WWE Network... It's Here

[flyonthewall2983]

The AWA doc that is on the Network from 2006-7 shows Hogan's rise as a babyface and shows that Hulkamania pretty much started in the Midwest. The thing Vince can claim is that his father came up with the name. 

The ESPN Flair film is mostly about his personal life with the Reader's Digest version of his career to pad it out. They wouldn't need to get Arn for such a thing since they surely have tons of interviews with him for past programs anyway. 

[Alucard]

On 5/28/2020 at 3:29 PM, DMJ said:

I had not seen the three hour documentary about the Lex Express and all I can say is...Holy shit.

This is less of a "doc" than just a bunch of mostly raw, unedited footage. I'm only 30 minutes in and I can't imagine what the rest of this is going to be like. It starts with a lengthy, lengthy music video that was definitely made back in 93' and I'm guessing played on Superstars and stuff? Think "Tell Me A Lie" but more patriotic. We then cut (kinda) to the USS Intrepid, but its being captured by a single camera so it is dizzying, sea-sickness-inducing "fan cam" style. At points, the cameraman zooms in on random fans and it just crazy raw, uncut. I'm guessing they were going to edit this all down.

So far, no "talking heads," no post-production at all, just random and rather minor (to my knowledge) sports celebrities* attempting to slam Yoko mixed with some random WWE stars like Bob Backlund (still sporting long hair) and Scott Steiner. 

Also, for those that still have The Last Dance on my mind, at one point Scotty fucking Burrell shows up to try to slam Yoko! 

 

 

One of my absolute favorite things on the Network. Lex comes off the coolest in the bus clips, the Slam Jam album release party, etc. It's got the original "I'll Be Your Hero" track on the opening music video which is replaced by another song when it airs on SummerSlam 93 on the Network. 

[flyonthewall2983]

They just put up a video on Sting, taken from backstage footage of him at Slamboree 95. Just about to watch it, but this is going deep into WCW archives which is interesting for them to do at this point. 

[C.S.]

On 5/31/2020 at 11:37 AM, flyonthewall2983 said:

They just put up a video on Sting, taken from backstage footage of him at Slamboree 95. Just about to watch it, but this is going deep into WCW archives which is interesting for them to do at this point. 

I watched it last night. It's basically ten minutes of weird kayfabe footage, followed by the Sting-Big Bubba match from Slamboree.

Still cool though. I definitely hope we get more of these.

I skipped the match itself because highlights of it were shown beforehand. From the highlights, I was surprised to see tables in WCW in 1995.

The Sting-Big Bubba feud was underrated. 

[flyonthewall2983]

The 24/7 on Flair's WM 24 weekend was good. But I imagine it could have been a hell of a lot longer, or perhaps even being the basis of the career-long retrospective I fantasized about on the last page. Tough seeing the footage of all of his kids together in the front row watching him. 

[sek69]

Watching part 4 of the Taker doc, and it's practically endearing how he and Vince interact. Vince pretending his idea for Taker on the RAW after Mania was a feud with Giant Gonzalez's son was an unexpected LOL moment. 

Also it's pretty astounding how snakebit how many of his recent matches have been seeing it back to back like this.  First he got concussed, then Hunter got hurt at the first Saudi show, then Goldberg got concussed in the next. Not that any of those matches would have been five star classics, but for a guy knowing his in ring days were running out it must have been beyond frustrating to deal with.

[flyonthewall2983]

It's interesting that the whole Starrcast drama was brought up. His body language regarding the fallout makes me think that (at least at the time he was being interviewed) the whole thing had not settled in his mind.

Reddit is picking apart the moment after the Extreme Rules tag match where he goes up to Vince after and says basically that's it and Vince appears to subtly beg him to reconsider that position. 

Towards the end Triple H talks about the buzz of performing being an addiction, with clips of Ric and Shawn talking about how difficult retirement was. This kind of thing is usually portrayed a bit more heroically but it felt particularly sad considering that moment he is chasing through this whole series. 

[sek69]

6 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

It's interesting that the whole Starrcast drama was brought up. His body language regarding the fallout makes me think that (at least at the time he was being interviewed) the whole thing had not settled in his mind.

 

The idea that he didn't realize AEW had a PPV the same weekend as Starrcast is preposterous, but they also conveniently left out that WWE let his deal run out so Vince expecting him to not look for a payday is also ridiculous. It's such a perfectly Vince thing to expect a guy to sit home and not make money when he didn't feel he was worth keeping under contract. 

