Best U.S. Worker Of The 90's?

[Dylan Waco]

This is a spin off from another thread, but I am interested to see if the consensus has shifted here. For years the standard opinion was "Bret" with a smaller contingent talking up Shawn and a few people throwing Benoit up as a possibility. Other possible candidates for a top ten if not a top slot would be...

 

Too Cold Scorpio

Owen Hart

Steve Austin

Eddy Guerrero

Vader

Ric Flair (wouldn't be near the top of my list but I think we need to be realistic about names that would pop up)

Dean Malenko

Rey Misterio

William Regal

Mick Foley

Ricky Steamboat

Arn Anderson

Brian Pillman

Psicosis

Juventud Guerrera

Sabu

 

Guys who I think I could see being contenders for my personal top ten, but might not rate so highly for others would be...

 

Tracy Smothers

Mikey Whipwreck

Little Guido

Terry Funk

Jerry Lawler

Dustin Rhodes

[El-P]

This is a spin off from another thread, but I am interested to see if the consensus has shifted here. For years the standard opinion was "Bret" with a smaller contingent talking up Shawn and a few people throwing Benoit up as a possibility. Other possible candidates for a top ten if not a top slot would be...

To me I don't see you can dethrone Bret. The great matches are there. The longevity is there. The consistency is there.

Shawn is overrated, always as been. Not a huge fan of his World title reign. Plenty of workers are ahead of Shawn in my book.

Benot should be there somewhere, but I see his New Japan run as muc better as anything he did in the US in term of great matches.

 

Too Cold Scorpio

Yes, top ten to me. Amazing peak in ECW, and tons of good work before. Hurt by his WWF run, which is a pattern, but Scorp in 96 was untouchable.

 

Owen Hart

Some great matches, also tons of cruise control performances, which were good but unspectacular. But overall I think he belongs in the top ten.

 

Steve Austin

Awesome in 96/97. Then not quite as good. I'm not sure how his WCW works holds up. His case gets much stronger with 2001, which was an amzing peak year, but or the 90's only, I guess top ten, depending on his WCW work, which I'm not overly familiar with.

 

Eddy Guerrero

A few great matches, tons of really good stuff, yeah, Eddie belongs in the top ten.

 

Vader

Awesome WCW run until Hogan showed up. Hurt by his WWF run, althoughhe did have his share of excellent stuf there also. Yeah, top ten material.

 

Ric Flair (wouldn't be near the top of my list but I think we need to be realistic about names that would pop up)

From 1990 to 1992, not doubt in the top 10. Then, no so much, with the occasionnal excellent stuff and also the regular "Flair old match" stuff.

 

Dean Malenko

Now way. Way overrated. Tons of ECW and WCW stuff doesn't hold up well. Wrestling in a vacuum too many times.

 

Rey Misterio

Great but short peak in WCW. Case gets much stronger with the lucha years.

 

William Regal

Super consistant, but I don't see the great matches. Maybe top ten but no way he gets near the very top.

 

Mick Foley

You know what, now that I think of t, Mick truly was terrific for most of the 90's. A few maturbatory stuff, but he had his share of great maches, was very consistant. Yeah, No doubt top ten to me.

 

Ricky Steamboat

A few great years in WCW. Kinda like Rey. Being cut short in 1994 hurt his case, but he delivered some of the great singles and tag matches of the decade.

 

Arn Anderson

Just like Regal, super solid and consistant, but I don't see the great matches. The Ted DiBiase of the 90's.

 

Brian Pillman

Excellent first few years in WCW, not sure the Blondes holds up well in terms of matches. After the injury a wasn't the same. Case gets much stronger with 1989, but for the 90's only, not so sure.

 

Psicosis

Nah. Didn't get to shine as much in WCW as Rey or Juvy, only because of his push.

 

Juventud Guerrera

Just like Rey, he might ave a case. He was sloppy at times though. Better case with the lucha years.

