The poor sportsmanship of Hulk Hogan

[Ditch]

Cheating to beat the freaking Beverly Brothers in '93.

[JerryvonKramer]

He just bodyslammed a 400 plus pound man. I'd celebrate too.

Are you making excuses for Hogan again McMahon?

 

[Victator]

Just telling it like it is.

[Mad Dog]

He beat up Sherri. Sherri is a woman. Beating up managers in general is fine.

 

Concerning Andre, his immediate reaction was that if Andre ever wanted a title shot, all he had to do was ask. Well, that's exactly what he did. He got Bobby Heenan involved, but he confronted him face to face and simply asked him.

 

Not to mention the trophies the week before. As Jesse Ventura pointed out, Hogan's trophy was made of REAL GOLD (It's true!), while Andre's was simply "rotten old lead".

In fairness to Hogan, I've seen Lawler punch out several female valets before Hogan ever dreamed of doing it.

[Loss]

Me too. It wasn't any better when Lawler did it.

[Victator]

Hogan never punched Sherri. He would Atomic Drop her and toss her from the ring. I mean it is not the 1800's anymore and Sherri was a former woman's champion and portrayed as tougher than most of the managers. What exactly are you suppose to do if you are attacked by someone capable of hurting you?

[jdw]

Paul Orndorff: Now lets overlook the fact Orndorff was a creep that tried to help Hogan's arch enemy end his career the previous year. Or that Hogan quite magnanimously teamed with Orndorff after all of that. Hulk Hogan was a very busy man. In addition to being the WWF Champion, he had various commercial and television commitments. All he told him was that he would have to call him back. Hardly a good reason to betray a guy who had tolerated a lot of your crap. As a side note even after all of that Hogan forgave him again.

Hold on there. Paul saw the light after Wrestlemania. He fired his no good manager. Brain then went and put a bounty on Paul's head. When he had title matches with Hogan and got beat fair and square, he shook Hogan's hand. That was respect, which is more than Hogan ever showed Paul. It wasn't Hogan who came to save Paul, but it was Paul who ran in to save Hogan when Studd, Patera & Heenan tried to cut Hogan's hair.

 

That was twice that Paul made the first step to mend their sporting differences: shaking Hogan's hand out of respect, and running in to save him against an evil pair.

 

So Hogan's couldn't show Paul the same level of respect by answering his calls, or at least returning them promptly?

 

 

Andre: Andre never once hinted he wanted a title match. Since is it the job of the World Champion to track down challengers. He is the champion you come to him. Hogan was betrayed because Andre went to a creep like Heenan who had tried to destroy both Hulk and Andre over the years.

Look... Andre was a man of honor and pride. He didn't ask for anything, unless it was to get a piece of that bastard Khan after he broke his leg. Andre doesn't ask... he just does. Remember this:

 

 

Andre didn't have to be there to celebrate with Hogan after he won the title. He had a match coming up later in the card and normally would have been doing a little light exercise do he didn't go into the ring "cold", and a little meditating to be mentally sharp. But he broke up his pre-match ritual to go out of his way to give props to the young up & commer who just won the biggest prize in the sport. He didn't ask if he could shoot a photo op with the new Champ, he did by making his way over to pay his respects.

 

Three years, and Hogan had beaten everyone in sight. He was giving title shots to freaking Hercules. Don't tell me that the Champ doesn't have pull when it comes to who he faces. All the way back to the 30s, guys like Jim Londos would only fight the guys they wanted to. We all know that Lou Thesz wouldn't face Bruno because he was chicken of the Living Legend. Race? After Backlund kicked his ass in MSG, he never wanted to come back to face the Champ until he was broke and needed some of Junior's money. Flair? He'd only face Backlund in NWA Country where the ref was on the take because he knew that Bob would take that belt in a fair fight. Nick Bockwinkel? He paid off the AWA to give him his title back every time Hogan beat him fair in the ring, then conspired with the promoters to run Hogan out of the AWA to save the belt.

 

Hogan knew this. He watched it first hand with what Bockwinkel did. Once he got the title, he knew the one man he never wanted to face: Andre. So he befriended him, glad handed him, and did everything he could to make sure the following thought never crossed the mind of the Championship Committee:

 

Hogan vs Andre

 

It was Andre who had to finally pushing things to make it happen, after getting sickened to his stomach to see guys like Hercules and Kimala get title shots.

