Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Sean O'Haire, He was pegged as the next big thing in WCW. When Bischoff was coming back, reports were that he was really high on O'Haire and that he was going to give him a huge push as a result. Fast forward a few months. Undertaker goes out of his way to bury him for some lockerroom BS. He got jobbed out hard and was essentially off tv 6 weeks into the Invasion angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I disagree on Kidman. If you watch the last year of WCW, he was really adjusting to a more low risk style of offense. No more shooting star press as a regular move and it felt like he had lost a step. The switch to WWE seemed to fall right into his physical decline starting to take effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Has to be Bagwell For Bagwell: yeah was probably never going to be a main eventer but he was on seriously good money and in stable position as a long time home grown guy earning upper six figures. His personality and ring work was`more incompatible with WWE as anyone I could think of. I would mention Luger too but that's a tough one to tackle. Can really separate what were career tailspin elements and what were inevitabilities given his personal make up & what he put in his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Jason Jett wrestled in ROH in December 2002 and as previously mentioned was in HWA in 2001-2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 WCW: Chris Kanyon ECW: Justin Credible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 There was also a concentrated effort to fuck over a lot of the ECW/WCW crew in the E at the time though. DDP, O'Haire, etc. all ran into the Undertaker backstage. Booker T got over and then they made a point of not pushing him. I still don't know what happened to Mike Sanders either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm sure there were deeper, more selfish reasons but Undertaker's main criticism of the WCW guys was that they bumped on their sides instead of flat back bumps like the WWF guys took. That was his main issue with DDP. The deal with O'Haire was the lockeroom protocol stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 in retropsect knowing how important bumping, especially heel bumping, is within the company it probably caused a lot of turmoil for the ECW/WCW guys. It's probably the most important in house apsect of work within the company. as for DDP he was awesome in 97 but I thought he had grown stale by 99 or so. His mic work had deteriorated badly and I still drop in a 'scum" in my daily life <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Guys like Douglas or Jarrett could not get back in NY, not that either of them wanted back there anyway. Story I recall hearing was Douglas actually wanted to jump over as part of the deal with the Radicalz but Vince just didn't want him. Raven, Corino & Kanyon just didn't fit. It's funny to think back on Raven and remember that during his original run in the WWF in 93-94 he was good buddies with Shane McMahn and was being groomed for a high paying role backstage as a producer or something like that but he gave it up to remain a wrestler. Not that I blame him or think he made a bad choice, just interesting to think how things could have turned out so much more diffrently. Awesome was clearly a case of being a japanese guys anyway, and he was not getting younger, with a banged up bodies and no knees. Well, he was still only 35 or so when WCW closed so not that old. But yeah def was banged up. On the most recent Lance Storm show on the Observer site whear he does his big speach on how to properly do dives Lance talks about how Awesome blew out his knees doing them resulting in 2 major surgeries and sitll kept on. Basically because since he was often doing them to much smaller men he had to try and break his own fall a lot & because his opponents weren't ideal bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken. To further the DDP thing. He got that stupid motivational speaker thing over when they were trying to bury him and then had guys start squashing him every week as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 And to top everything off with DDP, he gave up a massive amount of money to go to WWE as he was one of the dudes that had a guaranteed contract with Turner to keep paying him even after WCW closed but he took the buyout instead cause he wanted in on the Invasion angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 The Scott Steiner run still astounds me in some ways. Their refusal to protect him at all really is stupid in hindsight. It still confuses me how HHH got out of any blame for how awful those HHH/Steiner matches were when he was the one calling the action. I watched his debut and the crowd lost their shit for him too. But that's how that era worked, bury anyone that was from WCW if they were too over. For as stupid as TNA is, they somehow figured out how to protect Steiner in his matches and use him effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Their Royal Rumble match was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 It was ridiculous but HHH had to work 20+ minutes on PPV in that era no matter what. So there you go, Steiner coming off a foot injury and his first match in a long time and HHH wants to work a long match. Steiner sucked in that match but HHH should take 90% of the blame for it. If you're calling the match, you need to know what your opponent can and can't do. But that whole feud was about HHH burying Steiner because he was a selfish prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think I read at the time that Vince chewed HHH out because he didn't like the way he