Greg Valentine

[Exposer]

Between the strong early showing, the awesome mid 80s showing with the IC Title and the nice swan song with Garvin at the end, Valentine will be all over the revamped set. Seriously, a guy that was short changed on the first set who will come out of the next set looking like a million bucks!

Yeah, Greg is going to be represented BIG TIME on this new set. Including stuff not many people have seen before.....

[jdw]

Yep. I think there will even be some Dream Team tags in there too.

Yep. The Toronto Pre-Dream Team match with Tito & Steamer is quite good by WWF standards. Mania II is a spot-a-thon, but certainly has a lot of good spots to carry it.

[jdw]

Meaningless depth

For a guy who took his ball and went home in two prior threads, you do seem to continue to obsess about the topics you bailed on.

 

Just to be clear, the "Depth" entered the restart of the thread here:

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=52

 

Meaningless enters here:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=64

 

In the context of "You can say WWF were wasteful in shoving so many big name guys into meaningless mid-card fodder matches..."

 

Depth is also in that post.

 

Same poster in both.

 

You.

 

It was another two days before Tom had introduced "meaningless shit" and "meaningless garbage" here in response to one of your silly posts:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=97

 

And another day before Dylan put turned your "meaningless mid-card fodder matches" into the famed "meaningless depth":

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...epth&st=106

 

But you laid the ground work three days earlier.

 

I hate to break it to you, but I suspect that Dylan would call the Valentine-Blazer match one of those "meaningless mid-card fodder matches", even if it happened to be a good match.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

Thanks for no-selling my joke man.

 

You know jdw, that post you made has made me lose some respect for you. I made a fripperous two-word call back and you take it as an invite to write that? What are you a psychopath? I don't get it.

 

I was reading the FT the other day and came across a quotation that reminded me of you. "If you are never wrong, you are never interesting." If you want the truth of why I continue to bail on arguments with you it's that. I hate to break this to you, but everything about that post you made was tiresome. Mundane. Boring. I almost can't believe you took the time to make it. What you want a full-on argument with me? Is that it? Life's too short. I don't care who you are, or what you know, or how long you've been around: if you want to be a dick I'll call you out on it.

[ohtani's jacket]

That Harley/Koko match sure ain't worth picking at scabs.

[jdw]

I was reading the FT the other day and came across a quotation that reminded me of you. "If you are never wrong, you are never interesting."

I'm wrong often. I cop to it as well.

 

Another assumption you make from the prior threads which is faulty.

 

John

[Johnny Sorrow]

Thanks for no-selling my joke man.

 

You know jdw, that post you made has made me lose some respect for you. I made a fripperous two-word call back and you take it as an invite to write that? What are you a psychopath? I don't get it.

 

I was reading the FT the other day and came across a quotation that reminded me of you. "If you are never wrong, you are never interesting." If you want the truth of why I continue to bail on arguments with you it's that. I hate to break this to you, but everything about that post you made was tiresome. Mundane. Boring. I almost can't believe you took the time to make it. What you want a full-on argument with me? Is that it? Life's too short. I don't care who you are, or what you know, or how long you've been around: if you want to be a dick I'll call you out on it.

[Matt D]

I'm in the valley of death here.

 

Greg Valentine vs Don Muraco, 06/06/88

 

Let's see what ol' Greg can get out of Lazy Don. Shine segment is actually a lot of fun. They keep meeting up only to have Muraco outwrestle Hammer. He looks good here, putting intensity into a lot of what he does including a good backslide and some other fun stuff. Valentine gets increasingly frustrated until he hits a cheapshot in the corner and takes over. He hits some nice looking blows before slapping on a chinlock. This isn't all that bad though as the crowd is into it and Muraco sits in it exactly as long as he should have before hitting some huge elbows to get out. It's just a hope spot as we have an inverted atomic drop to transition and I'm so glad we don't go right back to the chinlock. Oh wait, nevermind, after some awesome skull elbows, we're right back to it. For some ungodly reason the crowd is still sort of into it until Valentine lays down with it, at least. Muraco's fighting a bit, but it's pretty lame. No, actually Valentine does a pretty good job of switching it up with a knee, an attempt to pin and a drape over the top rope. It makes the chinlock better since it feels like it actually WAS a wear down. Good on Valentine.

