Undertaker > Hogan

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Kramer brings up a good point about Jake Roberts. He is a well known name.

 

This thread reminded me of that best WWF/WWE champion poll that the WWE had on their app recently. That was all telling and if that poll was indeed legit than that was jaw dropping. And that was from this day and age.

 

Hogan is to wrestling as Gretzky is to hockey as Jordan is to basketball as Mario is to video games as Bruce Lee is to martial arts.

[Dylan Waco]

I think Andre has to be #2. Rock should be above Austin. I don't think Bruno is really that famous outside the NE. Savage is there somewhere alongside Austin too.

To me the list isn't just about fame. It's about value to the promotion.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yeah, I was going with the op's thing about fame in general when I say Savage is one of the most well known. The Rock is a definite number two though, he completely slipped my mind.

I'm wondering how much of Andre's fame currently is more a result of The Princess Bride continuing to grow from generation to generation as a beloved movie? Which reminds me of this bit of awesomeness.

 

 

I need this framed and on my wall, post haste.

[tim]

Might it be argued that Austin was more relatively important than Hogan? Hogan was the head of the 80s boom but I feel like that was thanks to cable, national expansion, Vince's vision etc and could've happened with a number of big, charismatic Champions on top (not that there are a whole lot of guys who fit that bill as well as Hogan). The Attitude Era boom though feels like a real outgrowth of Austin himself.

[Slasher]

Might it be argued that Austin was more relatively important than Hogan? Hogan was the head of the 80s boom but I feel like that was thanks to cable, national expansion, Vince's vision etc and could've happened with a number of big, charismatic Champions on top (not that there are a whole lot of guys who fit that bill as well as Hogan). The Attitude Era boom though feels like a real outgrowth of Austin himself.

Meltzer made a point that when Austin got in trouble for the Debra stuff, it barely made a blip in news media, but when it was Hogan-all over the place. I do have to think fame and importance has to go hand in hand, unless you were a journeyman that left promotions after six months or something. Being famous means people know who you work for means people are watching for you.

[gingears]

Might it be argued that Austin was more relatively important than Hogan? Hogan was the head of the 80s boom but I feel like that was thanks to cable, national expansion, Vince's vision etc and could've happened with a number of big, charismatic Champions on top (not that there are a whole lot of guys who fit that bill as well as Hogan). The Attitude Era boom though feels like a real outgrowth of Austin himself.

I think the boom was also an outgrowth of the grand anti-hero movement and Hogan, via the NWO, was also a big part of that.

 

When comparing Hogan and Austin career-versus-career, I can never shake the fact that, even though Austin absolutely eclipsed Hulk at one point, Hogan was still an important and prominent figure during that time.

[SteveJRogers]

I like the Andre-Taker comparasion. I could see Callaway being farmed out to promotions during the height of the territory days the way Andre was.

 

Thing is though, I'd bet when the non-fans ask about "Undertaker" its probably the 1991-1994 version of the character more so than any other version of the gimmick.

 

And while that is true of the "yellow and red" Human Hot Dog Hogan, I think its more accepted that Hogan's gimmicks are more than the color of his garb. The non-fan isn't going to question why Hogan is wearing a black doo rag, blue Ed Hardy shirt and jeans.

[Dylan Waco]

Actually Taker WAS farmed out to the territories, or at least SMW

[Bix]

Actually Taker WAS farmed out to the territories, or at least SMW

And the USWA and Michinoku Pro.

[cm funk]

Taker is no doubt one of the most recognizable names to non-fans/casual fans. If you were even tangently interested in wrestling in the 90's Taker was one of the most recognizable characters. I think if you polled random people on the street the majority of them would know "The Undertaker"

 

Also, when WWE was at it's peak of popularity, the biggest show they did was Austin vs. Undertaker. Anyone with a pulse in 98 knew about that show.

 

Taker isn't close to Hogan though. Everyone knows Hulk Hogan. He's the biggest wrestling star of the last 30 years, and it's not really close. I love Austin, but Hogan was a bigger star.

