jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Dana changes the welterweight title match "If this reads like Cowboy Bill Watts in 1985, it's because it was exactly like it." We're going to get months of this shit. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jacobi Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Dana changes the welterweight title match "If this reads like Cowboy Bill Watts in 1985, it's because it was exactly like it." We're going to get months of this shit. John You can criticize Dave all you want John, but this is an example of UFC not exactly acting like a true 'sport' in terms of their booking. Diaz was a total flake for months, got demoted, another less exciting fighter got slotted in, and low and behold, UFC abruptly drops him in favor of the more charismatic (and frankly crazy) one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I don't give a fuck - I love Nick Diaz. He's been my favorite MMA fighter since the first time I saw him fight. He's obviously nutty as shit but I'd be a liar if I didn't say that was part of the appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 The thing here isn't Diaz who is awesome but it's going to be CONSTANT pro wrestling lingo and comparisons that we are going to get before the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 You can criticize Dave all you want John, but this is an example of UFC not exactly acting like a true 'sport' in terms of their booking. Diaz was a total flake for months, got demoted, another less exciting fighter got slotted in, and low and behold, UFC abruptly drops him in favor of the more charismatic (and frankly crazy) one. You, and a lot of people, need to stop looking at the world through narrow, Pro Wrestling Goggles. CBS pushed Auburn in 2010. Why? The story developed over the course of the year that they were good and had Cam. 2009 Auburn Appearances on CBS November 27 - (2) Alabama at Auburn, 2:30 (ALA 26, AUB 21) That would be the Iron Bowl, which CBS has carried nearly every year since 2000. Other than that... Auburn was a mediocre team that didn't play much of a role in SEC Storylines. 2010 Auburn Appearances on CBS October 16 - (12) Arkansas at (7) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 65, ARK 43) October 23 - (6) LSU at (5) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 24, LSU 17) November 13 - Georgia at (2) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 49, UGA 31) November 26 - (2) Auburn at (9) Alabama, 2:30 (AUB 28, ALA 27) I'm leaving out the SEC Title Game, which CBS had no choice on carrying it: they simply do. Auburn was a storyline. They ended up making a run to the Title. They got covered. This isn't "pro wrestling booking". It's TV Sports. Go back and look at how many national Sunday Night and Monday Night TV games the Vikings got once Farve showed up, and then how they were flexed onto NBC down the stretch in that first year. Same with the Jets with Farve got there that first year. How much more do the Saints get onto TV since Peyton/Brees got there and turned them into a contender? Dave sees this through Pro Wrestling Goggles because first and foremost in his life, he's been an obsessive wrestling fan. It's consumed his life for the majority of his childhood, and the overwhelming majority of his adult life. He'll claim that he followed other sports, but to those of us who are insane hardcore fans of a wide variety of sports, Dave really is a piker on sports. A lot of us also see some things through Pro Wrestling Goggles because we've become obsessive wrestling fans during our life. But a lot of us have sports perspectives that predate become wrestling fans, and have spent most of our obsessive wrestling fandom also remaining obsessive sports fans. We've seen decades of how Sports Leagues, Sports Teams, Sports Players and Sports TV promote their product. Every time we see something like Shaq vs Kobe being promoted after Shaq left the Lakers, we don't instantly view it from the view point of: "Holy shit... the NBA is promoting this exactly like Bruno vs Larry, with Shaq as the legendary babyface and Kobe being the punky young protege going heel. Stern's even better than this than Vince!!!!" Or look at Farve vs Rogers as some pro wrestling angle. Sports Reality: the Miami Heat got a bigger TV push when Riley & Zo were good there, then fell off when the team slid, then got a monster push when Shaq went there, then fell off when the team slid, and then got the main event push again last year when Lebron went there. It's not pro wrestling. It's the way TV Sports has been covering this shit for decades. Pete Rozell was doing this shit before Bill Watts took over Mid South, and if you look at the ratings... he was doing this shit better than Watts. I got Tebow push today. Like Vick was before him. Like Manning was before him. Like Farve was before him. Like Aikman was before him. Like Marino was before him. Like Montana was before him. Like Fouts was before him. Like Bert