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Shinya Hashimoto


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Hashimoto, along with Jumbo, was really underrated... like a decade ago. Now the only people who rate him behind, say, Mutoh are people who haven't watched much puro. Talk about Hash not being appreciated is fighting an old fight that has already been settled. He's generally rated as a top 10/15 Japanese wrestler now. I'm very glad that many people took the effort to put Hash over and turn the tide. I for one started out not enjoying Hash and now I love him.

 

In terms of his peak versus Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, I still take the latter three without hesitation. Better highs and better lows. We can play "what if they switched companies" all day long but the bottom line is what actually happened. I think a good comp to Hashimoto is Tenryu: pudgy, stiff, wrestled a wide variety of opponents, and often dealing with inferior competition on the opposite side. Tenryu is solidly in front of Hash, and not just because of longevity. I can see where someone would prefer Tenryu to Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, and vice-versa. It's harder for Hashimoto, who has a much more limited moveset and a much smaller number of MOTYCs in his resume, to get that Top 10 worldwide/GOAT level of support. [edit: of course as I wrote the post someone says they like Hash over Tenryu...]

 

I'm not sure much of anyone from Japan is significantly underrated at this point. Over the past 5 years we've seen surges in support for Fujinami, Choshu, Dick Togo, Fujiwara, Yatsu, and additional top-tier support for Tenryu.

 

Maybe the problem is that a lot of this discussion and 'new consensus' is taking place on forums with the uber-hardcores, but isn't finding its way to places like the WON community with broader reach among what I'd dub 'mainstream' smarks. The kind of people who learned about puro from ROH and think Dragon Gate is mindblowing. But in that case we're dealing with straight-up ignorance, and the puro-watching community outside Japan has always been small so that's nothing new. Where this can become frustrating is that someone like Fujiwara can't get a fair shake in HOF discussion despite having major historical significance and being a great worker, because his matches don't appeal to casual puro fans and he apparently isn't seen as a big deal in Japan.

 

So anyway... Hashimoto is underrated by people who haven't seen any Hashimoto. But for people with a reasonably significant amount of puro viewing under their belt, he gets love.

 

Good post. Maybe I just don't pay attention to modern puro discussion enough to know where the consensus is on Hash. I don't remember him being talked up the last time I was paying attention and I don't think Jumbo was underrated ten years ago, but I get what you are saying otherwise.

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Since Hashimoto has never really been underrated, I'm going to take Dylan's argument to mean that he should be rated even higher than he is. I'm not so sure about that. I like Hashimoto a great deal, but it seems to me there were limitations to his style and the way he worked that prevented him from having as many great matches as he perhaps could have. Maybe I'm wrong, but because his matches didn't have the same kind of build as an All Japan heavyweight bout and relied more on atmosphere and energy, those latter two qualities had to be right for the match to be memorable and those things are difficult to produce.

 

I also have a tough time imaging how good Hashimoto vs. the All Japan workers would have been. Hashimoto vs. Kawada and Taue seems appealing, but Hashimoto vs. Misawa or Kobashi strikes me as a bit of a style clash. I suppose it could have worked since styles make fights, but I'm not sure it would have been an automatic slam dunk. Kind of like how Jumbo/Hansen or Misawa/Hansen weren't.

 

I thought Kawada v. Hash was really good when I watched it the other day. Much better than I expected/remembered. And that was in 2004.

 

Hash v. Misawa and Kobashi in all of there primes? Hard to say. I haven't watched a ton of either guy in years. I can't fully articulate why, but I always thought Misawa was a great wrestler but you were always going to work his type of match and he was not a guy who I thought worked radically different v. various opponents. Having said that these are old memories at this point and could very well be off base. Kobashi I could see hurting a Hash match by hamming it up too much.

 

On the flip side I can't imagine Misawa having an interesting match with Norton.

 

It's really guess work and I don't know what to do with it. All I know is that the older I get the more I admire guys who have the innate quality to make okay matches good and good matches great via little things, rather than with huge build and tons of near falls. It's not an indictment of either style per se, just a gradual change in how I view wrestling.

