

 

John

[jdw]

RAW wasn't delayed last night, or we would have heard about that promo early, and we had live spoilers for the second show. They cut to the shot of the camera next to him right before he looked at it and said he was breaking the fourth wall, and right before he turned to it and said hello to Colt. It would also make sense that the line about Stephanie and HHH was the go-home line, since you can't really follow that. So I'm pretty skeptical of the PWI thing about Punk just winging it.

Totally agree on this.

 

I'd recommend people watch it again from a Production standpoint, and see how pretty well they nailed it. They hit their marks right as Punk did.

 

The one "flaw" they had in it was the attention given to Cena, but even from that it was a Production item to help draw attention back to Punk-Cena.

 

My thoughts are that people are telling PWI that it was totally off the cuff / no one knew what he was going to say / the WWE was taken totally by surprise by it for the same reason Sully-Pillman was worked to the boys:

 

They want people to "believe".

 

John

[jdw]

The execution of the promo was what people are referring to. Bix summed up its effectiveness at cageside seats.

I kind of thought I was reading a Quebrada there... or one of my old pieces. That's not a positive.

 

And I like a ton of the stuff Bix is doing at Cage, and I'm not feuding with him and having for years. Big fan, and not looking for ways to take shots.

 

But it came across as trying to justify "Why I just lost my shit" way too hard.

 

 

You talked about Rock and Taker but you left out Austin which is a realistic scenario since Austin has hinted at a return to the ring. That could be a pretty big fucking deal.

It would be. Do you think *this* is leading directly to it, 9 months out? That this is a launching point to it? Or that they'll just pull something out of their ass at the last minute like they did for Rock-Cena-Mizz?

 

Does this strike anyone like a company that can sustain *anything* for 9 months on a clear storyline?

 

I frankly think they tossed out Rock-Cena for next year so that they would tie their hands down to something, not get lost along the way, and force themselves to go with it. I only half joke.

 

 

If nothing happens after MITB, Punk goes away, comes back, goes back to midcard purgatory, so what? For one night, he gave a voice, if just for a few minutes, for those of us who have been ignored or scoffed at. For one night, hardcores like me and Alvarez, casuals like you, and performers past and present were buzzing. We are having fun trying to connect the dots. When was current wrestling so much fun?

I've been there, done that for the past 15 years. From Sully to Eric to Russo to Steph to Trip and on and on, various goofballs booking and writing this shit have been trying to "shoot on the fans" (and the boys on occassion).

 

Russo is a prick. I hate listening to him on the mic. I hate Hogan. But in reality, Russo shooting about fucking over Hogan (Hogan-Jeffey) frankly was Really Big: It pretty much killed off Hogan in WCW. Sent packing. Kind of memorable.

 

But we all couldn't give a shit about it because...

 

It was Russo.

 

And Jeffey.

 

And Hogan.

 

I think the reason why this went over is because:

 

Hardcores love Punk. Punk "shot" on a WWE that we hate to some degree.

 

Heyman and Ross did the same thing. In the end, it meant nothing. Good promos, though. Well executed.

 

I liked Punk's thing. Was entertained by it since it was delivered well. The words meant nothing to me, because I tend to see all of pro wrestling promos as bullshit these days. Good delivery, good acting (rater than yelling and screaming), some funny lines, and I'm entertained.

 

It's that GPE that makes me shake my head a bit. It's like WWF fans *at the time* thinking DX going down to Nitro was the greatest skit ever... because they hated WCW and wanted to believe in their WWF.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

I thought it was good, but then watched the Joey Styles one and thought that was better.

 

Obviously when people are saying "ever", they don't mean EVER though right? I mean for a start there are about 20 Flair promos that knock either of those out the park.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

It was a the best delivered promo on TV in years.

It's a good promo.

 

Can you think of a better promo on WWE or TNA TV in the last five years? I suppose Jericho may have had a few contenders, but aside from that I can't think of anything.

[Bix]

Keep in mind that it's not clear when he's actually leaving.

Or that he'll even stay gone for long.

He'll be gone long enough to recharge his batteries at the very least. He's saved his money tremendously well, and I don't think a Jericho-length departure or longer is out of the question.

 

As I kinda said in my blog post, enough people had enough suspension of disbelief for the first time in such a long time that it's a big deal just for that.

People has suspension of disbelief when Danielsen was "fired" and took indy bookings. I think a lot of us jaded fucks knew he'd be back, sooner rather than later.

That wasn't an angle, though. He got a Jamie Noble "we have no other choice, stay away from TNA and we'll see you real soon" firing.