Jones was before him. Like Staubach was before him. Like Tarkenton was before him. Like Namath was before him. I'd go back further, but I started watching the NFL in 1971 when I was 5, so it's hard for me to put out more personal memories than that. The thing is: Dave, and you, would think that Tebow getting put on my TV over some other bland team today would be because it's Pro Wrestling Style Promoting. To which I'd say: That's hitting the bong. It's what the NFL always has done. What Dana is doing isn't Pro Wrestling. It's what sports do, and what the rest of the entertainment world does. Pay attention to the Grammys show this year and who gets to perform on it. Then go back and look at the performers over the past 20 years. Current hot stars always get put on it, mixed in with some Legends who might draw their fans. Guys like Christopher Cross have had a hard time getting on the Grammys since he took that big, flukey haul of 5 Grammys one year. Pro wrestling? Or just the music and entertainment business? For the life of me, I don't know why I have to explain this to anyone. It's fucking obvious to anyone who doesn't have blinders on. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I don't give a fuck - I love Nick Diaz. He's been my favorite MMA fighter since the first time I saw him fight. He's obviously nutty as shit but I'd be a liar if I didn't say that was part of the appeal No one is denying that. On the other hand, Bret Farve was completely nuts for more of the past half dozen years (if not a hell of a lot longer than that). To a degree, for those of us who aren't Farve Fans, part of the appeal to him has been the utter trainwreck it's been. I've tuned in many a time for that trainwreck, and enjoyed it. Pro Wrestling? I hated the Fighting Irish in the 70s and 80s, and watched them hoping to see someone beat them. Pro Wrestling? Nah. I was doing that before I was a pro wrestling fan. It's just fucking sports. The only people who see it as pro wrestling are: 1. Pro Wrestling Fans who see the world through Pro Wrestling 2. People who hate pro wrestling John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Jacobi Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 You can criticize Dave all you want John, but this is an example of UFC not exactly acting like a true 'sport' in terms of their booking. Diaz was a total flake for months, got demoted, another less exciting fighter got slotted in, and low and behold, UFC abruptly drops him in favor of the more charismatic (and frankly crazy) one. You, and a lot of people, need to stop looking at the world through narrow, Pro Wrestling Goggles. CBS pushed Auburn in 2010. Why? The story developed over the course of the year that they were good and had Cam. 2009 Auburn Appearances on CBS November 27 - (2) Alabama at Auburn, 2:30 (ALA 26, AUB 21) That would be the Iron Bowl, which CBS has carried nearly every year since 2000. Other than that... Auburn was a mediocre team that didn't play much of a role in SEC Storylines. 2010 Auburn Appearances on CBS October 16 - (12) Arkansas at (7) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 65, ARK 43) October 23 - (6) LSU at (5) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 24, LSU 17) November 13 - Georgia at (2) Auburn, 3:30 (AUB 49, UGA 31) November 26 - (2) Auburn at (9) Alabama, 2:30 (AUB 28, ALA 27) I'm leaving out the SEC Title Game, which CBS had no choice on carrying it: they simply do. Auburn was a storyline. They ended up making a run to the Title. They got covered. This isn't "pro wrestling booking". It's TV Sports. Go back and look at how many national Sunday Night and Monday Night TV games the Vikings got once Farve showed up, and then how they were flexed onto NBC down the stretch in that first year. Same with the Jets with Farve got there that first year. How much more do the Saints get onto TV since Peyton/Brees got there and turned them into a contender? Dave sees this through Pro Wrestling Goggles because first and foremost in his life, he's been an obsessive wrestling fan. It's consumed his life for the majority of his childhood, and the overwhelming majority of his adult life. He'll claim that he followed other sports, but to those of us who are insane hardcore fans of a wide variety of sports, Dave really is a piker on sports. A lot of us also see some things through Pro Wrestling Goggles because we've become obsessive wrestling fans during our life. But a lot of us have sports perspectives that predate become wrestling fans, and have spent most of our obsessive wrestling fandom also remaining obsessive sports fans. We've seen decades of how Sports Leagues, Sports Teams, Sports Players and Sports TV promote their product. Every time we see something like Shaq vs Kobe being promoted after Shaq left the Lakers, we don't instantly view it from the view point of: "Holy shit... the NBA is promoting this exactly like Bruno vs Larry, with Shaq as the legendary babyface and Kobe being the punky young protege