Success Of The WWE Wellness Policy

[Fantastic]

It's definitely helped a fair few wrestlers and others associated with the business. It's been a good intervention for some who've needed it also.

 

However, it's simply a joke when it comes to deterring PED and AAS usage. The respective sizes of Triple H, Brock Lesnar, and John Cena, to name a few, stand out.

 

Thoughts?

[SteveJRogers]

It's definitely helped a fair few wrestlers and others associated with the business. It's been a good intervention for some who've needed it also.

 

However, it's simply a joke when it comes to deterring PED and AAS usage. The respective sizes of Triple H, Brock Lesnar, and John Cena, to name a few, stand out.

 

Thoughts?

I agree with the sentiment, but either assume they all do/know ways around testing/whatever, or they don't until they show up.

 

Like in baseball, the worse thing about the blind eyes getting turned is that since people are quick to judge based on anedoctal evidence, rumors and innuendo, so its safter to assume one, or the other until they get busted.

 

I mean sure, the guys listed probably do, and chances are a Daniel Bryan doesn't, but for this conversation to stay thoughtful and not fall into trolling flame wars, keep in mind the Bartolo Colons who failed baseball PEDs and Frank Thomases who people swear was clean based on how anti-PED he was/is in public statements.

[Loss]

It's too early to see if it will stick, but physique matters less than it has in quite some time. Yes, fans expect guys to look in shape, but I feel like the days of guys popping for the muscle guys are behind us. Of course, if internal decisions are still based on size, it doesn't matter if it plays a role in getting over or not. I agree that specifically HHH and Batista have physiques that are nearly impossible for guys in their mid-40s, but even they are both far slimmer than they used to be.

[Matt Farmer]

Triple H and Batista both look a good 30lbs smaller than at their peaks. Hunter looked much smaller in his shoulders and I would doubt he was on anything or much of anything.

 

As long as guys aren't abusing them like many were in the past I could care less if everyone does a cycle or two a year. Heck if used in small doses it's much safer than smoking or dipping.

[Loss]

The funny thing is that there would be very little steroid/HGH use in wrestling if promoters based pushes on speaking skills, in-ring ability and capacity for connecting with a crowd only. Bombarding wrestlers with drug tests while only pushing guys who are huge is a pretty big mixed message.

[(BP)]

Nobody stands out as freakishy huge now. Brock isn't exactly chiseled any longer, and HHH and Batista are trim compared to where they used to be. Orton's definitely off of whatever made him swell in 2007. Weight cutting stuff is probably still prevalent. Whatever Cena takes to come back from injuries so quickly is probably bad news too.

[Childs]

If you don't think Brock is freakishly huge, you've lost all sense of human proportion.

[(BP)]

Haha fair. Brock's a freak of nature though, I don't think he's on the gas.

[kjh]

How successful the WWE Wellness Policy is will be determined by the mortality of the current generation of WWE stars. Obviously things are much better than they were, but whether that is good enough remains to be seen.

[Fantastic]

Nobody stands out as freakishy huge now. Brock isn't exactly chiseled any longer,

 

 

and HHH and Batista are trim compared to where they used to be. Orton's definitely off of whatever made him swell in 2007. Weight cutting stuff is probably still prevalent. Whatever Cena takes to come back from injuries so quickly is probably bad news too.

 

Brock is at least 280lbs and under 20% body fat.. That isn't natural! Compare his physique now with his physique during his UFC run, he's far bigger, although he was at his biggest and most defined in 2002/2003. Even though Brock has far more time on his hands to train effectively and recover, he's still sporting an unnatural physique.

 

Orton is far too chiselled and lean year round to be perceived as completely natural, I don't know whether weight cutting drugs are exempt from the policy or not.

 

As for Batista and Triple H, whilst both are noticeably smaller than they used to be, they are still massive whilst being well into their 40's. It doesn't make sense without any pharmaceutical assistance. Notice how quickly Batista gained size whilst preparing for his WWE return after leaving the MMA dream behind?