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I always thought it was fairly accepted that Hash was amongst the top of the NJ heavyweight workers. When discussing the top NJ heavyweight matches of the '90's his name comes up frequently, the two '95 Mutoh matches, the '94 Hase match, the '96 matches with Chosyu and Takada, the 6/96 IWGP Tag Titles classic.

 

It is. But NJ heavies aren't talked about all that much and I don't think being seen as better than Hase, Muto, Chono, Sasaki, et is really all that impressive.

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Good post. Maybe I just don't pay attention to modern puro discussion enough to know where the consensus is on Hash. I don't remember him being talked up the last time I was paying attention and I don't think Jumbo was underrated ten years ago, but I get what you are saying otherwise.

From 2011, asking where Hash ranks among Japanese wrestlers:

http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/topic/5...reciate-debate/

 

57 votes. 11 for top 5, and 25 for top 10. In the '07 Smarkschoice vote he was the #8 Japanese male. That's pretty good.

 

As for Jumbo, maybe it was further back than ten years, but I don't recall a ton of "Jumbo as GOAT" discussion until mid-decade. And now that pendulum is swinging the other way...

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Hash v. Misawa and Kobashi in all of there primes? Hard to say. I haven't watched a ton of either guy in years. I can't fully articulate why, but I always thought Misawa was a great wrestler but you were always going to work his type of match and he was not a guy who I thought worked radically different v. various opponents. Having said that these are old memories at this point and could very well be off base. Kobashi I could see hurting a Hash match by hamming it up too much.

 

On the flip side I can't imagine Misawa having an interesting match with Norton.

Misawa and Hashimoto did work against each other in a few tags in 2001 and I really enjoyed them when I watched them awhile back. I think a singles match could have worked.
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Since I was wondering about it and it's sort of relevant:

 

When and how did Zero-One turn from Hashimoto's Heisei Ishigun to a real promotion? I don't think I've ever seen this explained anywhere, either in the WON or online.

The general impression I got was that for storyline purposes it was established as a real company because that's how they roll over there but Inoki didn't want Zero-One stealing UFO's thunder and Hashimoto realized he could get better paydays doing interpromotional tags with Misawa so he got some real backers and just went with it. As big of an Ogawa fan as I am the real-world politics of that era are really fuzzy for me, though. (I have no idea what the Fujinami-Hashimoto mini-feud was about, for example, or to what degree their heat was even real.)
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I will re-watch at some point, but Hash/Takada didn't stand out to me at all when I watched it. I liked his matches against Choshu, Koshinaka and Kojima from the G-1 that year quite a bit. But it's been a couple of years now.

We all like what we like but I really think you need to rewatch it more than any other match, especially since you said it was awesome. I don't think I've ever seen anyone have a bad review of it and I've seen it been given 5 stars so many times. What didn't stand out about it? The selling was great, the heat was off the charts, the storyline was good, the stiffness was good and overall as a wrestling match, it had just about everything. I don't see any flaws in it. Alot of people including myself call it the best under 15 minute match ever and I've seen. It's definitely my MOTY for 1996 and one of my top 15 all-time best matches.
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I felt the same way about Choshu/Hash. It was my first yearbook to tackle, and I had no context for a lot of things, so chances are there are quite a few things I'll see differently the second time around. It shouldn't be taken as me dissing the match, as much as it should be that it didn't make a strong first impression for me.

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This is the first time I've ever seen someone call it a 5* match. I use to be on the high end of the scale of people liking the match, and never had it as a MOTYC. I don't get around much anymore, so perhaps opinion has changed over time... though given how much people currently love Takada, that surprises me.

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Since Hashimoto has never really been underrated, I'm going to take Dylan's argument to mean that he should be rated even higher than he is. I'm not so sure about that. I like Hashimoto a great deal, but it seems to me there were limitations to his style and the way he worked that prevented him from having as many great matches as he perhaps could have. Maybe I'm wrong, but because his matches didn't have the same kind of build as an All Japan heavyweight bout and relied more on atmosphere and energy, those latter two qualities had to be right for the match to be memorable and those things are difficult to produce.