 

One chop too many and Muraco gets pissed and starts charging Greg down. Greg takes a powder and we go to break. We come back and there's barely any cut at all. Valentine lures him into the corner and takes over with some cheap knees. Greg dismantles Muraco with a slam, a top rope clubber, a elbow, before tossing him out. Greg pummels Don on the apron and he's really laying it. And then we get an Abdominal stretch which Monsoon shits on. The leg is not properly hooked and they're sweating too much. Greg goes to the top rope and immediately gets caught but hey, it keeps things moving. Hammer goes for a roll up but gets kicked in the face, which pisses him off so he goes for a choke. Muraco gets some knees up a moment later, though. Hammer back to the top but this time. Muraco catches him. Nice call back. Flair Flop. Transition.

 

Muraco unloads pummelling and chucking Valentine around. Hits a big shoulder breaker which Valentine sells with quiver legs. Greg escapes out but Muraco follows and Greg nails him first on the outside and then on the inside for another transition. Big elbow to the skull but Muraco gets a leg on the rope. Valentine goes to start working on it but Muraco moves. Valentine tries a slam and gets falled on. We get a ref bump, a funny elbow drop on him. Muraco's totally out of steam at this point and does the worst shoulder into the corner you'd ever see. Tries it again and Valentine takes over with a knee and cheap pin but the ref calls for the bell. They give the match to to Muraco for the funny elbow on the ref.

 

Anyway, this was easily the best face Muraco match I'd ever seen. He was dead to the world at the end,but for most of it they did a pretty good job and Valentine was great on offense.

[Matt D]

Dream Team vs Islanders - 11/24/86 MSG

 

I was actually looking for the new Dream Team match because I figure people hadn't seen it recently, but hey, I guess we'll go with this. Lots of stalling and breaks to start. I actually like how Johnny V always went to the announcer booth. Hammer begs off after trying an elbow to Haku's skull. I love how Valentine sells the whole body on the Atomic drop, first the head then the back. Tama's offense on the shoulder looks good. Valentine's great at begging off. It actually helps the shine stay out of HIP territory since Valentine breaks it up with stooging. Beefcake comes in and we really ought to have the heels take over. Instead we get more armwork, some clumsy but energetic back and forth. Beefcake stalls too and does his own backwards flop, but we're in the land of heel in peril diminishing returns here. Beefcake does some little stuff ok in an attempt to counter wrestle, but it's not exactly compelling.

 

We get a lackluster heel tag as Beefcake just walks over while in an armbar, and Valentine takes over with a really cruel tombstone. A bit of clubbering on the apron and a kind of lame cross body hope spot since we'd already seen that before in the match. I've seen Tama look better. Beefcake taunts Haku pretty well. He's been at this for a few years now and does a pretty good job controlling the ring even if his offense is sort of haphazard. We get a hope roll up out of a figure four attempt, but Valentine nails Haku on the apron to help prevent the hot tag. It leads to a reversed supletx and the real hot tag. Haku is pretty good demolishing guys. Things break down, Tama gets crotched behind the ref's back, and a hundred years later we get a pin.

 

This wasn't very good.

[voicesinmyhead08]

Greg Valentine vs. Bob Backland, Madison Square Garden 1981, Main Event for WWF title.