 

Cena's huge, and recovers ridiculously fast. He's gradually, but has consistently gained size since his return from the tricep injury in 2008 too. His feats of recovery harken back to the MLB controversy, and we all know what the deal was there...

[(BP)]

I've always given guys the benefit of doubt when they probably didn't deserve it. Rey got suspended for testing positive for weight cutting drugs two years ago.

[Robert S]

Nobody stands out as freakishy huge now.

There are several "too big to be true" guys, most notably Big E and Ryback.

[Robert S]

As for Batista and Triple H, whilst both are noticeably smaller than they used to be, they are still massive whilst being well into their 40's. It doesn't make sense without any pharmaceutical assistance. Notice how quickly Batista gained size whilst preparing for his WWE return after leaving the MMA dream behind?

If I remember correctly Batista is even much bigger now than he was at Royal Rumble.

[(BP)]

I need to establish a baseline because I'm out of my depth here. Who's a larger guy on the roster who's almost certainly not on a PED or AAS? Cesaro?

[cm funk]

It's been a success IMO. Athletes will always use drugs. They'll always find ways to beat the system. And especially in wrestling which is largely cosmetic and the physicality and grind of the schedule, the injuries, etc. etc. There's been some questionable physiques, and obvious stuff like Rock being jacked to the gills. For the overall health of their performers it's no doubt been a positive, and hopefully we see that long term with less guys dropping dead in the 40's and 50's. Top to bottom on the roster guys are leaner and more natural looking. Also, you have to also give credit to the IMPACT testing and a better approach to medical testing/physicals as things that are good for the talent and good for the company.

[cm funk]

Also, I agree with StevenJRogers, the whole "who is and isn't on what" game is pointless. I've seen baseball threads derailed by it and it never ends well. I just assume anyone who says, "I'm clean, I never used that stuff" is lying, always. And I don't care. I don't know what Cena is or isn't on now, I find it nearly impossible to believe he hasn't used in the past, but I honestly don't care. I don't think taking steroids or HGH or weight cutters or anything like that is immoral, nor should it be illegal.

[mookeighana]

I've always given guys the benefit of doubt when they probably didn't deserve it. Rey got suspended for testing positive for weight cutting drugs two years ago.

That was his second violation.

 

He was also suspended back on 8/27/09 for 30 days. And he was tied to Dr. Astin (Benoit's doc) back in 2007 (an unusual patient for someone who lived in CA but visited a doctor in GA).

"O.G." had been prescribed 120 Percosets, 150 Lorcets and refills allowed for 450 more Lorcets on June 28, 2006. He received a similar level of medication a few weeks later on July 20, 2006. He was listed as having only made those two visits to Astin.

Also, Rey was tied to Dr. David Wilbirt of Arizona from whom, according to SI, Mysterio was getting perscriptions for Nandrolone and Stanozolol (steroids).

 

I was surprised Rey only tested positive for amphetamines on 4/26/12.

[Fantastic]

I need to establish a baseline because I'm out of my depth here. Who's a larger guy on the roster who's almost certainly not on a PED or AAS? Cesaro?

 

Mark Henry.... He was north of 350lbs when competing in the Olympics and in several drug tested powerlifting federations. Henry has also been incredibly outspoken against those in the sports of powerlifting and weightlifting who use PEDs. I believe Henry still regualrly submits to drug tests as some kind of membership clause in one of the feds he's a member of. Whilst it's possible Henry has been stringing us along since the beginning, I'm inclined to believe he's truly a once in a century athlete who's natural incredibly strength is futher augmented by his ferocious appetite which has lead to his size and it's retention all these years.

 

To be honest, we don't really know who truly is and who truly isn't, my issue comes with the fact that several wrestlers on the roster are sporting typical AAS crafted physiques in light of a wellness program designed to prevent the usage of AAS and PEDs.