going heel. Stern's even better than this than Vince!!!!" Or look at Farve vs Rogers as some pro wrestling angle. Sports Reality: the Miami Heat got a bigger TV push when Riley & Zo were good there, then fell off when the team slid, then got a monster push when Shaq went there, then fell off when the team slid, and then got the main event push again last year when Lebron went there. It's not pro wrestling. It's the way TV Sports has been covering this shit for decades. Pete Rozell was doing this shit before Bill Watts took over Mid South, and if you look at the ratings... he was doing this shit better than Watts. I got Tebow push today. Like Vick was before him. Like Manning was before him. Like Farve was before him. Like Aikman was before him. Like Marino was before him. Like Montana was before him. Like Fouts was before him. Like Bert Jones was before him. Like Staubach was before him. Like Tarkenton was before him. Like Namath was before him. I'd go back further, but I started watching the NFL in 1971 when I was 5, so it's hard for me to put out more personal memories than that. The thing is: Dave, and you, would think that Tebow getting put on my TV over some other bland team today would be because it's Pro Wrestling Style Promoting. To which I'd say: That's hitting the bong. It's what the NFL always has done. What Dana is doing isn't Pro Wrestling. It's what sports do, and what the rest of the entertainment world does. Pay attention to the Grammys show this year and who gets to perform on it. Then go back and look at the performers over the past 20 years. Current hot stars always get put on it, mixed in with some Legends who might draw their fans. Guys like Christopher Cross have had a hard time getting on the Grammys since he took that big, flukey haul of 5 Grammys one year. Pro wrestling? Or just the music and entertainment business? For the life of me, I don't know why I have to explain this to anyone. It's fucking obvious to anyone who doesn't have blinders on. John John, In the NFL, NBA, MLB etc, a team *has* to win out in order to win their championship. In the end, the Cards won the Series because they had to beat everyone. Mavs, Bruins, etc In this case, guys aren't even getting the opportunity. UFC has been doing shit like this for years to guys like John Fitch and Carlos Condit, in not even giving them the chance. That's far different, and if you can't see that, then you're the one with the blinders on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 The thing here isn't Diaz who is awesome but it's going to be CONSTANT pro wrestling lingo and comparisons that we are going to get before the fight. Exactly. I kind of liked Nick in his first run with UFC, but his act got tired by the end of his Diego-Riggs-Sherk trilogy. Crazy Asshole gets tiring when the Crazy Asshole jobs all the time. He got on a roll over the past 3+ years and I was looking forward to him getting back into UFC. The division has been really deep, but GSP has run the table with them. Diaz is an interesting new opponent, and not for the Crazy Asshole stuff. I'd like to see him face Koscheck before Koscheck moves up to MW, though that might be too late... and again, it's for the Asshole vs Asshole stuff, but simply because it's an interesting match up between two fighters. I don't need to read three months of comps to Pro Wrestling. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 The crazy asshole stuff only goes so far. As I said it's part of his appeal but if he was a boring/dogshit fighter I wouldn't give a fuck about it. I've never seen a boring Diaz fight. He's clearly not the best fighter in the World and St. Pierre should be able to handle him (fairly easily I would guess). But he is a guy who can go on the ground or in stand up so he never really has a fight that leaves you thinking "fuck that wasn't entertaining at all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 John, In the NFL, NBA, MLB etc, a team *has* to win out in order to win their championship. Paul, You're misreading how Dave has drawn the lines before Pro Wrestling an Sports to be on my TV: Tim Tebow didn't have to "win" to get pushed on my TV today. He's a big star, so his game was the one chosen to be on my TV. In the end, the Cards won the Series because they had to beat everyone. Mavs, Bruins, etc Who was on national TV this year more: Yanks or Cards? In this case, guys aren't even getting the opportunity. UFC has been doing shit like this for years to guys like John Fitch and Carlos Condit, in not even giving them the chance. That's far different, and if you can't see that, then you're the one with the blinders on. Nick was the Strikeforce champ. He has a winning streak that warrants a title shot. Condit lost his first match out in the UFC. He's had to rehab to get a title shot. He didn't exactly light it up against Ellenberger. He done well since then, but had two injuries forcing him out of fights which slowed him down. Condit-BJ was to give him a name win and