 

I also have a tough time imaging how good Hashimoto vs. the All Japan workers would have been. Hashimoto vs. Kawada and Taue seems appealing, but Hashimoto vs. Misawa or Kobashi strikes me as a bit of a style clash. I suppose it could have worked since styles make fights, but I'm not sure it would have been an automatic slam dunk. Kind of like how Jumbo/Hansen or Misawa/Hansen weren't.

They did Hashimoto vs Kawada. It was good but it was in 2004 and nowhere near what it could have been.

 

Circa 1996/97, it would have been a heck of a match. The two would have figured out how to work with each other, and had a "war".

 

 

Hashimoto vs Misawa would have worked if Hashimoto played Kobashi only with kicks and took the underdog role. Misawa dominates, Hash sells then makes the big comeback.

Probably in the other direction. Misawa tended to let his opponent do whatever he wanted to do, then work comebacks off of it. Given they were the two Aces, they each would have been doing fiery comebacks. But it's more likely that Misawa would have let Hash "look stronger" by beating the living shit out of him more than he beat the hell out of Hash.

 

Hashimoto vs Kobashi would have been interesting. It would have been fiery and probably pretty good. Probably better if it was under 20 minutes though.

My general thought would be to look at the 8/95 Hash-Mutoh G1 Final, and then ponder what 1995 Kobashi *couldn't* have done in that match, and what more Kobashi could have brought to the table. Or Hash's better matches with Hase or Kosh... or pretty much anyone in New Japan. Kobashi would have been willing to take what ever ass kicking Hash wanted to dish out. Hash would have been willing to let Kobashi get in all his stuff. Hash would have kept Kobashi from wanting to go 40+. Kobashi would likely have pushed Hash to go past 20. Considering that Hash-Mutoh went 24+, I don't think these two would have had any issues going past 20... and probably comfortably past 20. This would have been the easiest opponent from All Japan for Hash to have a "very good" match with.

 

 

Hashimoto vs Hansen strikes me as possibly being alot of fun.

Circa 1993 it would have been pretty interesting. Hansen had a lot of respect for the All Japan guys because they'd grown up in the rings opposite him. Hash was a different promotion, and it would be an interesting dynamic if it were a one-off. You'd really rather see it if one of them had been in the promotion for a full series where they worked some tags and six-men earlier in the series to get not only some of their spots down, but also their mutual respect down. The positive would be this is probably the one match where they wouldn't try to work epic length and could get in-and-out in 15 or so minutes... one would hope.

 

Hashimoto vs Akiyama or Taue probably wouldn't have been that interesting. But I didn't like Akiyama until NOAH and I prefer Taue as a tag wrestler until he got into NOAH. I guess with Taue you would go with the storyline of "Can he hit the chokeslam?".

I suspect 1995-96 Taue would have been interesting, as long as they avoided going too long. Taue certainly would take a beating, and would be willing to take Hash's lead. By 1995-96 he also had some "dangerous" things like the more brutal high kicks that could match some stiffness with Hash, and turn the tide. Again, Hash likely would have figured something out here, and probably worked "storyish" with one of their arms getting fucked up.

 

1995-96 Hash vs Jun would have been as good as the other Hash vs Younger Guy matches of the era. Hash dominates, lets the kid make comebacks before cutting him back off, then lets him look good with a last stronger comeback before winning in the end. It's the type of match that Hash was *better* at working than most of the AJPW at that point because he did it all the time. Would have been good.

 

 

Hashimoto vs Jumbo would have been really good.

My guess is that Hash vs Jumbo in 10/91 would have been as good as Jumbo vs Kawada in 10/91. The difference being that since Hash had three singles wins over Choshu under his belt at that point, he would have had *more* credibility against Jumbo than Kawada did. The second difference is that Jumbo and Kawada had their spots together to a degree since they'd been working against each other for years. A "cold" Jumbo vs Hash would have been a bit choppy at times. That's not always a bad thing, i.e. Dream Rush. But it can be an issue in any number of other times.

 

 

Hashimoto vs Doc probably happened and would have been good.

It probably did happen... just don't recall having seen it. Both Doc and Hash got a lot better after Doc went to All Japan, so it's not a lock that a match of theirs in the 80s would have been killer. But a 1994 through 3/95 matches? My general thought is that if Hash could have a good match with Norton (and he had several watchable-to-good matches with Scott), it's pretty much a lock that he could have have a *very* good match with Doc... as long as Doc didn't fuck it up somehow.