Comments: One of the best matches I have ever seen with Valentine, no exaggeration. Every move in the match had a purpose and there was no wasted movement by Backland or Valentine. I loved the headbutt spot where both men wobbled around and then fell backwards. I am a huge fan of the working on a body part during a match, and Valentine working on Backland’s leg while setting him up for the figure four was methodical and damn near perfect. Both Backland and Valentine seemed to be striking eachother with authority, every blow was damaging and teeth rattling. The forearm strike exchange near the latter portion of the match was unbeilivably brutal and awesome, it looked like they were trying to see who could hit harder. The variety of reversals used by Backland to thwart off the figure four was exciting and refreshing. I loved the scare of the figure four leg lock throughout the whole match. The almost instant defeat of Valentine via a backslide by Backland at the beginning of the match was awesome considering Backland had just mirrored all of the same moves Valentine had just executed on him seconds earlier. Essentially Backland would have one the match in a minute or so if it hadn’t been for Valentine’s awesome struggling role out of the backslide where he fell onto the ropes to break the count. I also thought it was tremendous when both men were exhausted headbutting eachother on their knees. This match may have also had one of the best finishes I have ever seen in wrestling. Valentine giving Backland an airplane spin which caused Backland to accidentally knock down the referee, and then Backland positioned himself on Valentine in midair to take Valentine down to the ground in a pinning position. Because the ref had just been kicked in the face, he only had the awareness to know that a pinning attempt was taking place, therefore he counted to three. At this point, Valentine did the most awesome thing I have ever seen, he jumped in the air after being pinned and acted victorious as if he was the sole and absolute winner of the match. Because Backland had pinned Valentine, he was furious when the ref raised Valentine’s hand in victory because Valentine had just pretended he had pinned Backland when in fact that was not the case. Ultimatley, the WWF staff came to the decision that the match would end in a no contest, and the title would be held in limbo until other action be taken.

[shoe]

The forearm exchanges are just amazing. I said earlier I lost my shit, and it's not an exaggeration. Some really stiff stuff.

[Exposer]

In my opinion, NO ONE does forearm exchanges like The Hammer.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Incidentally, enough I was just about to rave about The Hammer's forearm exchange. Just gotta love when everyone is on the same wavelength.

 

Tabling the Rougeaus for now, but the New Dream Team got me reinterested in Valentine. I never was able to find the cage match with Tito in full. I am skipping to the first SNME match with the Bulldogs. Seems like the Dream Team only feuded with the Bulldogs during their reign.

 

WWF World Tag Champs Dream Team vs British Bulldogs - SNME 3/1/86

 

They show a clip of the Bulldogs beating the Dream Team non-title and the finish was sweet for any time period. Davey Boy did his running power slam on Beefcake and then hoisted up Valentine fireman's carry style and then Dynamite jumped on Valentine while he was on Davey Boy and hit his diving headbutt to win. I marked out.

 

This was an offensive showcase for all the Bulldogs' high tech offense, plain and simple. Matches like these will never be rated among the greatest, but at the same time I never complain about them especially when a team like the Bulldogs is being showcased because they are so good at offense. It never feels like heel in peril because there are literally no holds. It just slam bang spots from the Bulldogs. The only problem is that it is Valentine and Beefcake taking them. I like Valentine a good bit, but this match isn't exactly his forte. He is much better in even, long-ish brutal or scientific matches. These matches pretty show he has his one "TIMBAHHHH" bump and other than that he doesn't do a great job putting over the Bulldogs. It is serviceable, but not great. Beefcake sucks. I forgot how truly shitty he is.

 

The best parts of the matches were the Hammer's forearm exchanges with each of the Bulldogs. On the first one, Bulldog answered with a dropkick, but in a nice touch he really sold Valentine's offense (maybe he didnt have to ). Then second exchange with Dynamite led to the very brief face in peril segment where the Hammer actually hit his second rope elbow. Dynamite pushes him off on the figure-4 attempt; Valentine takes the Flair gorilla press slam bump off the top. Just as the Bulldogs seem like they are closing in on the titles, Dynamite and Valentine collide on a criss-cross and Valentine falls on top.

 

If I ever wanted to show somebody the Best Hits of the Bulldogs, so to speak this would be the match. I actually think that was a good finish because the story of the match was how much the Bulldogs dominated, but fell short due to unfortunate circumstances. It makes you want to see the Wrestlemania II match. It is an effective and fun match.

[Ricky Jackson]

I enjoy your reviews Superstar. Makes me want to mark out for some Bulldogs too.

[Matt D]

US Tag Champions Terry Taylor(The Taylor Made Man)/Greg Valentine vs Zenk/Bagwell WCW Pro (Chicago) 3/21/92 - Non Title match

 

I love the idea of over the hill Valentine teaming with utterly irrelevant Taylor in his ridiculous post York Foundation Gimmick. In 1992. In WCW. Holding straps.