 

He was able to maneuver politically to get this to happen, which is a big deal, especially since they just let him go off on his own.

I'm not really buynig that he "maneuvered politically" to get to shoot on the WWE if the WWE didn't want him to shoot on the WWE.

He's doing an adapted version of his ROH swan song in WWE. That takes some impressive Vince massaging.

 

We don't know exactly what happens next. They have a bunch of ways to go. Even the most predictable route (Punk wins the title, Raw MITB winner beats him for it immediately, Cena stays because Punk didn't leave with the belt), is a great angle and a memorable exit.

That leads to... what?

 

Shouldn't the GPE lead to something more than a Nice Send Off?

 

Rock's promo on Cena led to a nice big buyrate. Great promo? Well, pretty solid at the least and frankly rather strong given how instantly it ran circles around the typical shit on the WWE.

 

People are jumping for joy like this is going to be a promo that the masses of WWE Fans will be talking about in 10 years.

 

I think the reality is that more people talked about the Beer Truck/Bath ten years after it happened (let alone the This Is Your Life skit that we all thought was goofy) than will be talking about this one.

 

Hell, for all we circle jerked about "I Respect You Booker Man", it really didn't mean dick in terms of memorable to the mass of WCW Fans compared to the Hogan Turn spots (post match on the PPV and the mic spot the next night on Nitro).

 

:/

 

I'm not calling it the greatest promo ever and I don't think Will is either as much as playing off some of the reaction.

 

As Cox said, WWE has made a habit of doing something outside of the box in June the last several years. The goal here is probably to pop a higher B-show buyrate, get some buzz going, and maybe help put over someone new who gets the belt at MITB. Or maybe Punk sticks around for a few months "forced" to defend the belt while being a dick in the big Summer program just like in ROH. In all of this, they also seem to be putting more importance on the title, as well.

 

It's not like there were any negatives. It was a great promo and felt fresh, we'll get at least one other cool thing, maybe two on the go-home Raw and the PPV. That's good enough for me.

[Bix]

The execution of the promo was what people are referring to. Bix summed up its effectiveness at cageside seats.

I kind of thought I was reading a Quebrada there... or one of my old pieces. That's not a positive.

 

And I like a ton of the stuff Bix is doing at Cage, and I'm not feuding with him and having for years. Big fan, and not looking for ways to take shots.

 

But it came across as trying to justify "Why I just lost my shit" way too hard.

It comes across that way because it was one of the main points: Why we lost our shit (the obvious button pushing in addition to how it built), plus to why it worked on a storyline level. Then the thread about how Punk should finally be getting credit for knowing how to deal behind the scenes after putting up with a bunch of ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women and Meltzer buying the Lita story that was designed to degrade him as willing to be in a relationship with someone (rightly or wrongly) perceived as "slutty."

[goodhelmet]

Yeah, look at the title of the youtube link.... CM Punk - Best Promo Ever.

[Kostka]

Not to take away from what Punk did, but having the best promo of the past 5 years isn't really a crowning achievement. The bar set for "great promo" is at an all time low. Punk was really great...and stands out as greater in an age of bad/listless/robotic promo work.

 

Eddies mic work in 2005 vs Mysterio is the closest modern day promo work I can think of that rivals Punks Raw thing. Jericho had his moments in the Michaels program in 2008 but I find it overrated.

[shoe]

For the promo to work. Punk needs to get his shot at Cena. Also we need to see a nice spike in business. When Hogan turned at Bash at the Beach 96 and gave the NWO a name and gave his quasi heel shoot that was a great moment and lead to big business.

 

 

 

Now onto the Punk thing. It's definetely a sign that HHH is phasing himself out. I don't think he has ever allowed himself to look this bad. Punk calling him a dufus is about as big as an insult that Hunter has taken. I was more shocked at HHH being referred to as a dufus than anything else. I still feel the promo might have been to shooty. I hope I'm wrong and this firmly makes Punk to the casual audience a big time draw.

[goodhelmet]

Fuck it, lets dissect this motherfucker.

 

1. The Austin T-Shirt - The Twitter War, the All Stars game promotional tie-in, the lifestyle clash, the mutual admiration society, the program that writes itself... one subtle message as a fuck you for another program they could have had but probably didn't even entertain. Add the fact that Austin was one of the first guys to leave McMahon post-WCW death coincidentally because he believed creative was fucking up.