 

Out of everyone on the roster, the only ones I'd wager aren't (currently) taking anything are:

 

- Mark Henry (as previously mentioned)

- Hornswoggle

- Daniel Bryan

- Santino Marella

- CM Punk

- Dean Ambrose

- William Regal

 

- AJ Lee

- Cameron

- Naomi

- Emma

- Paige

[BillThompson]

To be frank, the wellness policy is still a joke. I don't really think it's affected anything, or changed the climate at all. The wrestlers have simply done what all athletes do, find new ways around the test and changed the types of PEDs they are taking.

[Matt Farmer]

Usage is definitely down, but once again the biggest issue was not steroids it was pain killers.

 

For a guy to go on a cycle or two once a year isn't going to have a major effect on their health. Smoking cigarettes are more dangerous than an occasional cycles is going to have on you anyways. It's the massive use that causes long term health issues.

[SteveJRogers]

Also, I agree with StevenJRogers, the whole "who is and isn't on what" game is pointless. I've seen baseball threads derailed by it and it never ends well. I just assume anyone who says, "I'm clean, I never used that stuff" is lying, always. And I don't care. I don't know what Cena is or isn't on now, I find it nearly impossible to believe he hasn't used in the past, but I honestly don't care. I don't think taking steroids or HGH or weight cutters or anything like that is immoral, nor should it be illegal.

And that is besides the laughable high horse the baseball writers are on when it comes to the Hall of Fame based on rumors and anecdotal evidence. And the arbitrary delination of when the steroid era began and ended (if it ever will).

[fxnj]

Usage is definitely down, but once again the biggest issue was not steroids it was pain killers.

 

For a guy to go on a cycle or two once a year isn't going to have a major effect on their health. Smoking cigarettes are more dangerous than an occasional cycles is going to have on you anyways. It's the massive use that causes long term health issues.

Agreed. Also, when you actually look into the supplements that athletes take, the line between what is/isn't a PED and what is/isn'tharmful is a lot more blurry than topics like these make it seem. The idea that we should shame people for taking something someone has decided to call a "performance enhancing drug," as if drugs are taken for purposes other than enhancing performance in some way, is utterly ridiculous to me. These are grown men who I would wager have spent far more time looking into these drugs and weighing the risks involved than random message board posters, so if they want to dope they should fucking be allowed to dope.

[Bix]

Usage is definitely down, but once again the biggest issue was not steroids it was pain killers.

For a guy to go on a cycle or two once a year isn't going to have a major effect on their health. Smoking cigarettes are more dangerous than an occasional cycles is going to have on you anyways. It's the massive use that causes long term health issues.

The issue has never been guys going on one or two cycles a year, though, has it?

[Matt Farmer]

No of course not, I remember working a tour with a now dead wrestler from Calgary. He ran in the same circles as the other Calgary boys, got his gimmicks from the same crew etc. I asked him about his cycle, as in what how often etc. He told me point blank that he has been on a cycle almost non stop for 15 years. And that was common with his crew! A guy like Chris Benoit or Eddy Guerrero probably didn't go more than a month or two without cycling something. TV didn't do him justice for how thick both men were due to their constant use. Not to mention to what amounts they were stacking!

 

If a doctor for instance was to perscribe you testosterone, which I took for a short period due to a major back injury. You were injected with one or two CC's of test once every 6 or so days for 10 or twelve weeks. Yet many wrestlers or bodybuilders are taking 10 times that amount and stack Winstrol, Deca or what ever else they want to use. The cycle of test I described would cost ya maybe $150. And with that you will see increases in your lifts and notice it. Most of these guys on the top end were spending thousands of dollars a month! I cannot imagine ingesting that much.

 

Just that extra muscle on your frame could cause health issues alone.

 

It's definitely the over abuse of the drugs that kill you, not the use alone.

[(BP)]

Meltzer mentioned at the time of Benoit's death that he never cycled off, even when he was injured or off TV. He was afraid of anyone running in to him and seeing him smaller.