 

This was a pretty fun match actually. Not a ton of Valentine, really, but his stuff looks good, both his hammy selling and his pretty stiff blows. I like 91-93 Taylor more than most people does. I think he's a little artificial in his heeling but sometimes that's not a bad thing. I wouldn't want it all the time, but he's practically mustache twirling while kicking out that gutwrench powerbomb during these years. Anyway, this has 3 FIPs, the second and third being pretty good, with the final one having a hot tag and a fairly interesting closing section. Valentine definitely still had something to offer even as late as 92.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I enjoy your reviews Superstar. Makes me want to mark out for some Bulldogs too.

Well there is no shortage of Bulldogs/Dream Team online that is for sure.

 

Thanks! I watch a shit ton of wrestling so I figure I might as well start documenting my reactions. Plus I think any and all writing helps one's writing/communication skills so I have have deluded myself into think that this is improving myself. So how do you guys put your prolific wrestling writing output on your resumes?

 

WWF World Tag Champs Dream Team vs British Bulldogs - Wrestlemania II

 

Beefcake's total amount of time in this match is literally one minute. Thank God. At one point, Gorilla says Valentine has been in there a while and whilst the Hammer conferring with Luscious Johnny V remarks he can't believe Johnny V wouldn't advise a tag out. All I have to say is Gorilla have you seen Beefcake wrestle? Of course, Beefcake's one big move is actually a nice hammerlock slam that was perfectly fed to him by Davey Boy and perfectly setup by Valentine's arm work, but it doesn't stop Gene and Gorilla from going gaga over the Beefer's one move. Give me Dino Bravo every day over that chump.

 

This begins as less of an offensive showcase for the Bulldogs. They still get in their assortment of suplexes (Davey Boy- delayed vertical and Dynamite's snap) and Davey Boy does a gorilla press slam, but Valentine is able to get in a few forearms edgewise throughout. I wouldn't go so far to call spot monkeys like the Steiners (who I love, even though I know most people around these parts arent too fond of), but you do get the feeling that don't really give much of a fuck about structure. Case in point, Dynamite forces Valentine to do the TIMBAHHH bump twice, when he could have done a better job to maximize its effectiveness.

 

Valentine irks me as he randomly just picks up Dynamite at one point and gives him what can be best described as a reverse tombstone piledriver. It just annoys because it felt so much like "Ok now it is my turn" rather him even doing an eye rake to set that up. That does setup Valentine doing his best Flair impersonation, crotching himself and then taking the gorilla press slam. The Bulldogs go for the rocket launcher diving headbutt, but Valentine does some cat and mouse is able to the knee the fuck out of Dynamite (those were pretty vicious). Davey Boy comes in only for his shoulder to eat steel setting up the face in peril segment. Valentine shoulder-breaker and usual hammerlock related offense including Beefcake's sole contribution to the match, I mentioned above. Valentine makes the cardinal mistake of overconfident heels and picks up Davey Boy after the shoulderbreaker.

 

Davey Boy throws Valentine off who collides with Dynamite head first standing on the turnbuckle. Dynamite takes a wicked bump off-camera and the Bulldogs win the titles. I actually like that finish as a callback to the SNME finish. This match was an outstanding one man effort by Valentine as he was bumping and selling for the Bulldogs better because he made this into more his style match as a brutal strike based match. However, he still let the Bulldogs get their spots in. As evidenced by Beefcake's inability to take Dynamite's hooking clothesline in the last match, he clearly was not the man to do that. I have watched the Funks vs Tito/JYD recently, while that is good. This match is still my pick for the best match at the woeful Wrestlemania II card.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Greg Valentine vs Davey Boy Smith - 10/20/86 MSG

 

I was pretty pumped when I found out this match exists, but it never reaches unheralded classic status I hoped it would. If Davey Boy bothered selling, maybe things could have been different, but as the match is it is just a plain 'ol good match between two very good wrestlers. What sets Valentine apart from the rest of WWF at this point is just how stiff he lays in his shots. It really gives his matches a special feel. They trade bearhugs, which is actually a unique way for Davey Boy to show off his power. Valentine really starts to lay into Davey Boy with forearms and then his shoulderbreaker. I am not against the shoulderbreaker, I think it is a move that should be utilized more frequently, but I don't really get why "Master of the Figure 4" Greg Valentine would be using it. Valentine begins working on the leg, but that ends up being no sold as Davey Boy slaps on the Sharpshooter of all things. Had Bret even debuted the Sharpshooter at this point?

