Dylan Waco Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Biggest problems I have with Sabu: Aside from the RVD match in 99 that I really like, I don't know that I've ever thought Sabu was the better worker in one of his truly high end matches. I don't buy the "he blew spots on purpose!" talking point. Actually let me amend that slightly. I buy that he did it some, but I think it's overstated and there are plenty of instances where he pretty clearly WAS NOT blowing a spot on purpose. Why his best matches are really good, his worst matches are really bad. The worst of the RVD matches for example are fucking horrid. I think Sabu was a mess in tag matches. Just seemed to be far better in head to head battles None of that is meant to denigrate him as a contender. He's as good a top ten contender as anyone who has been mentioned in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 but I think it's overstated and there are plenty of instances where he pretty clearly WAS NOT blowing a spot on purpose. Are there really people out thear saying diffrent? I don't recall ever seeing the "Sabu would fuck up on purpose" talking point being used to prove that he didn't fuck up legit a good deal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Arguing for it as a point in his favor is intentionally or not a de facto way of suggesting he was muc less likely to blow things then he really was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Just throwing this out there because I don't have time for a big post, but Mikey may be my pick for best in the States in 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I just have to say that when the day comes that I rewatch 90s ECW and think that Sabu was a great worker is the day that I kindly invite people to shoot me. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Most of Sabu's best work came from Indies in the US - but his garbage matches against Funk (barbed wire) and Sandman (ladder) more than stand the test of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I saw Sabu work indy back then: some of it live like an enjoyable match where Terry Funk ended up under a car outside, some of it on video back when Sabu was The Next Big Thing. Can't count the number of times I saw him live... a fair number of the times he was out here in Los Angeles in the era because you were suppose to go see him. Last time I watched one of those matches on tape (probably the famed Waltman match), it kind of didn't to a lot for me. :/ I think the test of time with me passed not long into ECW. In general, I really get bored-hate for barbed wire matches right around the time of watching my first one in 1986: Fans & Co. vs Sheep & Co. Just never did a thing for me, and even guys like Terry and Sabu getting extra nutty in them... it just bores the shit out of me. If I happen to watch that one and the test of time makes me love it, I truly would be happy to get capped. On the Sabu-Sandman, probably not likely that someone that was this grump in the Torch about it at the time would find it a lot more watchable 14 years later: Wreck on the Highway: Joey Styles had one moment of brilliant revelation during the PPV. During the Sandman vs. Sabu match, it suddenly came to him like a lightning bolt in the sky that the two people who exemplify ECW are Sandman and Sabu. Two guys who are "hardcore" through and through, work hurt, do whatever it takes to get over, give it all for the fans, do jaw-dropping spots, can't wrestle a lick, miss more spots than you can count, and can't build or sustain a match if their lives depended on it. Joey Styles has never been so right. Put the two in a match with each other and it's a car rocketing down a highway out of control, with the only question being will it hit a tree, another car, or the center divider. We watch it, some with morbid fascination, others with stunned disbelief, and others appalled at the carnage. And of course there's the "Faces of Death" crowd that actually get off on it, all charged up to the point that they think they're watching a match of the year candidate. Nah, it was a wreck. Interesting, senseless, with little meaning beyond each momentary spot. I tend to enjoy the Sandman beer-swilling schlep gimmick, but after the fourth of a dozen table spots, on a night of 100 table spots, it all gets boring. It's like watching a dozen wrecks in a day, one every hour. After a while, watching it would neither fascinate nor repulse, but instead would become routine. God was I bitchy there... and that's probably the least bitchy part about the whole piece. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 and Sandman (ladder) ....you're talking about a match other then the Stairway to Hell match from PPV RIGHT????