 

Sadly, Andre's health had gone out in 1986. He wasn't close to 100% when he faced Hogan. Frankly it was one of the things that drove him to forcing the match: he knew his time as a top wrestler was fading, and if he let Hogan stall any longer, his chance of beating Hogan would be gone.

 

That's some friend there. Not giving a shot your idol, hero and friend. Making him force it. And stalling until he was in a weakened shape. Totally unsportsman like.

 

 

 

Savage: Hogan was a great friend to the Macho Man. Savage would not have won the title in the first place if not for Hulk Hogan. Did Hogan once ask for a title match? No because he wanted Savage to have his time in the sun. Savage was ate up with jealously. Deep down he knew he did not beat the true WWF Champion to win the belt. Every time Hogan helped him, it ate Savage up just a little bit more. But Savage could never openly face this, so he fabricated a story of Hogan wanting Elisabeth.

What are you talking about? Hogan wanted to Randy's *wife*. Don't think so? Look at the post match:

 

Randy's celebrating a hard earned win, while Hogan is looking over to try to put the moves on Liz behind Macho's back:

 

 

Then... lordy... he's all sweaty and stuff rubbing up against her:

 

 

I mean... look at this:

 

http://www.misselizabeth.com/wwf/ppv/sumslam88/ss3.AVI

 

That's another man's WIFE!!! and he's damn near dry (or sweaty) humping in the ring infront of 20,000 fans and the millions at home.

 

I don't even want to post the video where he's grabbing her ass... this is a family board. But it's safe to say that Hogan was out of line here. Hogan talked about saying his prayers, but what about not coveting your friends wife? Macho had every right to be upset when he finally had a chance to review what his "friend" Hogan was trying to get up to with Liz.

 

 

Now for beating up managers. Exactly at what point were the likes of Heenan, Sherri, Jimmy Hart and Slick these upstanding pillars of society? If given a proper chance they would kill Hogan, rip out his kidneys and leave him in a tub of ice. Hogan was wrong for bashing their skulls in? If anything he was too gentle.

You don't hit women. Hitting Sheri was way out of line. You kindly ask the ref to throw her out of ringside.

 

John

[jdw]

He beat up Sherri. Sherri is a woman. Beating up managers in general is fine.

 

Concerning Andre, his immediate reaction was that if Andre ever wanted a title shot, all he had to do was ask. Well, that's exactly what he did. He got Bobby Heenan involved, but he confronted him face to face and simply asked him.

 

Not to mention the trophies the week before. As Jesse Ventura pointed out, Hogan's trophy was made of REAL GOLD (It's true!), while Andre's was simply "rotten old lead".

In fairness to Hogan, I've seen Lawler punch out several female valets before Hogan ever dreamed of doing it.

 

Lawler's views on women aren't good ones to hold up as role models.

 

John

[Victator]

So Hogan's couldn't show Paul the same level of respect by answering his calls, or at least returning them promptly?

I'm sure Hulk returned the calls when he got the time. If I betrayed everyone who did not promptly return a call or email I would be on my third life sentence.

 

Andre didn't have to be there to celebrate with Hogan after he won the title. He had a match coming up later in the card and normally would have been doing a little light exercise do he didn't go into the ring "cold", and a little meditating to be mentally sharp. But he broke up his pre-match ritual to go out of his way to give props to the young up & commer who just won the biggest prize in the sport. He didn't ask if he could shoot a photo op with the new Champ, he did by making his way over to pay his respects.

Which is why Hulk assumed Andre never wanted a title match.

 

What are you talking about? Hogan wanted to Randy's *wife*. Don't think so? Look at the post match:

 

Randy's celebrating a hard earned win, while Hogan is looking over to try to put the moves on Liz behind Macho's back:

Like the WWF Championship if Hogan wanted Liz he would of taken her.

 

 

 

You don't hit women. Hitting Sheri was way out of line. You kindly ask the ref to throw her out of ringside.

That is a good recipe for losing your title.

[Victator]

In fairness to Hogan, I've seen Lawler punch out several female valets before Hogan ever dreamed of doing it.

I found Lawler punching them disturbing. It was not a wrestling move cartoon esque violence. It was just a dude rearing back and socking her in the jaw.