 

Hash could have worked with all of these guys.

 

I think in turn, most of the AJPW guys could have worked with most of the NJPW regulars and churned out good matches, and some great matches.

 

John

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  • 2 years later...
  • 3 weeks later...

HASHIMOTO IN MEMPHIS




I stumbled upon a GIF of Hashimoto in Memphis on a certain site and creatively youtube'd "hashimoto memphis" only to find a bunch of videos of full memphis shows, many of which included, in my opinion, the greatest wrestler to ever walk this earth. It's not Christmas anymore over here but it might as well be. Let the binge watching begin!


PY Chu Hi, Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai (with Tojo Yamamoto) vs. David Johnson/Mike Masters/Scott Smith-CWA 14.1.1989.

PY Chu Hi, whoever the fuck that is, greets Lance Russel and introduces us to JAPAN'S GREATEST WARRIORS, Shinya Hashimoto and friend. It is as amusingly racist as you'd expect it to be-they are named Shogun and Samurai and have a manager who carries the imperial japanese flag. I have no idea any of their opponents are. The most intruiging thing here for me was how Hashimoto was going to work but before he even got into the ring I was impressed by PY Chu Hi. Here's a big, fat dude who knows how to throw a punch and will throw people around. Sounds like my kind of wrestling. Anyway Hashimoto tags in and he does not kick Memphis jobbers as hard as he does Riki Choshu and Hase but still kicks them a lot harder than the bullies who took their lunch money. A complete squash which is alright in my book. PY Chu Hi is Phil Hickerson apparently. I am now a fan of the Phil Hickerson.



PY Chu Hi/Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai vs. Tracy Smothers/Jeff Jarrett/Scott Steiner (aka Big Poppa Pump)-CWA 21.1.1989.

Whoa boy I sure am looking forward to Hashimoto being there just to make Jeff Jarrett look good. Ok match but it had more shtick than substance, interesting to see Hashimoto work basically a Kaientai in WWF match, lots of choking and stooging. We get a commercial break and they don't show the finish despite Lance Russel's promise they would. I'll live despite not seeing Jeff Jarrett get thrown over the top rope.


PY Chu Hi (aka Phil Hickerson)vs. Wild Eyed Southern Boy Tracy Smothers-CWA 28.1.1989.

It's a part of Hashimoto's storyline so I'm obligated to watch it. The Oriental Team is at ringside. Solid match, mostly Hickerson doing Throat Thrusts which I am more than fine with. Smothers threw good punches but his kicks were dogshit. Hashimoto's input was limited to Kesagiri Chopping Smothers' leg.


Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai vs. Chris Frazier/Rodney Napper-CWA 28.1.1989.

Top notch fanservice as Hashimoto beats the shit out of jobbers whle Phil Hickerson cuts a promo mid match and the Oriental's Team wacky manager occassionally interferes by smacking the shit out of jobbers with a kendo stick. "Samurai" is ok but I am happy whenever he tags out. Post-match the beatdown continues and all is right with the world. Hashimoto WORKS THE CAMERA while exiting. This ruled.


PY Chi Hi/Samurai/Shogun (with Tojo) vs. Rodney Napper/Mike Masters/Chris Frazier-CWA 4.2.1989.

Man this was fucking amazing, you had Hickerson viciously slapping a skinny kid, Hashimoto obliterating everyone with kicks and Samurai was cool too. I really love Hickerson's Belly To Belly Suplex, it looks like he's picking up a feather and not a grown man. Dutch Mandell was on commentary and very entertaining.


PY Chu Hi (aka Phil Hickerson) vs. Primetime Brian Lee-CWA 11.2.1989.

Brian Lee looks like Johnny Ace. Hickerson gives him some shine before they do the big transition which is Hickerson countering a headlock by pulling Lee's hair and then Toji Yamamoto (the manager) smacking him with a kendo stick of which I approve of. Wacky and entertaining bout.

Hashimoto was in a 18 Man Battle Royal on the same show and I do not feel like watching an 18 Man Battle Royal right now.