 

So much for that leg work as Davey Boy does a delayed vertical suplex and his powerslam. Valentine does his cat and mouse game trick. Does anyone really believe Valentine could outrun Davey Boy? Davey Boy was struggling to go slow enough to not overtake Valentine, maybe if he sold the leg it wouldn't look so phony. Valentine with some stomps and here comes the figure-4, but Davey Boy gets to the ropes. Davey Boy immediately hits a dropkick. What is selling?

 

Weird finish as Valentine pretty much out of nowhere double legs Davey Boy and hold onto the ropes to pick up the victory. This match suffered from the 80s WWF hyper-compression issues. Did any WWF match from '84-86 ever go over 25 minutes? The finish didn't make sense because the Bulldogs were about to be programmed with the Harts and the Dream Team shunted down the card. Plus it felt like they just cut the match off prematurely. There is good stuff here and there is no reason to believe that these two could not have delivered an all-time classic, but I just dont think Hulkamania era WWF was the right setting for these two to deliver that.

[ohtani's jacket]

I watched every Dream Team/Bulldogs match known to man at one point. Didn't write much about them but this will at least let you know what's online:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...1910&st=100

 

I recommend the Dream Team/US Express title switch with the awesome finish.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I recommend the Dream Team/US Express title switch with the awesome finish.

Man, that pissed me off so much at the time. I loved Windham and Rotundo, and they lost to Valentine and Beefcake? I was like, " Since when are they a team?"

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Between the strong early showing, the awesome mid 80s showing with the IC Title and the nice swan song with Garvin at the end, Valentine will be all over the revamped set. Seriously, a guy that was short changed on the first set who will come out of the next set looking like a million bucks!

Yeah, Greg is going to be represented BIG TIME on this new set. Including stuff not many people have seen before.....

 

Awesome.

 

I created this thread a while back because Valentine seems like one of those guys I should know more about, and should have a better rep, but for some reason, he's still under the radar.

 

Sounds like he will no longer be under the radar once the revamped WWF set is released. I get that Valentine's WWF work is still probably not a fair representation of his career, but it's better than nothing.

[Exposer]

This has been touched on before but I imagine a ton of great Greg is probably in the 70s where footage is marginal. However, I've definitely gotten a better idea of how great Greg was by watching his WWF stuff.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Actually isn't his WWF work a fair representation by default. He worked WWF against Backlund in '79 and '81. He worked full-time for the WWF from 1984-1991. Seven years of prime Valentine is hard to ignore as the definig representation of Valentine as a worker. Outside of the Dog collar match with Piper, does he have any notable matches outside of the WWF? I acknowldge that Valentine was clearly a Crockett-style worker working for the WWF, which lends his matches in the WWF a different atmosphere to them, but that doesn't stop the fact that at the end of the day Valentine was a WWF performer for the majority of his career. If WWE Hall Of Fame required to pick your hat like the Baseball Hall Of Fame, then there is no doubt that Valentine would choose a WWF hat because of the success and length of his WWF run.

[ohtani's jacket]

By default, yes, but his Crockett work from '76-84 is probably a better indicator of his work given that practically everyone who worked for Vince was better in the territory they came from.

[JerryvonKramer]

By default, yes, but his Crockett work from '76-84 is probably a better indicator of his work given that practically everyone who worked for Vince was better in the territory they came from.

Is there anyone who bucks this trend? I want to say Savage. That it?

[Matt D]

Man Savage was awesome in ICW and Memphis.

 

You're a HUGE Garvin fan, right? you can't tell me you've never seen the Savage vs Garvin cage match from ICW.

 

Youtube Savage + Garvin Cage and then tell me what Savage WWF is better than that.