[Bob Morris]

The fact is, there are easy ways to adjust the booking so that Hogan truly comes off as the sympathetic babyface. Allow me to explain:

 

* Orndorff: Two Heenan family members attack Orndorff when Hogan isn't at the arena. Orndorff complains that Hogan should be watching his back. Next show, Hogan gets attacked by the Heenan family, Orndorff isn't around. Hogan doesn't blame Orndorff, saying the Heenan family is responsible. Heenan goes on a tirade about Hogan is supposed to be the American hero and there at all times for his friends. Orndorff buys what Heenan is saying and turns on Hogan.

 

* Bossman at the Rumble: After Bossman and Akeem toss Hogan, Bossman goes outside the ring to beat up Hogan some more (going through the ropes as Gorilla and Jesse note Bossman has to go over the top rope to be eliminated). Hogan Hulks up, but Akeem comes through the ropes and it's a double team again. Beefcake is next out, comes to help Hogan. Akeem fends off Beefcake, tosses him into the ring and follows him in. Bossman returns, he and Akeem double team, but one attempt backfires and Akeem accidentally eliminates Bossman. Hogan Hulks up again, pummels Bossman in retaliation, Bossman tries the nightstick again, but Hogan prevents it, gets the nightstick and chases Bossman back to the dressing room.

 

* Andre: Hogan and Andre get their trophies, but Hogan said Andre's deserves the trophy he (Hogan) got. Andre still remarks about how many years Hogan has held the belt. Hogan is later asked about it and he says he'll give Andre a title shot whenever he wants it. Andre turns him down initially, but then Heenan sells Andre on the idea that Hogan is just trying to make Andre feel better and, if Hogan really wanted to give him a title shot, he'd do more than just say he can have one, but get the contract ready. Heenan promises he'll do it, Andre gives in to Heenan and Hogan is shocked.

 

* Sid at the Rumble: Comes down to the final four, with Sid having just eliminated Martel and Piper, but Savage hits Sid from behind and tries to toss him. Flair gives Hogan a low blow, capitalizes on Savage being occupied and eliminates him. Flair turns back to Hogan, but here's the Hulk up. Sid is getting back to his feet as Hogan works over Flair. Hogan turns to Sid, offers him a shot at Flair, and Sid motions for Hogan to have Flair to himself. Just as Hogan is about to eliminate Flair, Sid sneaks up behind Hogan and dumps him. Sid then steps over the ropes and drops to the floor to eliminate himself. He later joins Flair and high-fives him, revealing he was simply there to ensure Flair won the title in the end.

 

It's not too difficult to book this stuff so Hogan is clearly the guy fans want to sympathize with. Instead we got a product of the 1980's "me generation."

 

NWA/WCW may not have been drawing the money but the folks there generally understood how to do a better job of booking a sympathetic babyface.

[jdw]

I think back then, as now, fans like a babyface who will kick some ass. Hogan would kick some ass.

 

John

[cm funk]

This thread makes me realize that as much as John Cena is pushed as the Hogan of this era, he's never had any good friend turning on him angles, if any at all. In fact, the only one I can even think of is R-Truth this year, and Truth executed the actual turn on Morrison.

[Mad Dog]

Me too. It wasn't any better when Lawler did it.

I would argue it was worse. I think Hogan skirted that line and gray area with how he treated Sherri while I feel that Lawler was way over the line.

 

I tried to get on the Online service for the WWE and of course they got rid of pretty much every episode of Superstars on the site. So I can't find the clip of HTM and McMahon/Piper. I think it had to do with the Orient Express and they were being very anti-Japanese and HTM kept saying "come on guys, we're in a global society, leave them alone."

[Guest Paul Kersey]

This thread makes me realize that as much as John Cena is pushed as the Hogan of this era, he's never had any good friend turning on him angles, if any at all. In fact, the only one I can even think of is R-Truth this year, and Truth executed the actual turn on Morrison.

 

They booked a bunch of people as "friends" of Hogan. Cena has no friends. The only people ever booked as such have been Truth & Crymetyme (which is kind of awkward too.)

 

There's another thread to be had about how wrestling reflects politics, Hogan really was a hero for his time.