 

Sabu

Call me crazy, but after my ECW watch, I think I'd have no issue putting him in y top ten. Works hold up much better than tons of "solid wrestlers" that have been pimped as great like Dean, the guy elvoved with the times, adding and substracting stuff from his moveset, involved in tons of great matches, was consistant as hell. Maybe those guys back in 1994 were right after all, Sabu was all kind of fascinating.

 

Tracy Smothers

Hurt by his WWF stint. Not familiar with the SMW years. A few great tag matches in WCW. Solid, but would be more like an Arn or Regal to me.

 

Mikey Whipwreck

Yep, Whipreck getting close or even top ten I have no issue with. Was pretty much awesome in his role in 1994 and developped into a solid worker. Rough around the edges, but it fit ECW style. Tons of super matches under his belt, reinvented himself after his failed WCW run.

 

Little Guido

I like him a lot too, but he would be like Arn or Regal in that I don't see the great matches. As far as consistency though, the guy was awesome.

 

Terry Funk

Interesting case which gets much stronger with FMW thrown in. On his US work alone, not quite sure, although he would be a better case than Flair to me.

 

Jerry Lawler

I guess hat's entirely based on Memphis, which I've seen nothing off from the 90's. Except from the great SummerSlam 93 angle/match, his WWF work was rotten, with clown midgets, and kiss my foot matches.

 

Dustin Rhodes

Another interesting case. Not sure how his WCW work holds up, but he had a few great matches, and lots of solid one. I would put him with Arn and Regal easily.

 

I would add :

 

Shane Douglas : awesome peak from 1994/1996, when he was in my top 3 or 4 workers in the US, solid early WCW stuff including some great tag matches. Hurt by his WWF stint, had solid stuff in ECW post peak too. Top ten material to me without a doubt

 

Chris Candido : Not overly familiar with his SMW stuff, although I've seen a few, bu he's a much better candidate for top ten than guys like Malenko or Psicosis. Super consistent, made the most out of not so great angles in WWF. Kinda lacks the really great matches, bu I don't think he was ever put in that position either. Carried Lance Storm for a while. Yeah probably top ten to me.

[JerryvonKramer]

Again, can't understand why you'd list Vader and not Sting.

 

Sting's matches with Vader, Cactus Jack and with Luger vs. the Steiners alone should at least get him a mention.

 

He was always good value in the War Games. Always good vs. Flair (GAB'90, Clash 1, Clash 27).

 

He had good matches with Regal, Rude (Clash 17, Clash 21!, Spring Stapede, Superbrawl 2), Nikita (Clash 15, GAB 91), to name but a few.

[Mad Dog]

I think I would go with:

 

Sting

Vader

Stan Hansen

Chris Candido

Tracey Smothers

Steve Austin

Sean Waltman

Bret Hart

Dustin Rhodes

Scott Hall

 

I did Bret/Owen as an either or. I think Owen was probably a better worker but Bret, despite his flaws, was given more opportunity to shine in the 90s. Ultimately he had a very wide array of good matches with a large variety of workers.

[El-P]

I don't even see why Sting would get a nomination. He was game against Vader, but he was never that good of a worker to begin with. Really, a guy like Davey Boy Smith was a much better worker, had about as much great matches as Sting did, and his name wouldn't even scratch my mind in a "top ten of the 90's" discussions.

 

Sting was a fine piece of luggage against superior workers like Vader, Rude, Flair, and that's it to me. 60 year old Inoki had a better match than Sting ever did against Vader (and injured, banged up Vader to boot). Big Bubba had arguably just as good matches with Vader than Sting did. The Flair matches in the 90's weren't exactly great either.

 

I never got the hype about Steiners vs Sting/Luger, to me it's a good spotfest, and that's about it. Sting vs Regal was fine until Sting decided to no-sell from nowhere and beat Regal in two minutes after getting stretched forever. Not a very good match overall.

 

At best Sting was a game worker who could be carried to a great matches by great workers. Kinda like the Bulldog, in a lesser way.

 

Sean Waltman in an interesting name I forgot about. Better candidate than Malenko, Psicosis. A few great matches, lots of good stuff.

[jdw]

Eddy was born in the US. Bret and Benoit are Canadians. Obviously Eddy is the answer.