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 John, you could have just said that you disagreed with my point of view. To each their own on the ladder match, I guess. I think ladder matches are supposed to be cheap on the drama/storytelling element and be comprised mostly of extraordinary spots and bumps. I mean, some ladder matches have been worked in an excellent fashion, like the underrated Hardys/WGTT ladder match on, IIRC, the '07 ECW PPV. Excellent ladder match. Was completely different than a TLC match. It had some in-between-the-spots working that was effective. See, Sandman/Sabu didn't have any of that. Kind of like the barbed wire match being mostly the two of them being tangled up in barbed wire, as well, the bumps into the barbed wire. But the ladder match had some excellent bumps. Sabu and Sandman walked away from the arena that night extremely sore. I guess if you're disliking the matches because *you know* that the wrestlers *are* getting hurt/injured, yeah, but to say they sucked because they didn't have purposeful structure is quite a shitty thing to say. It was a ladder match. In ECW. If I want to see perfect *wrestling* I watch All Japan. But if I want to see two guys that are more than willing to take bumps that are blatantly real, fall from ladders, or wrap themselves in barbed wire and go insane, Sabu and Sandman are some go-to guys. It helps quite a bit already liking spotfests/garbage wrestling and not being a restrictive cranky super-smart-fan when you watch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Biggest problems I have with Sabu: Aside from the RVD match in 99 that I really like, I don't know that I've ever thought Sabu was the better worker in one of his truly high end matches. I don't buy the "he blew spots on purpose!" talking point. Actually let me amend that slightly. I buy that he did it some, but I think it's overstated and there are plenty of instances where he pretty clearly WAS NOT blowing a spot on purpose. Why his best matches are really good, his worst matches are really bad. The worst of the RVD matches for example are fucking horrid. I think Sabu was a mess in tag matches. Just seemed to be far better in head to head battles None of that is meant to denigrate him as a contender. He's as good a top ten contender as anyone who has been mentioned in this thread. You know, I can forgive spot blowing but Sabu really broke that pet peeve of mine. I hate when guys blow a spot and instead of just moving on and adjusting, they go right back and retry the spot they just fucked up. That's where Sabu's spot blowing would really piss me off sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 John you're confusing the N2R 97 match with Stairway to Hell. N2R 97 match was the bad match they had. Actually the only bad match they had. As it turns out, Sandman was fucked up on Acid during that match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 John you're confusing the N2R 97 match with Stairway to Hell. N2R 97 match was the bad match they had. Actually the only bad match they had. Please don't ask me to rewatched the Stairway to Hell match... please don't make it. I hated it at the time... lord I don't want to watch any of that shit again... Aw christ... *going into ECW watching and writing mode... apologize in advance if this offends anyone...* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQ1SBenJ_0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbxr-xXHigk Aw... lovely ECW Arena, how I've missed you so... Standard pre-match bullshit, though I'm missing the best part of a Sandman Match: the entrance. Standard early ladder bullshit killing a minute before our first COOL SPOT~! So we see Sandman having to lay there with Fonzie draping the chair across his back waiting for Sabu to legdrop him while Sabu goes walkabout briefly. When Sabu again goes walkabout rather than going for the cover, Sandman magically is able to kick out at a zero count when Sabu finally covers him. Right after the kick out at zero he has to lay under the ladder waiting for Sabu to go up to the top for a chair legdrop, and is so "out of it" that not only does he not move, but he then very noticably turns onto his side and shifts the ladder towards Sabu so that Sabu hits the move in the way that Sandman wants it... then kicks out at one. Wait, then he is so out of it that he casually rolls out of the ring, stands up next to the apron so that Sabu can baseball slide him over the baricade into the crowd. Okay, so the chair springboard thingy is a COOL MOVE~! Hmm... unprotected chairshot to the head. I hated those then, and watching this reminds me how much I still hate them. Pretty aimless crowd brawling... I'm reminded of how annoying ECW Fans were. Yeah... really aimless brawling up onto a stage, where there is a Magic Table hidden for Sabu to uncover. This is live a bad video game where Super Sabu Brother has to find the Mushrooms Tables to make him stronger. (Note: this would be in addition to all the tables around the ring in this match). Sabu has to ever-so-gingerly put the sloppy fat Sandman on the table while he climbs higher. Sandman, who a second earlier had been staggering aimlessly around the stage, is forced to lay down on the table after an extremely light kick to the stomach so that Sabu could go climbing higher. Now there happened to be a wall right there that Sabu could have bounced Sandman's head off to give Sandman a reason/excuse for laying there on the table waiting to get splashed rather than say... Rolling The Motherfucker Off The Table! What's kind of funny is that Sandman sits up after the spot in *less time* than it would have taken him to Roll Off The Fucking Table! But it's a COOL SPOT, so fuck it. More aimless brawling in the crowd... Sabu's brawling offense is really freaking