Also, while clearly he's got the typical "one more, one more" wrestler disease it's been more a little disingenuous for them to leave out money being such a big factor.  Dave mentioned he's had some real estate deals and other investments that didn't pan out,  plus factoring in two divorces, he wasn't nearly in as good financial shape you'd expect someone at his level to be. It's why he started using social media and initially did the Starrcast deal, and why he kept coming back for the Saudi shows. It's why there was hard feelings with Vince over having his Starrcast gig cancelled, and it's probably the reason Vince ended up offering the lifetime deal (Taker seems to be one of the few people Vince feels bad about pissing off).  

It its funny how often WWE does the "wrestler would be broke without us offering them the honor of working for us" angles, they dance around it when it actually happens IRL. 

[C.S.]

All of this talk of Taker taking on side hustles to make extra money leads me to believe that the Blue Line clothing he wears throughout this doc is simply an endorsement deal - because he's sporting that line 99% of the time, which isn't natural unless it's a paid promotion. 

If WWE let Taker's contract run out after he told Vince he was done at Extreme Rules, that is sort of semi-understandable. I can only assume Vince was really confident Taker would never join AEW. I guess the Starrcast deal jolted Vince out of that way of thinking, even if Taker had no intentions of ever working outside WWE.

I'll even buy that Taker is in the bubble to such an extent that he didn't know what AEW was. Plus, Conrad had recently been on the WWE Network, so there was still somewhat of a relationship there at the time. I assume that's over and done with now, even with Uncle Brucie being #2 and Conrad being a Flair. This Starrcast stuff must be a big moneymaker for Conrad to burn his bridge with WWE, or maybe he was naive enough to think everyone could be friends?

Taker forgetting his gear for Mania makes me wonder if the Elias spot was originally going to happen there. 

With the finale being next week, I wonder if we're going to get a surprise retirement announcement at the end of the documentary, either with the AJ match being his swan song or next year's Mania match and a HOF induction being announced as the Undertaker's last ride.

 

[DMJ]

12 minutes ago, C.S. said:

All of this talk of Taker taking on side hustles to make extra money leads me to believe that the Blue Line clothing he wears throughout this doc is simply an endorsement deal - because he's sporting that line 99% of the time, which isn't natural unless it's a paid promotion. 

- So I actually Google'd this and it's Nine Line Apparel (not technically Blue Line) that he seems to be sporting and has been involved in/supporting for at least 2 years (there's a Facebook post featuring Taker from 2018). Its a veteran-owned company, pro-gun, etc. etc. I agree that it seems odd that not only does he seem to have their apparel on for all the interviews and backstage at various events, but its usually the same tee-shirt/sweatshirt. Like, I own at least a half dozen Guided By Voices tee shirts and, chances are, because I only own maybe 12 tee-shirts total, if you see me around town, I'll be rocking one...but the same one? Every time you see me for like the past 24 months?

- I totally buy that the Undertaker didn't know or pay too much mind to the AEW Double or Nothing/Starrcast link. AEW wasn't yet on TV. Jon Moxley hadn't shown up yet. Aside from Jericho and the Rhodes, this was a bunch of "indie guys" and there's no reason to believe the Undertaker has kept any tabs on non-WWE pro-wrestling since, well, before he joined the company 30 years ago. To him, it was probably an offer from Ric Flair's son-in-law to come do an autograph signing and, I'm guessing, it was a very pleasant surprise for him to learn that he could make a ton of cash - probably more than he thought possible for a non-WWE event - in the process. 

Imagine, you've been in the WWE Bubble for 30 years where your value and income is based on being a cornerstone of the most successful promotion in the world. Sure, you might hear rumblings that "You can make good money in Japan" or "The indies are actually thriving" or whatever, but if your the Undertaker, you've got to have your doubts about just how green the grass is outside of Vince's yard, even if its coming from credible sources like Jericho or The Hardys. Then, your contract expires and you get a big offer for a signing and its gotta be somewhat mind-blowing. And then you get a call from Vince and he says you can't do it and maybe part of you wonders if you've actually been undervalued and there is a marketplace out there. 

Taker strikes me as a guy that follows college and NFL football, UFC, and maybe even college basketball more closely than he follows pro-wrestling, even the WWE itself. In terms of spare time, he seems to also spend a ton of it either recovering from surgery or having surgery. Plus, he's got young kids and Michelle McCool probably drags him to Bible study all the time too based on her own devotion. I just don't see him spending his free time keeping tabs on "the business."