 

John

[Loss]

I think Bix and I have talked about Sting's inconsistency before, and decided that he needed to be challenged in order to have a good match. If you watch the Vader matches, he's anything but a piece of luggage. He is a "great wrestler" in those. The two complemented each other well, and Sting performing at that level all the time would have been awesome.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to consider Sting somewhere on a list like this at all, but I do agree that he doesn't have a place near the top. And the argument against him is that he never had a single great match after 1994-1995, at least that I can recall. Did he ever have a great match as Crow Sting?

 

Still working my way through the yearbooks, but Scorpio has looked excellent in 1992, 1993 and 1996.

 

Steve Austin is more a sentimental pick I think than someone who has a legit shot of being the #1 guy. He started as a very green, but physically capable wrestler who found himself through the decade. There's a compelling story there, but it's not of being the best U.S. wrestler of the 90s.

 

I don't think Shawn is a ridiculous answer either. Say what you will, but the sheer body of work he has is pretty impressive in comparison to his peers. If you're looking at quantity of good matches, he's in the discussion for sure, even if his best matches were probably a little overhyped.

 

Vader is a good pick. Foley is not a bad pick for being somewhere in the upper middle of the pack.

 

Owen Hart needs some love.

[jdw]

Again, can't understand why you'd list Vader and not Sting.

Because Sting wasn't a "great worker".

 

Unless we've bastardized the word "great" into something completely meaningless. Everything in wrestling that's good, watchable, enjoyable, fun or cool isn't GREAT. That's would be the top of the shelf shit.

 

John

[Mad Dog]

Crow Sting had that really good match with DDP on Nitro in 1998.

 

Also, Sting is anything but luggage. You want proof of that? He had the best singles match I've ever seen with Meng/Haku for the U.S. Championship in 1995.

 

I would also offer Jeff Jarrett up as more of a top 25-30 guy through out the 90s. He doesn't have that showcase classic or anything but he was really a consistent guy throughout the entire decade. Had good matches with the most random list of wrestlers you can name. I mean, how many guys can say they were having good matches with the Moondogs early in the decade and finished off 1999 with that really good Chris Benoit match at Mayhem.

[Mad Dog]

Again, can't understand why you'd list Vader and not Sting.

Because Sting wasn't a "great worker".

 

Unless we've bastardized the word "great" into something completely meaningless. Everything in wrestling that's good, watchable, enjoyable, fun or cool isn't GREAT. That's would be the top of the shelf shit.

 

John

 

He was a good worker that had moments and brief streaks of greatness. Is that fair to say about him?

[El-P]

Having a good match with DDP in 1998 doesn't make you great. DDP had a good match with Goldberg, who was a poor worker. Luger had two very good matches with Bret in 1998, in which he worked hard and looked good, which were better than anything Sting did that year.

Sting was solid. Sting worked hard at times. I've never seen a great Sting performance, much less a great or excellent match in which he was the better worker. I honestly doubt Sting was ever better than Luger was in 89, and I wouldn't call Luger a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Since you menion Jarrett, I would put him way above Sting as a worker without thnking twice about it. And Jarrett isn't what I'd call a great worker either. That said, Jarrett I would put above Malenko without much hesitation too.

[jdw]

He was a good worker that had moments and brief streaks of greatness. Is that fair to say about him?

I wouldn't even go that far, on either parts of that statement.

 

I'm not sure that Arn Anderson was a "great" worker. Clearly good, super solid, and had streaks of greatness.

 

I don't think Sting was remotely close to Arn in terms of being a good worker.

 

Sting was in some great matches. So was Kerry Von Erich. I'm not sold that Kerry is someone we can term as a good worker. He wasn't horrible, except perhaps when stoned out of his mind. He had streaks of being good, and when you tossed him in with a great worker or in a great setting, you could have a pretty damn fab match where Kerry held up his end of the work. But I'm not sure that when you lined up all the workers of the era you'd say Kerry was in the "good" camp unless we're expanding that to be a truly massive list.