light... wait... what's this... Sandman is OKAY!!! Couldn't roll off the table (because it would screw up a COOL SPOT~!), but could comeback after eating some of those lightweight punches and kicks from Sabu. Okay... More aimless brawling, and Sabu get the upper hand... no Sandman has the upper hand... hell, I'm having a tough time of keeping track as they can't figure it out. Oh wait, Sabu goes over to the barricade and Sandman goes back in the ring... this is the ladder suplexy toss into the crowd spot... YES~! Called that motherfucker. And Sandman's jawjacker ladder spot? COOL SPOT!!!! *reaching for my diet pepsi knowing that I'm needing repeated jolts of caffine to keep me up through this fucker* Sabu is selling that FUCK out of it. I wonder if this is going to keep him from doing a half dozen planned COOL SPOTS off the ladder and through all those tables? Sabu gets suplexed / thrown / heaved onto... or kind of more slopped between two tables. It's cool because he knows that Sandman was really suppose to heave him onto his stomach so that the coming Cool Spot would be to his back, so Sabu just slides around to drape himself across the table to give Sandman his back... while I'm suppose to ignore that if Sabu is in good enough shape to adjust his position for the Cool Spot that he's also is good enough shape to... you know... Get The Motherfucker Off The Table! I wish they had ECW while I was in college. This shit would have been awesome while drunk / high / stoned / zonked out of my fucking mind. That might be the reason I hated ECW in the mid-90s: I'd been sober for too long. So after the Cool Spot, Sandman kind of aimlessly wander away to... well... who the fuck knows. Then he wanders back past Sabu, who has to sell something-or-other while looking right at Sandman so that Sandman has enough time to set the table for the next Cool Spot before... well, it's a Magical Mushroom Table! Super Sabu Brother is magical better... except Sandman cuts him off... by throwing the other table into him (that must be a Bad Mushroom Table that sucks the strength out of Super Sabu), then a fist... which sends Sabu down to a kneeling position where he can watch Sandman set up the ladder for the other part of the coming Cool Spot... since Sabu is watching of course he comes over to pearl harbor Sandman... no, he walks right into it! And gets put on the ladded so that Sandman can do the Cool Spot onto it... while killing himself on table. Don't ask me... maybe Sandman thought the table would help break his fall rather than say not having it there to kill himself on. Cut him some slack... he's a drunk wrestler... it's complicated to think all this shit through. Sabu thinks he's Arn Andersen dangling down through the ladder. They roll back in the ring... you have to love Fonzie helping out Sabu by rolling the ladder back into the ring... wait... Fonzie rolls it right to FUCKING SANDMAN! while Sabu is down on the mat selling. Are you fucking kidding me? Okay... cut Fonzie some slack... he's a drunk manager who knows that there must be some Cool Spot coming up and they'll need the ladded in the ring. Sandman sets up the ladder for... something... well... I guess just to kill enough time for Sabu to bound up like he's Kurt Motherfucking Angle!!!! Sabu sells a headbutt, but that's Sabu "fake selling" again. He has a plan... 1. Let Sandman get all the way up the ladder 2. Get the barbed wire shit that's hanging over the ring 3. Then pitch Sandman off the ladder for a COOL SPOT!!! through the tables outside the ring!!! Woo-Hoo~! Motherfucking choreographed-spot-o-rama~! Sabu sets the chair for a chair dive... but sees something down in the floor that catches his eye... tells Sandman to get upright so that he can eat the spot and tells Fonzie to drag away parts of the broken table... this has such a organic, naturalist feel to it... this is like Steamboat and Flair just winging this shit knowning what the other is going to do... FUCK ME!!! Sabu runs the ropes to do the chair dive... but stops on the way to the chair because he's distracted the barbed wire that his magically appeared in the corner of the ring. I literally have to rewind to see how the barbed wire ended up in the corner... FUCK ME!!! The genuis that is Sandman: while he was suppose to be "surprised" by Sabu knocking him off the ladder, he was able to smoothly drop / heave the barbed wire into the ring rather than you know... not realize he was falling until too late and not let go off barbed wire until it would have fallen to the floor... so... Thank you for leaving it in the ring for Sabu to use on you in the next cool spot. Woo-Hoo~! Motherfucking choreographed-spot-o-rama~! Which of course Sabu almost forgot about, but remembered just in time to stop his dive and go get it. Er... of course this means that Sandman was in position to catch Sabu when Sabu came off the ropes the first time, and now has had to stand there with his thumb up his ass while Sabu went over to get the barbed wire, then wait for Saby to hold it up to the crowd so that ECW Fans could get a woody like when Jenna Jameson starts pulling down the zipper of her costar's pants... okay... I better not go with a porn analogy... so perhaps Sandman is going to pull a Kawada on Johnny Ace here: "Look asshole... if you're