[MikeCampbell]

If Andre had to only ask then explain this exchange:

 

Andre: I'm here for one reason, to challenge you for the world championship at the WrestleMania.

Hogan: Andre, no. It's not happening, man.

 

Don't forget that when Hogan and Orndorf were going to the ring to face Stud and Bundy, Hogan practically shoved Paul out of the way to play to the crowd. It was like one bridgemaid shoving another so she could catch the boquet.

 

I always found Hogan's promo at Summerslam '90 to be odd. Quake and Bravo injured Tugboat who was supposed to be in Hogan's corner. Hogan cuts this promo borderline bragging that he's not going out there alone, because the great and powerful Hulk Hogan needs someone to watch his back for him.

 

And there's another case of Hogan being a jerk. Quake and Bravo injure his friend Tugboat and Hogan is nowhere to be seen. Which goes to show how much Hogan had his back. So when it's time for Hogan to wrestle Quake, he just up and replaces Tugboat with Bossman. It's no wonder Tugboat didn't become Typhoon by beating Hogan's ass. He deserved it for that one.

[rainmakerrtv]

And there's another case of Hogan being a jerk. Quake and Bravo injure his friend Tugboat and Hogan is nowhere to be seen. Which goes to show how much Hogan had his back. So when it's time for Hogan to wrestle Quake, he just up and replaces Tugboat with Bossman. It's no wonder Tugboat didn't become Typhoon by beating Hogan's ass. He deserved it for that one.

While there was no full on Orndorff style attack, Tugboat did go immediately after Hogan in both the Royal Rumble and the SNME Battle Royal preceding his becoming Typhoon, complete with harsh words between the two.

[Loss]

He just seemed holier-than-thou in general. He wasn't about being a nice guy and helping his friends; he was about indoctrinating the weak-minded to his moral code and overshadowing everything with self-aggrandizing displays. He was clearly much more Old Testament God than New Testament God. As a kid, I was invariably thrilled when anyone turned on him, because it always seemed like the reasonable human response.

This is really the best explanation in the thread.

[Strummer]

a lot of it was probably Vince's world viewing seeping through. "Moral Authority" and all

[khawk20]

In Hogan's first title challenge vs. Nick Bockwinkel in April of 1982, Hogan uses Brass knuckles that Heenan tried to throw to Bock to score the pin. he subsequently hides the Nucks and lies to the referee about having them or using them.

 

Good thing that result was overturned and Bockwinkel got the title back from that cheater!

[Dooley]

Hold on there. Paul saw the light after Wrestlemania. He fired his no good manager. Brain then went and put a bounty on Paul's head. When he had title matches with Hogan and got beat fair and square, he shook Hogan's hand. That was respect, which is more than Hogan ever showed Paul. It wasn't Hogan who came to save Paul, but it was Paul who ran in to save Hogan when Studd, Patera & Heenan tried to cut Hogan's hair.

 

That was twice that Paul made the first step to mend their sporting differences: shaking Hogan's hand out of respect, and running in to save him against an evil pair.

 

So Hogan's couldn't show Paul the same level of respect by answering his calls, or at least returning them promptly?

Minor point: It was initially Hogan (and Mr. T) that saved Orndorff from a 2-on-1 beating from Piper and Orton on the first SNME.

[Matt D]

They worked SO SO hard not to have Cena do anything bad last year. They went out of their way to prevent him from FUing Orton even when Barrett ordered him to. It was amazing.

[jdw]

If Andre had to only ask then explain this exchange:

 

Andre: I'm here for one reason, to challenge you for the world championship at the WrestleMania.

Hogan: Andre, no. It's not happening, man.

Hell... I forgot about that. Not only did Andre have to ask, but even then Hogan didn't want to do it. Hogan drove Andre into the arms of The Brain.

 

 

Don't forget that when Hogan and Orndorf were going to the ring to face Stud and Bundy, Hogan practically shoved Paul out of the way to play to the crowd. It was like one bridgemaid shoving another so she could catch the boquet.

Other wrestlers, managers and announcers weren't lying when they said that Hogan was hogging on the spotlight.

 

I always found Hogan's promo at Summerslam '90 to be odd. Quake and Bravo injured Tugboat who was supposed to be in Hogan's corner. Hogan cuts this promo borderline bragging that he's not going out there alone, because the great and powerful Hulk Hogan needs someone to watch his back for him.