[RWOOD]

From google.

 

Hulk hogan is the third thing listed after typing "hul".

 

You have to type "stone c" to get Austin to come up but he is the only thing.

 

When you type in "undert" undertaker comes up but that is also a thing.

 

I don't know what that means. It is probably influenced by my regular googling anyway.

 

Hulk hogan is the biggest wrestling star ever.

 

The Rock is number two without a doubt?

[Guest Nell Santucci]

I don't see how anyone could argue Hogan is a bigger star than the Rock. Hogan couldn't even make it in Hollywood and without his reality show, and all its drama, his name recognition wouldn't even be half what it is today. Further, Hogan is also seen as a clown by the public and has been since the 1991 Arsenio fallout.

 

Austin was too short lived with not enough mainstream roles. I'd say Undertaker has far more name recognition than him, which is counterintuitive. Vince McMahon has as much name recognition as Austin, and shockingly few people seem to know who Vince is.

 

Mainstream recognition is weird that way.

[Strummer]

just an anecdotal note. I went to the WWE House Show on the 5th of this month in Albany and a woman was passing out flyers for an upcoming Bret Hart appearance in the area. I stood around for awhile and I'd have to say that at least half (and that's generous) of the fans that she approached had no idea who Bret was. But the last few times I've attended WWE Shows it still amazes me that the crowd is mostly filled with 10-12 year olds and their begrudging parents (in fact I sat next to a father/son tandem at the show who made me laugh quite often with their interactions)

[Guest Nell Santucci]

just an anecdotal note. I went to the WWE House Show on the 5th of this month in Albany and a woman was passing out flyers for an upcoming Bret Hart appearance in the area. I stood around for awhile and I'd have to say that at least half (and that's generous) of the fans that she approached had no idea who Bret was. But the last few times I've attended WWE Shows it still amazes me that the crowd is mostly filled with 10-12 year olds and their begrudging parents (in fact I sat next to a father/son tandem at the show who made me laugh quite often with their interactions)

Yes. That's why I'm not sure if Austin has significantly more name recognition than even McMahon, partly because his run on top was so brief and people forget names over time. Many will remember him as the guy who chugged beers on wrestling but not as Stone Cold. For that reason alone, I think Undertaker has more recognition than Austin because his character name is more easily remembered and he has been around forever.

 

Hogan is weird in that, though known by an awful lot of the public, he's sort of the caricature for why pro-wrestling is seen as a trashy, dysfunctional subculture that deserves no respect, in contrast to the Rock or Jesse Ventura.

 

The board really should evaluate what pro-wrestling's image would be today had Hogan never outted himself that way on Arsenio. Imo, it's a scandal that harmed wrestling even more than Benoit since head trauma is sort of a given in any contact sport whereas the American hero who preached God and vitamins whilst obviously lying about his steroid use, exposing the promotion as little better than sleazy glorified drug pushers, really made the promotion that market itself as family entertainment seem like the most rotten hypocrites in America. It's a miracle that WWE survived that scandal, much less strived later on.

[pantherwagner]

Actually Taker WAS farmed out to the territories, or at least SMW

And the USWA and Michinoku Pro.

 

And WAR (vs King Haku)

[Guest Nell Santucci]

This clip is amazing as Hogan's act unraveled almost overnight.

 

[El-P]

I don't see how anyone could argue Hogan is a bigger star than the Rock.

Agreed. But Hogan is probably the bigger "wrestling" star, while The Rock is "only" the bigger star, as odd as it may sound.

[JerryvonKramer]

I don't know how much you can judge from this but this is a little search thing that can give you stats on "mentions in rap songs".

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/i...rs-lyrics-songs

 

You can see who has been mentioned most in rap songs in the past 30 years. Obviously there is a little bit of a problem with The Rock because actual rocks will be mentioned quite a lot. Ditto "Savage". Ditto Austin ("Stone Cold" is a common phrase, "Austin" has a lot of mentions pre-1990 because it's a common name, etc.) But you can do Hulk Hogan vs. John Cena for example.