worked the posedown angle going into the Rumble, but I guess that was quickly forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken. I thought it was neck problems that ended DDP's career. I don't know that bumping on your back would have much to do with those. Anyway, after thinking about it, I think you'd have to add Guerrero and Benoit to the conversation since there's a strong argument that going to the WWE was directly responsible for their deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I disagree with that. Guerrero was pretty fucked up at points of his WCW run due to the party atmosphere and Benoit went crazy from brain damage. I think there might be a slight argument for Guerrero but I think Benoit destroyed his brain doing the diving head butt. Benoit was going to do that no matter who he was under contract to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken. I thought it was neck problems that ended DDP's career. I don't know that bumping on your back would have much to do with those. Flat back bumping can cause concussions. It can most certainly cause neck problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 DDP was in his mid-40s and moved around pretty well for a guy that age until WWE made him start flat back bumping. He was done in months. Also, no way would Flair have lasted as long as he did bumping flat on his back, considering that he didn't work a light style and he was thrown around quite a bit. Also, look at lucha and how many guys can have long careers because they don't do that. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. DDP is an excellent pick. Went from headliner to joke who couldn't even wrestle anymore in record time after WWE decided to fix something not broken. I thought it was neck problems that ended DDP's career. I don't know that bumping on your back would have much to do with those. Flat back bumping can cause concussions. It can most certainly cause neck problems. From Dave's Misawa obit: "Most likely, if he had gone to a doctor in the U.S., like Steve Austin or DDP did when they had serious neck injuries, his level of his neck damage would have been discovered. It’s very possible, if not likely, he’d have been told, like Austin, DDP and Ted DiBiase had, that one more bad bump could leave him as a paraplegic. DiBiase retired at that point, although in the last year has talked of coming back for one last match. Austin and DDP wrestled a few times after that diagnosis, but got out for good, in the case of Austin, spurning some huge offers to come back, and at times considering them." I'm no doctor, but I would think it would take more than a few months of flat back bumps to jack up someone's neck to that degree. I'm not saying that it had no impact at all, mind you. EDIT: After reading up some more, it seems that what actually ended DDP's career was the neck injury he sustained in this match against Hardcore Holly on Smackdown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRyVqXSaM34 Check out the superplex at 3:44. Ouch. Also, I was under the impression that the main reason for luchadores bumping the way they do is the fact that the mats in Mexico are a lot harder than in the US and Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes, but WWE mats got really hard when they were on NBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Wasn't the deal with Sean O'Haire that they were punishing him because Piper (who he was inexplicably teamed with after the awesome vignettes before his debut) went on some show and bashed Vince/WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Wasn't the deal with Sean O'Haire that they were punishing him because Piper (who he was inexplicably teamed with after the awesome vignettes before his debut) went on some show and bashed Vince/WWE?That was a second time where they had buried O'Haire. They had taken him off of TV for a while during the invasion, were set to bring him back after Wrestlemania 19, gave him weeks of hypes with those vignettes, before his push died again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Anyway, after thinking about it, I think you'd have to add Guerrero and Benoit to the conversation since there's a strong argument that going to the WWE was directly responsible for their deaths.But they didn't go to the WWF because their company closed though. I don't agree with Shane Helms at all. The guy ended up having a nigh on nine year run with the WWE and with the exception of Chavo, out of the initial 24 contracts that the WWF picked up, he had the longest tenure of anyone. Nine years of regular, solid income, can't say he did too bad out of WCW closing. Corino suffered in more ways than one. He either had, or was scheduled to, sign with WCW (after Dusty pushed for him) right before the company closed (I've seen his shoot interview, but forget the specifics). When WWF purchased the company, he was no longer required. He's had a decent run on the Indys and I am guessing made a good living, but it would have been no where near the same had WCW not died. I've seen a few of the younger wrestlers mentioned, but Kid Romeo and Reno (Rick Cornell) pretty much vanished into obscurity. Picked up by the WWF, then sent to HWA, I think they had a couple of dark matches each, released, and not heard from again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 How about Arn Anderson as an on-air personality? I am sure that if WCW was still going Arn, as an NWA/Crockett/ WCW guy would be on screen a hell of a lot more. I mean how many times did the WWE acknowledge the Flair - Arn connection during Flair's last run? Two times? Three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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