 

- Anyone else think its kinda cool that multiple times in the doc we've seen Taker chumming it up with The Miz? It kinda warms my heart that The Miz sorta became a lockerroom leader (maybe not a "leader," but at least a veteran) after being treated like shit for so long and, based on most stories, hasn't made "paying your dues" a thing and is friendly and well-liked by just about everyone (save for the most recent issue with Covid-19, which, to be fair, it was always reported he was showing symptoms - which are very general -  not that he ever tested positive). 

[sek69]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

With the finale being next week, I wonder if we're going to get a surprise retirement announcement at the end of the documentary, either with the AJ match being his swan song or next year's Mania match and a HOF induction being announced as the Undertaker's last ride.

I really hope the end of the doc has Taker happy with the Boneyard match and finally at peace to call it a career.  Ending it with him wanting to do another match despite *finally* getting the "Mainia Moment" he's been desperately seeking for would be real-life-imitating-The Wrestler moment.

[NintendoLogic]

Undertaker said in the final episode of The Last Ride that he has no desire to return to the ring, which is probably for the best since the boneyard match is the highest note he can realistically go out on. I know he's sort of retired and then come back before, but he apparently had a moment of clarity after nearly breaking his neck in the Goldberg match. Still, it'd be cool if they did something at Survivor Series this year since it'll be 30 years to the day of his WWF debut.

[Ricky Jackson]

I looked this up earlier - Taker's only had 25 matches since 2010, so he's basically been coming out of retirement for a decade already. Crazy how time flies 

[flyonthewall2983]

Between the Goldberg incident and his brother dying*, I think he's done. And with how they built the match up, breaking kayfabe, is probably as good an indicator that he's done with the character and found some finality in being closer to himself than he even was in the Attitude Era. 

*such an eerily fitting coincidence, considering the circumstances around his first match, with Bret Hart's brother dying just the day before. Can't speak to his state of mind, but it wouldn't surprise me if that isn't lost on him 30 years later. 

[C.S.]

I really hope Undertaker is done, for his own sake and peace of mind - the documentary certainly tried to paint that picture through editing - but Taker never at any point confirmed it. At best, he said "I think I'm done" or words to that effect. But he also said "never say never" and admitted he would consider it if Vince ever needed him again (likely for a Saudi show IMO, although that part was left unsaid). 

With that said, these shirts wouldn't have ever been a possibility even a year ago:

 

[SteveJRogers]

Oddly enough I Mandela-ed a “Mean Mark” trading card based off of there being a set of WCW trading cards with cards of The Skyscrapers, and wondered if they’d be considered “Undertaker’s rookie cards”.

But the sets (Impel WCW and Championship Marketing WCW) I thought I saw cards in came out in 1991, so not only was Mark long gone, so was the team itself by that point!

I’d wager Mean Mark would show up in a trading card set featuring WCW photos now.

[SteveJRogers]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:27 AM, Ricky Jackson said:

I looked this up earlier - Taker's only had 25 matches since 2010, so he's basically been coming out of retirement for a decade already. Crazy how time flies 

Even more crazier is that from what, 1995-2009, he was a fixture in the Main Event/Heavyweight titles scene.  And his final match for any sort of title, period, was losing the Elimination Chamber Match for his World Title in 2010 to help set up Shawn Michaels’ retirement match.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

I'm three episodes in to The Last Ride and am enjoying it, but I'm taken aback every time Michael Hayes appears in the background. He looks like a literal clown.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

Biggest takeaway from The Last Ride - McCool is a family name??

[SteveJRogers]

21 hours ago, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

Biggest takeaway from The Last Ride - McCool is a family name??

Irish/Scottish

 

Scottish and northern Irish : Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Gille Chomhghaill (Scottish), Mac Giolla Comhghaill 'son of the servant of (Saint) Comhghall', a personal name, possibly an intensive of gall 'stranger', borne by an early Irish saint.

 

https://www.familyeducation.com/baby-names/name-meaning/mccool

You will see plenty of Irish establishments, mostly bars named either McCool’s or Finn McCool after the mythical warrior hunter.

Fionn mac Cumhaill was an Irish mythical hunter-warrior in Irish mythology, occurring also in the mythologies of Scotland and the Isle of Man. The stories of Fionn and his followers, the Fianna, form the Fenian Cycle, much of it narrated in the voice of Fionn's son, the poet Oisín.

[SteveJRogers]

My takeaway, which hasn’t been asked anywhere, or even when AJ did the wrap show, is if the match was done in the ring, would AJ have gone over?

The big pre-“announced” ones like Flair, HBK and Foley, as well as the “after the fact ones” like Austin, Batista, and even the Reigns match all ended with the retiree looking at the lights.  

Now, once the venue and the complexion of the match changed, the finish, theatrics and the ride off makes sense for a “finality” for the in-ring career, but if it was a normal match?  