 

 

Interesting to see that apart from a blip in the mid-00s, for the most part Hogan destroys Cena even in 2013.

 

Obviously you can play with this a bit by adjusting search terms. Straight up "Hogan" vs. "Cena" yields this:

 

[El-P]

That shit is hilarious.

[pantherwagner]

I don't see how anyone could argue Hogan is a bigger star than the Rock.

Agreed. But Hogan is probably the bigger "wrestling" star, while The Rock is "only" the bigger star, as odd as it may sound.

 

This is not odd at all. The Rock is pretty well known in places like Hong Kong or Malaysia or Taiwan where they have no clue that he is/was a pro wrestler. He's just a big actor dude, like Vin Diesel.

[Childs]

Yeah, people are conflating the question of biggest mainstream star with the question of biggest wrestling star. Rock is certainly a bigger star to the average person than Bruno Sammartino or Steve Austin. But I don't think he's been as important to the WWE/WWF's business as those guys were. To be fair, his role in the last three Wrestlemanias gives him a better argument.

 

Hogan still resides on another planet from all those guys.

[jdw]

Might it be argued that Austin was more relatively important than Hogan? Hogan was the head of the 80s boom but I feel like that was thanks to cable, national expansion, Vince's vision etc and could've happened with a number of big, charismatic Champions on top (not that there are a whole lot of guys who fit that bill as well as Hogan). The Attitude Era boom though feels like a real outgrowth of Austin himself.

I think we've gone around this block before. There isn't anyone who Vince could have expanded like he did with Hogan. Vince was the right promoter to do it. The WWF was the right regional promotion to launch it from. Hogan was the right wrestler to anchor it with. 1983/84/85 was the right time frame to do it. Stars aligned. But Hogan was as essential as the rest of the things.

 

John

[cm funk]

I don't see how anyone could argue Hogan is a bigger star than the Rock. Hogan couldn't even make it in Hollywood and without his reality show, and all its drama, his name recognition wouldn't even be half what it is today. Further, Hogan is also seen as a clown by the public and has been since the 1991 Arsenio fallout.

 

Austin was too short lived with not enough mainstream roles. I'd say Undertaker has far more name recognition than him, which is counterintuitive. Vince McMahon has as much name recognition as Austin, and shockingly few people seem to know who Vince is.

 

Mainstream recognition is weird that way.

I honestly think more people know who Hulk Hogan is than Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

 

Yeah, Rock is a big movie star now, but Hogan was a pop culture icon

 

This will change eventually, but if you ask people right now, more of them know Hogan than they know Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

[Karl]

Hogan at his peak was ingrained into popular culture. Rock is just a fairly famous person. The passage of time has perhaps lessened the appreciation as to how big a star Hogan was and during a time when there were far fewer things demanding our attention.

[SteveJRogers]

I will always use this story as the perfect example to illustrate how much Hulk Hogan = Pro Wrestling to the mass audience.

 

I'm watching ESPN doing an NBA season opener report on the Bulls as they headed into the 1994 season, the first in the United Center. Now I've dropped off of following day-to-day wrestling at that point, but when the announcer stated that the stadium had opened in August with "a Hulk Hogan wrestling event" I did know enough that Hogan had parted ways with the WWF at this point, and assumed that the card was something he had promoted with others.

 

It wasn't until I went to college a year later (September of 1995) that I realized WCW did not run shows through there in the summer of 1994, and the show the announcer was referring to was of course WWF's SummerSlam. A show that Hogan had not one bloody thing to do with!

 

So there ya go, Hogan so transcends the sport, or at least transcended it at the time, that his name was affixed to it, even though simple research on the event would have revealed that he wasn't involved on that particular event. I'm sure one could be hard pressed to come up with another one like it, in terms of pro wrestling.