too slow in hitting the spot and hang me out to dry stand around waiting for you to hit it, I'm going to sidestep that slow shit and kick you really fucking hard for almost making me look like an idiot." Hmmm... there goes Sabu... Sandwada! Sandwada! Sandawda! Okay, the first thing in this clusterfuck that I've liked. ECW Fan is not happy, though. Sabu broke... something... it might be his chin on this one... Sandman is taking For Fucking Ever to set up whatever the hell he is setting up, and the great ECW Production is doing a great job of covering for it by keeping the shot on Sabu selling... which is getting pretty boring right about now. We get a brief shot of Sandman, who seems to be trying to do something with the barbed wire, but can't quite figure it out... PAUL E: "Cut to Sabu!!! Cut to Sabu!!!" Literally more than a minute has passed since Sandman sidestepped the chair dive and jerked around with the barbed wire. What is that common ECW garbage clusterfuck-o-rama complained? Take forever to set up spots? Bingo. So as not to expose how long this is taking, Sabu does roll back in to force Sandman to elbow drop him to give Sandman more time with his handywork. That out of the way, Sandman grabs another stand of barbed wire and goes back to work... Sabu gets back up to get wacked again, after which Sandman goes to get another strand... and Sabu has had enough of this... almost Two Minutes since the sidestepped chair dive. I'm not shitting: 1:52 of clock time. Just think of it this way: How many times could Sandman have chairshotted Sabu in 1:52? How many times could he have rubbed the barbed wire across Sabu's forehead and arms and back *outside* the run in 1:52? Instead, he jerks off with the barbed wire in the corner, allowing Sabu enough time to shove him into it... and then for Sabu to Bounce A Chair Right Off His Motherfucking Head~! As Sandman is selling in the corner with his back to the barbed wire, Sabu comes over to... I don't know what the fuck he's doing other than just grabbing his hair since he doesn't get close enough to bite him. Hair pulling is enough for Sandman: he senses he isn't bleeding enough from the prior blading, so as Sabu wanders off from the Hair Pull Of Doom, Sandman gigs the fuck out of himself again. Sabu with that weak ass clubbering to give Sandman more chances to dig the blade into his forehead... oh boy, I'm loving this shit... *refills my cup with diet pepsi because I've been throwing them back* There's a "Ric Flair gives Ricky Morton a training bra" video over in the corner of Youtube... it's got to be better than this shit... no... I have to stick through this... Sabu notices Sandman isn't bleeding enough, so he chokes him again... From the best spot of the match (Sandwada side stepping Sabu's chair dive that took forever to set) this match has gone into the total fucking crapper. Wait... it was in the crapper before that. The sidestep was like the dump backflowing up into the toilet before these two took the plunger out to try to force that turd back down into the sewer, where it's now on its way to the water treatment facility. But I disgress... Barbed wire neck collar for Sandman followed by one of the worst sets for the Tree Of Woe, as Sandman is busting his upside down chunky ass to help Sabu set it up and avoid getting dropped on his fucking head. Chair placed on face... chair set up to leap off... COOL SPOT~! We're now just past three minutes since the sidestepped chairspot and after going nowhere, we're back to the usual stuff. Work to the finish? Sabu is selling the broken jaw (or whatever the fuck it is), because we all know how damaging a chair diving drop kick to Sandman's chair covered face is to SABU'S JAW! Okay... so Sabu remembered about his jaw after forgetting about it for the past two minutes. Give him an 1/8th of a snowflake. It's rather funny to see how EASY Sandman rolls off of the Tree of Woe while Sabu is down selling the jaw... it's almost like... you know... he could have... maybe... I don't know... gotten out of the Tree before Sabu hit the move. Tree of Woe 101: don't get off the Tree unless you're opponent is suppose to miss the move. Tree of Woe 201: don't get off the Tree until the Ref or your Opponent help you off of it. For Fucks Sake... these idiots can't even get the Tree right? Oh, I see it... Sandman needed to set himself up for the next spot. He literally rolls past the selling Sabu to set himself standing in the corner where the barbed wire is on the turnbuckle, gives Sabu time to reset the chair... eats one of those weak ass Sabu kicks so he can stand in the corner... and have Sabu airball a chair dive into the corner onto the barbed wire. Welcome to My Turn, Your Turn Garbage Wrestling. You know Sabu... you could have taken that chair and simply Plonked Sandman Right In The Motherfucking Skull... and then set it down for the chair dive. Do I have to be as stupid as Sandman and Sabu to enjoy this shit? Well, Sandman is bleeding like a stuck pig, and got some barbed wire of his own, and there's the cane for a shot... and for some reason Sandman thinks that More Barbed Wire is needed in the corner that already has at least two big strands in it. I'm really glad I'm rewatching this at work with the sound off or I'd have to listen to Joey