prep him for the title shot, if he won. I don't think Fitch got screwed around withing for his one title shot. If you look back at the division at the time, and factor in Serra's upset, Hughes at the proper person to get the shot against Serra, then Serra's injury and needing to get things cleaned up when he returned... Fitch was given pretty good respect to get the first shot at GSP's second reign. Has he gotten a bit screwed since then? Yes... and no. No in the sense that he got his ass completely kicked by GSP, to the degree that it sits in your mind as a match that you don't really want to see again. Yes in the sense that he's been on a streak since them, and to a large degree has been kept away from contenders since the Paulo Thiago fight. You sort of would have liked to see Koscheck go through Fitch before getting the title shot. But I'd also say that the string of unam dec / non-finishes aren't exactly the thing to get the blood boiling that he's improved to the point that you really want to see him in with GSP again. UFC doesn't do tournies where you can clearly see if Fitch beats Wrestler X that he's getting a title shot. I wouldn't offer up Condit and Fitch as guys who've completely gotten screwed by the UFC. Fitch got his title shot, and got his ass kicked. He's light on critical wins since then, and certainly had a chance with BJ to take out a major star in a major way to make a push for another shit. Condit was being set up in a similar way. Some better analogies? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I've never seen a boring Diaz fight. He's clearly not the best fighter in the World and St. Pierre should be able to handle him (fairly easily I would guess). But he is a guy who can go on the ground or in stand up so he never really has a fight that leaves you thinking "fuck that wasn't entertaining at all." I don't recall the Shrek fight as being good. I hate Shrek and look forward to anyone beating his ass in. My recollection is that it was one sided and not terribly interesting. But yeah... Nick's fights tend to be pretty interesting. He's damn skill, well rounded, and not one to lay around doing nothing. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 For nationally televised baseball, Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies dominated the Fox Saturday afternoon slot, Sunday afternoon TBS, and Sunday Night ESPN games. The league championship series teams -- Texas, Detroit, Milwaukee, and St. Louis don't even finish ahead of teams like the Cubs, Giants, Dodgers, and Mets in terms of those games. Winning helps to a certain extent, but what's hot now goes much further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazeUSA Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 So Dana White guarantee's Carlos Condit the NEXT title fight vs GSP, now its been changed? LOL, there goes White's word imo..... Condit can beat either guy anyways, Nate Diaz is just the ppv $'s flavor of the month, like Rampage & Brock used to be. GSP will finish this fight, that's my prediction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I've never seen a boring Diaz fight. He's clearly not the best fighter in the World and St. Pierre should be able to handle him (fairly easily I would guess). But he is a guy who can go on the ground or in stand up so he never really has a fight that leaves you thinking "fuck that wasn't entertaining at all."Exactly. I doubt there isn't another fighter who has such a strong resume of excellent fights (Lawler, Karo, Gomi, Wildman Denny, Shamrock, KJ II, Cyborg, Daley, Penn) with some of those being contenders for best fight of their year (if no-one has seen it I'd strongly recommend searching out the Thomas Denny fight from EliteXC). Even when not being in great fights, he has put on superb one man performances (against Smith and Zaromskis). So Dana White guarantee's Carlos Condit the NEXT title fight vs GSP, now its been changed? LOL, there goes White's word imo..... Condit can beat either guy anyways, Nate Diaz is just the ppv $'s flavor of the month, like Rampage & Brock used to be. GSP will finish this fight, that's my prediction! This being the same Dana White who promised Anthony Pettis a title shot, said he would still be getting it even after the draw, and then changed his mind to go with Edgar/Maynard III, and only now you are questioning Dana's word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazeUSA Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I've never seen a boring Diaz fight. He's clearly not the best fighter in the World and St. Pierre should be able to handle him (fairly easily I would guess). But he is a guy who can go on the ground or in stand up so he never really has a fight that leaves you thinking "fuck that wasn't entertaining at all."Exactly. I doubt there isn't another fighter who has such a strong resume of excellent fights (Lawler, Karo, Gomi, Wildman Denny, Shamrock, KJ II, Cyborg, Daley, Penn) with some of those being contenders