 

2. Nod to ROH - Maybe it was just a shout-out to Cabana or maybe the entire Best In the World thing grated on Punk's nerves. In his mind, I am sure he thinks he is the best in the world and it could have easily been construed as a knock on ROH calling a show Best in the World, when in his mind, he is Best in the World. Plus, he gave a shout-out to his buddy who was never given a fair shake because of a couple of anti-semitic assholes in the back. Shout out or criticism? A shout-out to the hardcores.

 

3. Call-outs to Hogan and Rock. Cena is this decade's "mega-icon" in WWE's mind. What better way to address the current icon by referencing the past mega-icons? He didn't mention Savage, Hart, HBK, Taker, Austin and call them out. He called out the mega-icons. One who he feuded with in the past and the other who gets the Cena spot next year. That is some subtle yet effective shit.

 

4. Knocks on Vince the Millionaire, Johnny Ace, the doofus and stupid daughter - Exhibits A, B, C and D of incompetence and denial. Only thing missing is a Kevin Dunn drop.

 

5. Paul Heyman - Punk's not stupid. This promo was a throwback to Heyman shoots including the promo after ECW ended up as part of the Alliance. The huge difference with this one and the Heyman shoot is that they did kill the Alliance. The worst that could happen is Punk is neutered for 2 weeks off TV and you have to PAY YOUR MONEY to see him on the PPV in his last possible match for the company. Life may go back to normal after the promo but Punk did what yo uare supposed to do... produce intrigue for a main event program. The Alliance never let us do that. With Russo, he was correct in his shoot on Hogan at the time. The difference is that Punk has proven that people actually become emotionally invested in the TV Punk is part of. Russo never created TV that we could become emotionally invested in. Punk cut a wrestling promo to hype an upcoming main event. Russo cut a sports entertainment promo.

 

6. Heel Promo - He kept the crowd enthralled through the entire thing... and he did the thing a heel is supposed to do according to Michael Hayes... he may be wrong but he believed he was right.

 

That is some classic shit.

[goodhelmet]

Not to take away from what Punk did, but having the best promo of the past 5 years isn't really a crowning achievement. The bar set for "great promo" is at an all time low. Punk was really great...and stands out as greater in an age of bad/listless/robotic promo work.

 

Eddies mic work in 2005 vs Mysterio is the closest modern day promo work I can think of that rivals Punks Raw thing. Jericho had his moments in the Michaels program in 2008 but I find it overrated.

Eddie's steel cage promo is probably the best promo of the modern era by far.

[Strummer]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

[JerryvonKramer]

My only criticism of that promo is actually Cena. Can someone tell me what happened to him just before the clip? Because whatever it is I'm meant to believe he's quite hurt, so bad that he can't get up, but not out cold FOR SIX MINUTES. What gives?

[Kostka]

Not to take away from what Punk did, but having the best promo of the past 5 years isn't really a crowning achievement. The bar set for "great promo" is at an all time low. Punk was really great...and stands out as greater in an age of bad/listless/robotic promo work.

 

Eddies mic work in 2005 vs Mysterio is the closest modern day promo work I can think of that rivals Punks Raw thing. Jericho had his moments in the Michaels program in 2008 but I find it overrated.

Eddie's steel cage promo is probably the best promo of the modern era by far.

 

I wish someone would post that damn promo on YouTube as I've been searching for it for years. All I have is the memory of "how can you beat someone that has already lost everything?". The one where he brings out the ripped mask and sits in a chair in the middle of the ring with the lights dimmed is on YouTube and is a really awesome promo too.

[Kostka]

My only criticism of that promo is actually Cena. Can someone tell me what happened to him just before the clip? Because whatever it is I'm meant to believe he's quite hurt, so bad that he can't get up, but not out cold FOR SIX MINUTES. What gives?

It was a tables match. Truth speared him through a table while he had Punk up on his shoulders for an AA. He sold it fine. He was kinda sitting up looking at Punk not too long into the promo.

[Bix]

ridiculous bullshit in that regard like Alvarez basically saying WWE thinks he abuses women

what was the deal here?

 

He said that Punk was "considered dangerous around the women" without any analysis, qualification, or objection.

[kjh]

That wasn't an angle, though. He got a Jamie Noble "we have no other choice, stay away from TNA and we'll see you real soon" firing.

To be fair to John, no-one's ever really got to the bottom of Danielson's firing. I do tend to believe Randazzo's story in PowerSlam that Linda McMahon's political campaign was behind his firing, but it's not like anyone has confirmed who freaked out and caused his firing, so I can understand someone still believing it was a work all along.

[Strummer]

Punk's references to Johnny Ace and Trips/Stephanie were edited off on NXT apparently