I mean it would make sense either way, but I wonder if the winner changed because of the changes.

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, SteveJRogers said:

I wonder if the winner changed because of the changes.

I doubt it, because AJ specifically said on the documentary that the match was built around fans wanting to see Taker kick AJ's ass.

Nothing in the build, with AJ making it so personal, suggested that he would be the one going over.

Now, if the feud didn't get personal until after the shutdown (I'm not sure), then maybe AJ was originally scheduled to win. I still don't think so though.

[C.S.]

I watched The Broken Skull Sessions with Mark Henry last night. Possibly the best episode of the show yet.

Some "SPOILERS" below:

- Not that I'm defending Mark Henry's stance about Lio Rush carrying bags, etc. for veteran wrestlers, but watching this will help you understand why Henry feels the way he does. He talks about coming into the company and being assigned as Yokozuna's driver "because the way this company works, the young take care of the old" - or words to that effect - according to Vince. Henry called it the best time of his life in wrestling, even more than winning the World Title. There are funny stories about Henry driving 100 miles an hour with Yoko and later The Rock and Mae Young.

- This relationship with Yoko gets Henry in good with The Undertaker and the BSK, even if Henry is so green and unfamiliar with the business and associated terminology that he takes offense to Taker saying "here's our new babyface." I'm not sure Taker wasn't being sarcastic though.

- Henry is definitely entrenched in the WWE way of thinking, even quoting the popular Vince refrain, "you've got to learn to eat shit and like it" if you're going to make it in WWE.

- The story from the WWE Mark Henry documentary is repeated, about Henry wanting to return to strongman competitions, with Vince allowing it but saying "there's no place here for the second World's Strongest Man," so Henry had no choice but to win. I'm not sure if Vince was serious or if this was just a weird motivating tactic.

- Henry talks about the rib of being announced for a dark match and being left out there for 20 minutes for an opponent that was never going to come out. When he figured out it was a rib, he ripped out lights and destroyed property backstage (which, of course, is the normal way everyone handles workplace disputes). Then he called up Vince, yelled at him, and asked why he should stay in WWE when "you obviously don't respect me and you damn sure don't fear me" (paraphrasing). Vince showed Henry footage of the rib and pointed out his white hot angry facial expression. Vince said if Henry could be that guy all the time, they could make a lot of money together. Henry said Vince didn't want that guy, because he couldn't control his emotions. Vince said, "Yes, you can!" Thus, the "Hall of Pain" was born. Henry did skirt around the issue of not wanting to perpetuate an "angry black man" stereotype, but he seems to feel like it worked because of everything that led up to that point. I can agree with that. 

- Jim Ross Is A Grouchy Hateful Vile Human Being. Well, not really, but he did tell Henry to his face that he wasn't going to make it - in front of Vince - and that Vince should cut his losses. After Henry won the World Title, he was booked to confront J.R. on TV and demand an apology. During the angle, he claims he started choking J.R. legitimately. Ironically, Mark loves J.R. now, because J.R. has been a mentor to him, giving him about advice about his radio show. 

- The only disappointment is that the fake retirement salmon coat angle with Cena isn't mentioned at all. Instead, the show ends with both men praising Keith Lee but saying he "still has a ways to go."

This only scratches the surface of everything that's covered, so it's still well worth watching.

[C.S.]

Tales from the Deadman was a quick and fun 20+ minutes. It was formatted sort of like those WWE Story Time shows, with a story being told as an animation played out. There was also archival footage and talking head segments with Undertaker, Bruce Prichard, etc. 

Timothy Olyphant narrated it. Did he also narrate The Last Ride? I can't remember.

[SteveJRogers]

On 6/26/2020 at 3:38 PM, C.S. said:

I doubt it, because AJ specifically said on the documentary that the match was built around fans wanting to see Taker kick AJ's ass.

Nothing in the build, with AJ making it so personal, suggested that he would be the one going over.

Now, if the feud didn't get personal until after the shutdown (I'm not sure), then maybe AJ was originally scheduled to win. I still don't think so though.

The only counter point I can make is Rock’s pure heel act leading up to his match with Austin at 19.  

Like Taker-AJ, it was only fandom or media speculation that Austin was making his final competitive in ring appearance.  In fact, I don’t think Austin, to this day formally said “yeah, my in-ring days are officially done!”

But, there it was, Rock got the pin as Austin went out looking at the lights.  

But I’m sure if circumstances were different, and they had to do some sort of cinematic literal “Bar Room Brawl” match, Austin would have ended up having a beer bash toast on top of the bar.