I remember Hogan starting claiming put himself over as "The Immortal Hulk Hogan" for the first time in 1990... not long after he lost the title to Warrior.

 

WWF Champion Ultimate Warrior

The Immortal Hulk Hogan

 

Okay... so Hogan losing the title, then proclaims his godhood like he's Caligula . He's bigger that the WWF Title.

 

No wonder Warrior failed as the WWF Champ: Hogan stole his thunder.

 

John

[jdw]

Hold on there. Paul saw the light after Wrestlemania. He fired his no good manager. Brain then went and put a bounty on Paul's head. When he had title matches with Hogan and got beat fair and square, he shook Hogan's hand. That was respect, which is more than Hogan ever showed Paul. It wasn't Hogan who came to save Paul, but it was Paul who ran in to save Hogan when Studd, Patera & Heenan tried to cut Hogan's hair.

 

That was twice that Paul made the first step to mend their sporting differences: shaking Hogan's hand out of respect, and running in to save him against an evil pair.

 

So Hogan's couldn't show Paul the same level of respect by answering his calls, or at least returning them promptly?

Minor point: It was initially Hogan (and Mr. T) that saved Orndorff from a 2-on-1 beating from Piper and Orton on the first SNME.

 

That isn't the case:

 

WWF @ Poughkeepsie, NY - Mid-Hudson Civic Center - May 7, 1985

Championship Wrestling taping:

 

6/1/85 Championship Wrestling

WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Ken Patera (w/ Bobby Heenan & Big John Studd) via disqualification at 3:05 when Studd interfered and both men double teamed the champion; after the contest, Paul Orndorff made the save for Hogan as Heenan prepared to cut the champion's hair

 

 

WWF @ Long Island, NY - Nassau Coliseum - May 10, 1985 (8,300)

 

Saturday Night's Main Event - 5/11/85 on NBC (8.8)

 

included Gene Okerlund conducting an interview with Ricky Steamboat, Mike Rotundo, Barry Windham, & Capt. Lou Albano regarding their 6-man tag team match later in the show; featured Paul Orndorff as a guest of Piper's Pit, during which Orndorff ordered Bob Orton Jr. to stand alone in the corner while he spoke with Roddy Piper; moments later, Piper asked Orndorff what it was like to be a loser, with Orndorff blowing up and ordering Orton to stay in the corner when he saw him moving; after Piper called Orndorff an embarassment, he tried a cheap shot but Orndorff fought off both Piper and Orton; as Orndorff attempted the piledriver on Piper, Orton attacked Orndorff from behind with his arm cast; moments later, Mr. T appeared to help Orndorff to the back and hold Piper and Orton off;

 

WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan (w/ Mr. T) defeated Bob Orton Jr. (w/ Roddy Piper) via disqualification at 6:54 when Piper punched the champion from the floor as Hogan had Orton covered following the legdrop; after the bout, Piper & Orton double teamed Mr. T and cornered Hogan until Paul Orndorff came out and helped scare the heels from the ring; moments later, Orndorff celebrated with Hogan & T and all three posed together in the ring (Best of Saturday Night's Main Event)

Orndorff reached out to save Hogan three days before SNME was taped. Hogan than talked McMahon into *not* inserting this major breaking news into the 05/11/85 syndication shows (via voice overs), or inserting it easily into the 05/11/85 SNME to show that Paul was the first one to reach out. Instead, Hogan convinced McMahon to make it look like Hogan was the one who saved Paul first.

 

See, even from the start of their friendship, Hogan was trying to hog the spotlight and look better than Mr. Wonderful. It's amazing that it took Paul a year to figure out what a jerk Hogan was.

 

John

[jdw]

In Hogan's first title challenge vs. Nick Bockwinkel in April of 1982, Hogan uses Brass knuckles that Heenan tried to throw to Bock to score the pin. he subsequently hides the Nucks and lies to the referee about having them or using them.

 

Good thing that result was overturned and Bockwinkel got the title back from that cheater!

Okay, so The Brain was getting a little excited there worrying about Bock losing. But a real sportsman would have picked up the knucks, given them to the ref, and then beaten Bock fair and square to win the title. Hogan tried to short cut his way to the title, then lied about it.

 

John