Loss Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Talk about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Parejas Incredibles match? Something else? I don't know. Weird to see Fuerza and Octagon teaming after their war just six weeks earlier, but I guess this is a different setting. The crowd is completely muted for the announcer, which is unfortunate. Fuerza and Octagon end up winning the first fall by DQ when Shadow catches Fuerza with a low blow, and for once, it's not Fuerza faking it! I always make this point about Fuerza, but it bears repeating that it takes a talented guy to look that foolish. The second fall ends and something weird has happened, as now Black Shadow is covering Santo for pin attempts and everything. It doesn't make sense, and the whole thing becomes really hard to follow. Anyone up for explaining this? I might be inclined to really like this match if I understood it, because Santo's selling and bloody comeback are pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Relevos Suicidas. Losing team fights in a Lucha de apuestas. Shadow decided he was going to take Santo's mask right then and there, so he fouled Fuerza. Rewatch with that in mind, because it's a great match that makes me wish we had more of Shadow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Relevos Suicidas. Losing team fights in a Lucha de apuestas. Shadow decided he was going to take Santo's mask right then and there, so he fouled Fuerza. Rewatch with that in mind, because it's a great match that makes me wish we had more of Shadow. Thank you. Knowing these things always helps. That made a huge difference! Just that detail of Shadow throwing the match so he could face Santo and unmask him is a huge thing that makes this awesome. They follow it up with great work like I mentioned before. Santo does an awesome selling performance of this at the beginning, with Fuerza acting as an appropriately sleazy lackey for Shadow, and Octagon (and Perro) now rooting for Santo. Santo comes back and does one of his trademark beautiful dives on Shadow while covered in blood. As great as Santo is, his greatness is known to me and Black Shadow's isn't, so that is what stands out the most for me here. The opportunism, the cheating tactics, the aerial moves and his bumping when Santo goes on the warpath makes this a fantastic match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 So I heard mascara contra mascara enough times to pick up on that and was able to figure out the stips from there, knowing that 3/4 of the guys here weren't losing their hoods. But I didn't pick up on Black Shadow being so blatant about wanting to go after Santo's mask until reading this--and that's awesome. I also love Fuerza just sort of standing idly by while Shadow whoops on Octagon, and is completely taken by surprise when Shadow turns and clobbers him as well. That's some primo, Royal Rumble-type shit. Black Shadow, I would assume, was attempting to avenge his father's mask loss to El Santo,* and the legendary ancestor's offspring facing off against each other comes off as a big deal even with the muted crowd noise. There's some great outside brawling here and Santo laying among a pile of chairs with his mask turned red is an incredible image. Shadow looks real good and this is a low-level lucha MOTY. * So he's not actually related to Black Shadow at all, just using the name. Doesn't change things that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 This blew away the Thundercats -Trio Fantasia match in terms of building drama. I was glad I had read Bix's post before watching, because I would have found the rules confusing. But knowing the set-up, I loved the way Black Shadow staged his run at Santito's mask. I'm a sucker for Santito bleeding through his mask, and this was one of the more dramatic examples I've seen. All the brawling outside came off as really intense and crazy, and both guys showed great fight through the nearfalls. This might be my lucha MOTY. I had never heard of it before and really loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Would've been a bit confusing if I hadn't read this topic beforehand. I don't think Shadow did throw the match. It looked to me like he just got frustrated at not being able to put Guerrera away. There was no logic to him getting involved at all in the tag match except laying down if he wanted to lose. As it is he wrestled longer than Santo so went in at a disadvantage to the decider. Regardless it was a highly dramatic mascara con mascara between the losers. Santo bled heavily through his and was in all sorts of trouble. It was a real close call with plenty of near falls. Strong action and psychology. It might have been a MOTYC. I say 'might' because it was clipped up, had no crowd sound and a studio voiceover. It was extremely frustrating and certainly had a negative impact on the viewing experience. I can only rate what was shown rather than project what might have been. A lot better than nothing but I'd love to see the raw footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yeah I had to watch this twice and with all of the context, it was bloody brilliant. Santo bleeding through his mask and diving for his livelihood always seems to get me amped and this match did a better job of it being more in peril than usual as he hits an absolute gusher and Black Shadow doesnt give a shit and hits stiff punches on it. His comeback and eventual win was extremely satisfactory. I don't think lucha in 1991 had a blowaway MOTYC like 1990 had plenty of but it has had a ton of great variety and interesting stuff like this match/Thundercats/Brazo trios and the Dandy/Satanico, Chain Match, and Oro/Santo matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 This is from Monterrey not WWA. WWA was Benjamin Mora's promotion based out of Tijuana. I also don't believe Black Shadow Jr intentionally fouled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 This was on a Best of WWA commercial release. Are you sure about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 This was on a Best of WWA commercial release. Are you sure about that?We definitely got this on a comp of stakes matches from Monterey. I'm pretty sure I didn't make up the intentional DQ but I can't remember who I first talked to about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 This was on a Best of WWA commercial release. Are you sure about that? Santo's website has the promoter listed for each of his apuesta matches and even some of the posters -- http://www.elhijodelsanto.com.mx/record/masvsmasc/masvsmasc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretta Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I liked what we saw of this one; the problem is, we didn't see enough of it. Not only was this heavily clipped, but the camera angles in what was left weren't any too swift, either. Fuerza and Shadow looked really good in the tag portion, and while I don't believe that Shadow intentionally got himself disqualified just so he could have a chance to unmask Santito, he certainly wasn't going to pass up the chance when it was dumped in his lap. He and Santito put on a really good second half, which was again marred by a combination of awful camera work and bad editing decisions. I agree with almost everyone else that the visual of Santito bleeding through his mask is always striking, and even though I couldn't hear it, I'm sure the arena exploded when he got the three count. Like Zenjo, I wish that the whole match was available; if what was shown was that good, I can only imagine how good the complete bout is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 #262 - placetobenation.com/countdown-top-500-matches-of-the-90s-300-251/2/ Man, I loved this. This was intense and the brawling on the outside was awesome. I share the same thoughts as Childs. I wasn't exactly sure on the rules, so glad that was all explained here. But, I just loved the performances. Santo was incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 I picked up on the whole setup once we got to the second fall. Made me wonder whether Shadow had fouled on purpose or not. In the end I think not knowing helps the match out. I liked Fuerza helping out Shadow during the second fall. Especially the part where he all but throws Shadow into he ring then yells at Octagon and Perro for daring to come near Santo. Santo's selling, bleeding and comeback are all spectacular. Shadow hanging with him here is really impressive. Great, great match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.