PY Chu Hi (aka Phil Hickerson) with Tojo vs. Dreamweaver aka Del Wilkes-CWA 18.2.1989.

Unintentionally hilarious as Hickerson does possibly the greatest referee distraction ever, another fat guy interferes and Dreamweaver ends up choking out the manager.

They show footage of the Battle Royal and it looks amazing so I'm gonna go back and watch it.


18 Man Battle Royal (Beauty, Beast, Bill Dundee, Keith Eric, Chris Frazier, Robert Fuller, Knighthawk, Frankie Lancaster, Brian Lee, Mike Masters, Jim McPherson, PY Chu Hi, Alan Reynolds, Tracy Smothers, Samurai, Scott Steiner, Shogun, Adrian Street)-CWA 11.2.1989.

Hashimoto has a hand fan so this is alrady at least four stars. I generally don't like battle royals as there's too much going on and none of it ends up being particularly good, at least until there's less people. Tojo Yamamoto hits someone with a kendo stick to set up an elimination which is great. He also hits Jeff Jarrett with one and Jarrett chases him. That means Jarrett isn't actually in the ring wrestling so that is also great. The Orinetal Taeam pin a random guy and jump on each other's back so he can't kick out and I think I'll be able to tolerate Memphis battle royals. Haha shit Yamamoto hit a guy that was already eliminated with a kendo stick for the hell of it. Some cool stuff happened inbetween but eventually it's down to a few men and Hashimoto and Samurai start rocking people with strikes and kicks, they pay off a spot they'd built up and have a clever and interesting finish. Tracy Smothers throws shitty kicks and has an outfit I do not condone so I am glad the post-match was a vicious beatdown on him. Hashimoto breaks a table with his head and all is right in the world.


Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai vs. Jungle Jim McPherson/Alan Reynolds-CWA 18.2.1989.

Jungle Jim is an athletic black guy, the ACH of 1989 CWA. He dominates the match early on with flippy stuff and then tags in the white guy whom Hashimoto and Samurai beat the shit out of. They even have a new tag team finisher after their previous one backfired last week! Really good stuff.


Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai vs. Jungle Jim McPherson/Chris Frazier-CWA 25.2.1989.

Watching Hashimoto beat on random white boys is my new favourite thing in life. Who is Chris Frazier? I don't know, I don't care but I'll watch Hash maul him any day of the week. Hashimoto playing to the crowd after the USA chants was incredible.


Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai (with Tojo) vs. David Johnson/Chris Frazier-CWA 4.3.1989.

Hashimoto smiles as the bell rings as if he knows he is going to smack on some american boys real good today. My favourite thing about these matches is how little the jobbers get in, I don't think they did a single move in this match and all their strikes were laughed off. Hashimoto was clearly great by this point.


Prime Time Brian Lee/Jungle Jim McPherson/Jed Grundy vs. PY Chu Hi (Phil Hickerson)/Shogun (Hashimoto)/Samurai (with Tojo Yamamoto)-CWA 11.3.1989.

Mediocre match, the japanese warriors have been killing everyone for weeks. Only a true fat american hero like Jed Grundy could stop them. That was the opening and it was amusing but then they moved over to the workovers which were pretty dull. Hashimoto's legwork looked way better than the american boys doing wristlocks and arm wingers as you'd expect. Hashimoto took a nice bump off a Dropkick. Good finish.


Oriental Team has a promo on the March 25th promo. Hashimoto's promo: "I jumped Tracy Smothers. Shogun and Samurai will be champions. Do you understand that? Idiots!" Then they do the banzai chant for no reason. Amazing.

Shogun & Samurai vs Mason Dixon Connection-CWA 1.4.1989.

Good match, very interesting to see Hashimoto work like a much more expressive character, particularly enjoyed his exchanges with Smothers. Nota fan of the faces doing the Andre double headbutt spot and the finish but eh, what can you do? This seems to have concluded Hashimoto's Memphis storyline.


PY Chu Hi/Shogun (Hashimoto) vs. Chris Frazier/Alan Reynolds-27.5.1989.