 

Sting was a solid worker. Within his *type* of wrestler (muscle head), he was good. That's a bit of a double edge:

 

Being a muscle head means that some under estimated him and don't give him credit for being solid.

 

Being a muscle head means the standards of the type are really fucking low because quite of few of his peers sucked cock in the ring

 

John

[FLIK]

To me I don't see you can dethrone Bret. The great matches are there. The longevity is there. The consistency is there.

A lot of other people mentioned in this thread feel like guys who in an individual year I could see ahead of Bret but not when looking at the entire decade. I think consistency & longevity are the 2 big things that put Hart over the top for a case like this. I kinda look at him the same way I view Manami Toyota in that regard. Wrestlers whear there's very few times whear I would point to them as the absolute #1 best but they were always in the top handfull for an extremely long time. I'd also have Austin, Foley, Shawn, Benoit & Eddy up thear too in that category

[Mad Dog]

Jarrett is hard to rank. You kind of want to dismiss him, then you think about it and you realize he just has a laundry list of good matches and he was probably more consistent from 1990-1999 than anyone else was in the 90s. Really, Jarrett overall is kind of an odd worker. He's been around for 25 years and he's just been this consistent worker the entire time. I really think he doesn't get enough credit for his longevity, consistency and ability to stay relevant for as long as he has. There are guys that people rave about as amazing workers that petered out in 4-6 years. What's more impressive? A couple of years of greatness or 25 years of consistently good?

[JerryvonKramer]

Why is Dustin Rhodes there in the OP? And is Dustin Rhodes a better worker than Sting? And if so, how?

[NintendoLogic]

Eddy was born in the US. Bret and Benoit are Canadians. Obviously Eddy is the answer.

 

John

But Bret has US citizenship through his mother.

[Mad Dog]

Rhodes is a more flexible worker than Sting. Sells better, better comebacks and a better tag worker. Sting was probably a better brawler and had better charisma. But Rhodes at his peaks was a notch below being an elite worker. Great offense, understood his role in the matches, always came back at the right times, always played his characters correctly. Rhodes gets overlooked in WCW because he was Dusty's son and he gets overlooked in the WWE because of that retarded Goldust gimmick. But look at his run with the WWE in 2002. He was an afterthought surprise in the Royal Rumble and he went on to form the best tag team of the year with Booker T. Great segments all year, played his character perfectly and he made the team click.

 

Would it be crazy to say that Sean Waltman was the best U.S. worker in 1999?

[Victator]

Sting worked hard at times.

Sting always worked hard. He may not of worked smart, but the effort was/is never in question.

[JerryvonKramer]

Rhodes is a more flexible worker than Sting. Sells better, better comebacks and a better tag worker. Sting was probably a better brawler and had better charisma. But Rhodes at his peaks was a notch below being an elite worker. Great offense, understood his role in the matches, always came back at the right times, always played his characters correctly. Rhodes gets overlooked in WCW because he was Dusty's son and he gets overlooked in the WWE because of that retarded Goldust gimmick. But look at his run with the WWE in 2002. He was an afterthought surprise in the Royal Rumble and he went on to form the best tag team of the year with Booker T. Great segments all year, played his character perfectly and he made the team click.

Was he more over than Sting? And if not, how can he be the better worker?

 

I've watched every single WCW PPV from 1990 to GAB 1996 in the past two years and the idea that Dustin is a better worker than Sting is frankly ridiculous.

 

Sting had great matches with good workers and people say he was carried.

 

Dustin had mediocre matches with Austin, Rude, and Arn And yet here we are aruging over if he was better than Sting.

 

I don't get this at all.

 

I accept that "the answer" isn't Sting. But I think he was better than he's being credited for here.

[Dylan Waco]

Eddy was born in the US. Bret and Benoit are Canadians. Obviously Eddy is the answer.

 

John

Not really the spirit of the question/discussion.

 

Volk Han and Stan Hansen aren't Japanese, but if I were rating the Best Japanese workers from the 90's, I would include both in the discussion.