The Bump explain this nonsense to me. Fonzie is taping up the jaw... christ, I was joking about the broken jaw, but maybe this is the one where Sabu actually broke it (or pretended to break it in that great Intentionally Blowing Spots psychology of his). I'm so happy I brained dumped all the old ECW Timeline Factoids out of my head long ago... this stuff is almost fresh again... hmmm.. The match has come to a standstill again while this is going on... Funny, Sabu is A-O-Kay as we get a reversal on the whip into the barbed wire corner, with Sandman taking a floppy back bump into it. Don't ask me to explain how Sabu is magically better immediately after taking the airball bump into the barbed wire and then needed to get his jaw taped up. The only "psychology" to it is this: "Sabu has a move to hit" Arbian Moonsault, which is so off target that it kind of hits the side of Sandman's legs. Sandman is a King! selling the legs, and Sabu goes right to work on them by... Putting The Barbed Wire Collar back around Sandman's neck and hitting a springboard legdrop to Sandman's chest... well... sort of to his chest... maybe glances off it. Since Sabu won't help him get positioned, and Sandman knows another spot is coming, Sandman has to roll over off his back and make a focused crawl over in the direction where the Sabu Spot is probably coming from, then turn into the proper position so that Sabu can hit the chair legdrop off the top rope. It's as if Sabu just doesn't give a fuck about trying to make it look plausible: SABU: "I'm going to do some shit... it's your job to get over to where you need to be. Who gives a shit if it doesn't make sense... you're on your own to get there." Wait... WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?! After eating the chair legdrop (and I mean Sandman ate the chair right in the fucking side of the skull and Sabu *did not* miss it which is totally clear when you're watching with the sound off), Sandman simply gets up, has the barbed wire collar around his neck/head (admittedly a great visual) and the cane in his hand, cane's Sabu ones in the head... and gets the three count. Seriously? Really? You're fucking kidding me? As I'm thinking back on it, when was the last time the ladder was involved in the match? Just sort of farted out of the matches after the Big Bump To The Floor by Sandman, which was following by the Side Stepped Chair Dive. My lord... what a stunningly horrid match. Sorry for the tone, ECW brings that out in me. As it turns out, Sandman was fucked up on Acid during that match. So he had an excuse for N2R 97 sucking. What was the excuse for this one being laughably bad? Like I said on the last page, when the day comes that I rewatch 90s ECW and think that Sabu was a great worker is the day that I kindly invite people to shoot me. Since this was offered up as an example of Great Sabu, I'm pretty confident that I won't have to take out a contract on myself. This is 100% the same old Sabu that I remember. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 After that I'm vowing not to watch a single ECW match for the next year.* Someone remind me of that on 10/10/12. *unless it has Tracy Smothers or Tommy Rich. Let's be serious here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I don't think this thread will ever recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 It will be just fine. Most people will ignore my distaste for Sabu vs Sandman Ladder matches and move right along. As far as Sabu as a serious candidate for the Top 10 in the US for the decade, it's not like he can't survive my criticism. Anybody who is a legit candidat should be able to withstand someone pocking holes in *one* of their matches in a decade. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Sabu can survive criticism and has before. Sabu is a guy I've gone and fourth on for years. I tend to think he was a guy with a great mystique and a guy who was in a lot of good matches but was not a great worker on his own. To me Sabu is like Abby in that a big part of how you view him is how much you buy into his gimmick. I don't mean that as an "excuse" to cover his flaws either. I just think that he is a guy where his gimmick is such a big part of his working act that you can't separate one from the other and the more you enjoy it the more likely you are to think he's a high end guy on some level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 What was the excuse for this one being laughably bad? Because its not bad at all and is a great match. I mean a lot of your critique could be applied to 99% of every match ever. At some point you buy it or you don't. But don't go in saying Superman:The movie is bad, because you don't believe a man can fly. It is a drunken brawler fighting a lunatic and it felt like a fight. It felt like they were trying to maim each other. The finish with the cane shot worked because it was the cumulative damage he took. They had just got done maiming each other for twenty minutes. The cane shot was the knock out blow. It's not like the cane shot looked weak. It looked like it took his head off. Which is not even factoring in the rest of the match or Sabu having a broken jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Because its not bad at all and is a great