Inexplicable Hashimoto one-off. Fun squash, about what I'd learned to expect though Hash did surprisingly bust out a great snap belly to belly.
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Random Hash:


Shinya Hashimoto vs Masahiro Chono-NJPW 20.3.1987.

Perhaps the best young lion match I've ever seen, really fascinating to see how much more limited (or maybe just less skilled) today's youngsters are and even in the couple of instances where things could've been done better like the sleeper set up and the double underhook suplex counter you could see that the ideas behind them were very good and that it's something that would develop over time (I didn't think there was anything wrong with those spots, just that they could've gotten more out of them). The matwork as neat, only way you'd see something as sophisticated as this in today's New Japan is if it's a Sakuraba match. Hashimoto looked great and displayed a lot of great offense which even included a Bridging Fallaway Slam. It was cool to see them just start slapping the shit out of each other instead of engaging in endless battles of throwing weak forearms and Hashimoto's kicks already looked killer.



Shinya Hashimoto, Keiji Mutoh & Masahiro Chono vs Tatsumi Fujinami, Kengo Kimura & Shiro Koshinaka-NJPW 29.7.1988.

You would want a 6 man tag like this one to be a chaotic brawl and that's exactly what we get. One of the highlights of it was Hashimoto breaking up a pin, I've gotten used to the weak stomps that barely connect as a means of breaking up a pin but here Hashimoto doesn't just stomp Koshinaka he stomps THROUGH him. One of the best moments of the match was when Fujinami's teamw as beating on Hashimoto on the outside and he had this amazing facial expression whis was reminiscent of a villain on the verge of defeat who had not yet given up, as if he was saying they were gonna pay for it later. Throwing great punches isn't the first thing I think of when I think of Fujinami but damn he was rocking people left and right here, his exchanges with Hashimoto were out of this world great.

Shinya Hashimoto vs Tatsumi Fujinami-NJPW 4.4.1994.


Amazing match, I understand why some would be unimpressed with the opening stuff here but I always enjoy the battle over the lock ups and the simplest holds. Fujinami was probably too old for them to try something similar to the Hase matches at this point. Then the beatdown starts. Hashimoto's control segments are probably my favourite thing in wrestling, I laughed the first time he kicked Fujinami in the head but then just kind of became mesmerized by the level of violence displayed. It was kind of surreal how well done the finish was for what they were going to, it had me jump up and lose my shit and accomplishing that is a sign of great pro wrestling. Great post-match too with Fujinami selling the beatdown like he'd just come back from war.


Shinya Hashimoto vs Tatsumi Fujinami-NJPW 1.5.1994.


This one was worked more evenly but still came back to Hash brutalizing Fujinami which is what I'm all about. A lot of the time matches are drawn out for no reason, it was nice to see them follow an amazing control segment with a big move and just end it there, and with the shorter length and the manner in which their previous match was structured leave no room for a rematch.


Shinya Hashimoto vs Kensuke Sasaki-4.1.1995.

Very well structured and built heavyweight battle with plenty of struggle and smart teases of big moves. Hashimoto's transitions were really great, there was a sequence where Kensuke started chopping him and advancing forward and Hashimoto just cut him off with a Kesagiri and it looked like he'd beheaded him and another one where Kensuke went to Lariat him and he just punched him in the arm. The aforementioned punch started the armwork which didn't last long, there was not enough of it for it to make Kensuke's normal use of his strikes and throws intolerable but just enough of it so they could call back to it when he went for his wacky Strangle Holds. Could've done without the pop-up after the DDT but the context it was done in made it more bearable. Exciting finish with some swell nearfalls.

Shinya Hashimoto vs Hiromichi Fuyuki-NJPW 23.3.1993.

This is where Fuyuki shoot kicks Hashimoto and breaks his nose. Hashimoto would retaliate by going after his wife and also by hitting him really hard in this match. There's a certain charm to this match that modern japanese wrestling unfortunately doesn't really attempt to recreate. Everything feels so clean nowadays and the grittiness and lumpiness have been neglected. The feeling out process isn't just headlocks and shoulder blocks, the escalation doesn't come right after the first strike exchange, Fuyuki backs away from Hash and goes out of the ring to buy time...those things have value too, but alas replicating just the stiffness is much easier.

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