[Mad Dog]

Rhodes is a more flexible worker than Sting. Sells better, better comebacks and a better tag worker. Sting was probably a better brawler and had better charisma. But Rhodes at his peaks was a notch below being an elite worker. Great offense, understood his role in the matches, always came back at the right times, always played his characters correctly. Rhodes gets overlooked in WCW because he was Dusty's son and he gets overlooked in the WWE because of that retarded Goldust gimmick. But look at his run with the WWE in 2002. He was an afterthought surprise in the Royal Rumble and he went on to form the best tag team of the year with Booker T. Great segments all year, played his character perfectly and he made the team click.

Was he more over than Sting? And if not, how can he be the better worker?

 

I've watched every single WCW PPV from 1990 to GAB 1996 in the past two years and the idea that Dustin is a better worker than Sting is frankly ridiculous.

 

Sting had great matches with good workers and people say he was carried.

 

Dustin had mediocre matches with Austin, Rude, and Arn And yet here we are aruging over if he was better than Sting.

 

I don't get this at all.

 

I accept that "the answer" isn't Sting. But I think he was better than he's being credited for here.

 

I listed both guys so I obviously think highly of both. My opinion is that Rhodes was a more complete package as a worker than Sting was. Sting was more over because Sting had more charisma. But Sting was also booked more competently throughout his career. Rhodes got over despite some really shitty gimmicks and storylines that hampered him in the WWE.

[Dylan Waco]

I actually like Sting more than most and considered putting him in the first listing, but assumed that he was someone that would struggle to make anyone's top ten when I thought about it more. Same with Jarrett.

 

Waltman is interesting I had forgotten all about him and would have no problem with him in someone's top ten. Despite how annoying he got as a presence he has a strong body of good matches. He was not the best worker in the States in 99. That would be Tajiri by a safe margin. If you want to disqualify him because of where he was born I would probably go with Little Guido in the two slot.

 

On Dustin, I could see how someone could like Sting more, but I can't conceive of anyway that he was a better wrestler. The charges of mediocrity against Rude, Austin and Arn interest me. What matches were these? I ask because something like Austin v. Dustin at HH 91 I regard as a GREAT match, on par or the better than any Sting match I've ever seen that didn't involve Vader. In fact I think Dustin's two matches with Vader are on the level of Sting's matches with Vader as well. I think Dustin smokes Sting as a tag worker, had a better since of structure, took better stock bumps (twisting bump, missed crossbody skip bump), was a much more consistent seller and I don't believe for a second that Sting was a better brawler. I love Jimmy Golden, but it is inconceivable to me that Sting could have had matches close to as good with Golden as Dustin did. I would put the top ten Dustin matches from the 90's next to the top 10 Sting matches without hesitation and STing doesn't have the depth to catch up. If anything he was less consistent than Dustin through the WCW years and post-95 both guys were spotty.

[Mad Dog]

Dustin's booking was really fucked in that 98-99 range. I don't think you can really blame him for not having any good matches in that time period.

[El-P]

Sting worked hard at times.

Sting always worked hard. He may not of worked smart, but the effort was/is never in question.

 

Crow Sting would also dog in matches in a big way. The Hogan return match in 1998 is a perfect exemple of Sting not putting any effort at all, while Hogan brought a lot more to the table. As the year went on, he worked harder on occasion.

 

As far as Waltman best US worker in 1999, I don't see the case at all. 99 was a rotten year in US, especially in WWF. What did Waltman do to warrant such a ranking that year ? In ECW you had Tajiri, Little Guido, Super Crazy, Jerry Lynn putting on excellent matches on weekly basis. Benoit in WCW was still quite the man in the ring. Waltman carrying Shane-O and Kane to watchable match sure deserves some credit, but I don'tsee him as being the best in the US at that time. Had he worked in ECW or WCW, it migt have been a different story, but WWF was a shithole in 1999.

[Mad Dog]

I picked him because he's honestly the only person that stands out to me anymore as having week in and week out good matches on television. He's certainly the only WWE worker I remember being worth a shit that year on a consistent basis. Benoit was okay that year but he was really hit and miss. Some really good matches, disappeared for months, really great match, disappeared for another couple of months.