match. I mean a lot of your critique could be applied to 99% of every match ever. At some point you buy it or you don't. But don't go in saying Superman:The movie is bad, because you don't believe a man can fly. Wrong analogy. Superman flying is the equiv in wrestling of it being Fake. I accept that it's fake. I don't accept it being Fucking Stupid. It is a drunken brawler fighting a lunatic and it felt like a fight. It felt like they were trying to maim each other. That would be why they go wandering around setting up COOL MOVES~! rather than doing things that you would in a Fight when you're trying to Maim someone. Fight: 1. Sandman in corner damaged 2. Sabu gets chair 3. Sabu skulls Sandman with chair 4. Sabu skulls Sandman more with chair 5. Sabu skulls Sandman with chair until Sandman is out and he's pulled off COOL MOVES~! 1. Sandman in corner damaged 2. Sabu gets chair 3. Sabu sets chair down infront of Sandman 4. Sabu runs and jumps off chair towards Sandman 5. Sandman has recovered by this time because Sabu Did Not Maim Sandman 6. Sabu splats himself into the barbed wire in the corner The first is a fight where Sabu would actually try to maim Sandman. The second is... well... Fucking Stupid. Don't sell the match to me as a fight where the two are trying to maim each other. That's bullshit. The match is a spot show of COOL SPOTS~! designed to jerk off the fans because the two couldn't actually tell a compelling story that could draw in those idiot fans. The finish with the cane shot worked because it was the cumulative damage he took. They had just got done maiming each other for twenty minutes. Christ... the match didn't even go 20 minutes. The two halves don't add up to 20, and that's before slicing off pre-match and post match. There is no cumulative damage: 1. Sabu was pefectly fine the second before 2. Sabu hit a COOL MOVE on Sandman that damaged Sandman more than Sabu 3. Sandman biazzare-sold it be getting to his feet with the cane 4. Sandman single-canes Sabu with a shot that's weak compared to what Sandman just ate 5. Sabu lays down for the three There is no cumulative. They just take it the fuck home. The cane shot was the knock out blow. It's not like the cane shot looked weak. It looked like it took his head off. You're kidding me. We've seen Sandman cane the fuck out of people in the past. That was nothing. Sandman ate harder chairshots earlier in the match. Damn... Sandman ate a harder chair on the legdrop right before it. Which is not even factoring in the rest of the match or Sabu having a broken jaw. Which is probably why he wanted to take it home. Either that or they were running low on PPV time. Weak ass finish, out of nowhere, and dumb as hell. If that's a prime example of a Great Sabu Match, I suspect that Sabu is going to have a tough time getting onto the Top 10. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 It is raining cold hard truths up in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Where? Don't sell the match to me as a fight where the two are trying to maim each other. That's bullshit. The match is a spot show of COOL SPOTS~! designed to jerk off the fans because the two couldn't actually tell a compelling story that could draw in those idiot fans. No it isn't. It was designed to be the fight in the context of ECW and the characters of Sabu and the Sandman. We've seen Sandman cane the fuck out of people in the past. Name a harder cane shot he has delivered. The first is a fight where Sabu would actually try to maim Sandman. The second is... well... Fucking Stupid. Don't really see the point here. Why doesn't he just gouge his fucking eye out in the first minute pf the match. Why jump off the top rope to do a move, when you can just punch him repeatedly? Why doesn't Sabu just put him in a front facelock the second the match starts and not let him go? He was trying to maim him in the context of a Professional Wrestling match. In particular a ECW professional wrestling match. So yes its not going to look like a "real" fight. No wrestling match does. Shit mma and boxing matches don't look like "real" fights. Christ... the match didn't even go 20 minutes. The two halves don't add up to 20, and that's before slicing off pre-match and post match. Pardon me my stop watch is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I wish they had ECW while I was in college. This shit would have been awesome while drunk / high / stoned / zonked out of my fucking mind. That might be the reason I hated ECW in the mid-90s: I'd been sober for too long. Totally stealing this for my sig! Which is probably why he wanted to take it home. Either that or they were running low on PPV time. Weak ass finish, out of nowhere, and dumb as hell. Yes, John, you're right about them going home so quickly because of Sabu's jaw. This wasn't a PPV, just a regular arena show. It wasn't uncommon for them to be there until 3 or 4 AM doing promos and pre tapes, so it wasn't because they realized they were short on time. Name a harder cane shot he has delivered. Any number of shots he'd given to Dreamer during their '94 feud. The loser-gets-caned match and the blowoff to the blind angle both stick out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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