[1997-03-18-CMLL] El Hijo del Santo & Shocker & El Texano & Mr Niebla & La Fiera & Dr Wagner Jr & Mascara Magica vs Negro Casas & Black Warrior & Felino & Mano Negra & El Dandy & Scorpio Jr & Silver King (Torneo Cibernetico)

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[Loss]

I realized I should stop this until I understand the rules. Can someone explain? Wikipedia seems to just say elimination rules, but this started off like a Royal Rumble with top rope eliminations then ended up with less guys.

[Loss]

I think I figured it out. Is it that they started with a battle royal to determine order of entry, then the match switched to a tag match where when one guy goes out, he is replaced, with the match ending when all members of one team are eliminated?

[FLIK]

Yeah, majority of Cibernetico's have set teams but the one's that don't use battle royals to determine sides.

[Childs]

I equate ciberneticos with playground basketball. They're all about pace and guys running in to show off their coolest shit. So you're not going to end up with the equivalent of a playoff classic, but it's likely to be good fun. That was the case here. Standouts included Niebla, Dandy and Silver King. But Santo was probably the star of the match, looking fantastic against both Felino and Casas. The heat between Casas and Santo really added something to the finishing stretch. I also enjoyed Fiera, an old favorite from the '80s sets, getting the win. As usual, he took a sick bump.

[Loss]

I equate ciberneticos with playground basketball. They're all about pace and guys running in to show off their coolest shit. So you're not going to end up with the equivalent of a playoff classic, but it's likely to be good fun. That was the case here. Standouts included Niebla, Dandy and Silver King. But Santo was probably the star of the match, looking fantastic against both Felino and Casas. The heat between Casas and Santo really added something to the finishing stretch. I also enjoyed Fiera, an old favorite from the '80s sets, getting the win. As usual, he took a sick bump.

Question for you, without having watched this yet: Do you think the New Japan 5 x 5 matches from the 80s are a good comparison here?

[Childs]

Not in general, because New Japan really used those matches to push and develop factional feuds. But there were a few that were more like this; I'm thinking of the 1988 juniors 10-man that made the DVDVR set. This match did touch on some of the lucha issues of the moment. But in general, it felt like more of a fun showcase (I say that with the caveat that I don't have deep knowledge of CMLL booking).

[ohtani's jacket]

Silver King and Fiera were feuding at the time and had a hair match a few days later.

[Loss]

I thought this was terrific from an action perspective, but I'm guessing I'll look back on it as a teaser for the April 18 match. These guys worked at a breakneck pace for a half hour and this was a blast to watch. I don't really have much more to say about it than that. The excited commentary in this is amazing! I also think this may have had a little more substance than Childs did, although I admit that the pacing and highspots is the calling card.

 

From a storyline perspective, I thought they did a really good job continuing the Santo/Casas feud, continuing the portrayal from the 1996 Yearbook of Casas as a guy who is sort of a hero after Santo turned, but is still kind of a self-serving jerk by nature, so he doesn't know what to make of his newfound popularity. El Dandy and Silver King were standouts too, but duh.

[soup23]

I really like Childs analogy of playground basketball. This match was a blast that featured too many highspots to name. My favorite was the Santo dive with Silver King just missing getting to him before he dove. I also did think this continued the story of Casas vs. Santo in a fine fashion and more individuals were fleshed out. Silver King, Felino, and Dandy were all terrific.

[Kevin Ridge]

There is a lot of guys involved here so I’m destined to get lost. They are working it like a battle royal with trying to eliminate guys over the top rope. I feel like Monsoon in not knowing what is going on and missing stuff. I barely noticed Dandy with the hair cut and facial hair. Check out that mangled forehead on that guy who I don’t know name.

 

The match stops and now we have some type of tag match. I have no chance here. Not everyone is up on apron though to “make tag in”. Like the AJPW super long tag team elimination match where only two guys involved from each team at a time. Also feels like hockey with line changes as guys move in and out and don’t have to be eliminated to change up who the two involved are. Had some good stuff but just way too much going on and impossible to keep track of rules/eliminations.

[Robert S]

I've never noticed how often Lucha announcers say the names of the other announcers (every other sentence seemed to end with "Dr.", "Dr. Alfonso Morales", "Leo" or "Leo Magadan"; I didn't get the name of the third guy). Of course I might just imagining that as I don't understand much Spanish.

[PeteF3]

Okay, so we start with a battle royal. Once half the guys are eliminated, a team match is formed pitting the guys in the ring against the guys thrown out. The announcers play this up like they did the Royal Rumble, hyping that rudos and tecnicos would be both teaming up and facing each other. So begins the first Cibernetico on a Yearbook--and here I thought they were a 2000s thing. Casas and Santo open against each other, which is a pretty good way to ensure a hot start. And then both men tag out--leading to Silver King vs. Texano! I don't know if this was the first Cibernetico ever but this is a great way to get the stips over. We get a bewildering array of dives, bumps, and some fantastic counter-wrestling and even some sick suplexes along the way, with too many great moments to count and basically everything hitting. Everyone besides Scorpio Jr. (who isn't bad, but doesn't do anything particularly outstanding) looks good, but Casas and Niebla in particular look great, with Niebla being a new revelation for this project. Fiera, seemingly working as a babyface, has a fun closing stretch where he continues to take big bumps and stiff the fuck out of people. I could see this finishing in the MOTYC top 20, very easily. There was a bit of just about every style here.

[Zenjo]

I've never noticed how often Lucha announcers say the names of the other announcers (every other sentence seemed to end with "Dr.", "Dr. Alfonso Morales", "Leo" or "Leo Magadan"; I didn't get the name of the third guy). Of course I might just imagining that as I don't understand much Spanish.

CMLL announcing seems to follow a similar structural pattern to Horse Racing commentary here in the UK. One commentator will describe the action for a while, and then say the name of the next commentator, who they will hand over to.

 

Back when I first watched a Cibernetico my thoughts were mainly along the lines of 'What's goin' on 'ere den?' To put it concisely: Begin with half a Battle Royal, then have Team Floor facing off against Team Ring in an Elimination Match. Or just watch it twice.

 

The mixed tecnico/rudo teams didn't have that much of an impact. This wasn't about beatdowns. Nor indeed matwork. For any fan of fast paced, spectacular Lucha this was a treat. And I'm definitely one of those fans. Whenever a new pair entered the ring it was like a showcase to see what they could do. There was a hell of a lot of talent among the 14 competitors. CMLL had an awesome roster. Superb quality wrestling. I liked how the pace slowed over time as damage set in. Duration was just right. I liked the pacing of eliminations over time. It wasn't all in a heap near the end. With a bit longer duration they could've fleshed out the closing stages a bit more. Maybe next time. They also continued the Santo vs Casas feud. Excellent.