for best fight of their year (if no-one has seen it I'd strongly recommend searching out the Thomas Denny fight from EliteXC). Even when not being in great fights, he has put on superb one man performances (against Smith and Zaromskis). So Dana White guarantee's Carlos Condit the NEXT title fight vs GSP, now its been changed? LOL, there goes White's word imo..... Condit can beat either guy anyways, Nate Diaz is just the ppv $'s flavor of the month, like Rampage & Brock used to be. GSP will finish this fight, that's my prediction! This being the same Dana White who promised Anthony Pettis a title shot, said he would still be getting it even after the draw, and then changed his mind to go with Edgar/Maynard III, and only now you are questioning Dana's word? your 100% correct there!at least Condit is SUPPOSE to get the winner if he wins his fight that night, Ive always liked him dating back to wec shows from years ago, I think he will be a solid fight for either guy, but i really expect gsp to put a severe beating on Diaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 at least Condit is SUPPOSE to get the winner if he wins his fight that night, Ive always liked him dating back to wec shows from years ago, I think he will be a solid fight for either guy, but i really expect gsp to put a severe beating on DiazCondit was superb in the WEC and pretty much ran through everyone. Brock Larson was wrecking people for fun until he faced Condit, whilst Condit's fight with Hiromitsu Miura is one of the unheralded fights of 2008. He had a great fight against Jake Ellenberger (which had to follow the Credeur/Quarry war) and after the first round it looked as though this was going to be better than that. It was also interesting over here in the UK, listening to people say how Dan Hardy was going KO him (don't get me started on Hardy's mythical KO power), even though it was clear to me that Condit was the toughest fighter he had faced (who wasn't named GSP) and was a far better fighter than the likes of Marcus Davis, 'Put to Sleep Quick' Swick and Rory Markham who he defeated to get a title shot. So yeah, I'm a huge Condit fan also and was pretty disappointed that he had his title shot took away from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 From Dave: Georges St. Pierre suffered a torn ACL according to a tweet by Dana White early today and is expected out of action for about 10 months. White announced Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz for the interim welterweight title as the new main event for the 2/4 show in Las Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 The injuries are not limited to just 2011 I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 "GSP just doesn't want to face me." -Nick Diaz coming to a screen near you John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 The injuries aren't going to stop with the ramped up schedule. Could be a trying year for UFC as they already have had to risk two big money matches in their effort to keep drawing ratings on FOX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFTV Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm really pumped for the Diaz/Condit fight tonight after watching the 3 UFC Prime Times building up their fight. It was pretty funny that when Nick was asked who he thought would win the Super Bowl as part of the pre interview screening he had no clue who was playing in the game. Nick vs. GSP will be awesome if Nick can get past Carlos tonight. GSP's interview last week talking about how badly he wanted to fight Nick and how he will go to a really dark place to beat him was the best GSP to date. There should be some fireworks from this UFC show after what a dud of a show last weekends Fox main card was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 So was there much sadness among the MMA=Pro Wrestling brigade that Conditt has to go and screw up the big money booking by beating Diaz? Or was the thought: * Diaz already has major heel heat * Diaz doesn't need to win to draw against GSP * Conditt is a vanilla babyface * Conditt needed more juice to draw with GSP * Diaz putting over Conditt helps elevate Conditt * Conditt vs GSP draws decent now * Diaz then can be moved up into a grudge match with the winner * even is Conditt pulls a miracle against GSP, they still eventually can go to GSP-Diaz for big money "You see... this isn't classic US Booking where you go with the instant big money, but a more layered Choshu-style booking where you can draw a number of big gates." -MMA=Pro Wrestling Brigade John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Good to see Diaz pull a Jeff Hardy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 At least he wasn't arrested for it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Was there a lot of crying by the MMA=Pro Wrestling Brigade? Nick is really screwing up their dreams. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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