ceejay519 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 We are all out there. The Heel Fan. We cheer the heel, we boo the face...............but how did we get there? What is your experience? I'll share mine if you will. My father took me to my first live event when I was 8 years old. It was a Tunney show at Maple Leaf Gardens in 1980 (maybe 81). My favourite wrestler at the time was Jay Youngblood. He was to do battle that night against Ivan Koloff. My Dad got us ringside seats and I was in heaven. Just seeing these larger than life heroes and villans that I had seen on my TV screen up close was surreal. At one point during the undercard my Dad tapped me on the shoulder and said "hey look over by the door". I turned and there he was live and in living color and only about 20 feet away...........Jay Youngblood. Native Headress and all watching the matches and chatting up a young lady. Seeing my hero so close I had to go up and wish him good luck and maybe get an autograph. I awkwardly walked up to him with my "Stranglehold" program (Toronto fans will know what I'm talking about) outstretched and asked Jay if he could give me an autograph. Jay sort of shrugged and said "Not now kid...........maybe later", and went right back to chatting up the ring rat. I sort of stood there for a second and then walked back to my seat dejected. My Dad asked to see the autograph. I hung my head down and said......."well he can't right now he said maybe later". At this point a couple of dudes in the row in front of us (wearing homemade Roddy Piper and Ric Flair t-shirts) turned around and said "What the Fuck! Youngblood wouldn't give you an autograph..........what an Asshole!". Other people in the section began to pay attention.........word seems to get around at ringside. When Jay marched down the ramp to the ring for his match, the whole section of ringside we were sitting in loudly booed the hero. "What's wrong with you Youngblood, can't give a kid an autograph..........Fuck you!" the dude in the Piper shirt said. When Koloff came out everyone in our row stood up and cheered for him, It was so weird to me at the time. How could they cheer this evil Russian? Koloff won clean with a knee to the back off the top rope and our section erupted! Me. still being the Youngblood fan was confused and still unsure of my feelings. Seeing my hero destroyed was not enough to make me a heel fan. I did not see the justice in what had just happened. Next match was Roddy Piper and Ray Stevens against Ric Flair and Tony Parisi. Stevens and Piper destroyed the face team. Ric's long blond hair was stained red with blood. The match was brutal and awesome. An all out tag brawl that had the right amount of violence and bloodshed that made the Toronto fans go crazy. I was riveted, the match took my breath away. Piper and Stevens seemed like the coolest wrestlers ever. I was turning. Fuck Jay Youngblood! He just did a cheesy native dance threw some chops and Koloff still beat him clean. The whole match was a setup for Flair to come back the next month with Andre as his partner against this dastardly duo that made him bleed. Awesome! As we were leaving, Ray Stevens was standing in the corridor. His ring boots slung over his shoulder, smoking a cigarette. I stared at him as we walked by. He smiled, gave me a wink and said "have a good time tonight kid?" I nodded and said "yes sir!". A heel fan was born! Well that is my story. Hope you like it. Hope to hear some of yours. Shoutout to Kelly at Titans. Would love to chat Canadian territories with you. Went to a few Tunney shows but where I lived International Wrestling (Brito-Rougeau-Bravo-Martel territory) was king. Also have a few Bearman show stories as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I bet Ray Stevens seemed like the coolest man in the entire world to you! Ceejay, look out for a Titans Xtra in a couple of weeks when we'll be devoting a whole show to breaking down rosters from the Canadian territories circa 1981. I'm really looking forward to Kelly's take on how those promotions compared, some of our off-air chats about that sort of thing have been pretty interesting. However, I came to this thread because I'm also a heel fan, and for me I just love villainy and get a real kick out of it. As a kid, I legit rooted for Skeletor and was disappointed when He-Man would kick his arse every week. I LOVED Batman because of the villains -- especially the 1966 versions of the characters. I'd go as far as to say that were it not for larger than life heels, I probably wouldn't be a wrestling fan period. That was the hook for me. I rooted for heels properly. I genuinely Hogan to lose and would always be disappointed when he'd win again after every show. I bought into Jesse Venutra's take on things wholesale. I even tried to justify Bobby Heenan's BS to friends and things. I was basically a propagandist for the heel point of view. Hated Warrior, hated Bret Hart, hated Dusty, really HATED Duggan. There were certain babyfaces I could tolerate: Randy Savage as a face I liked. Ricky Steamboat also, looked so cool to me as a kid that I liked him despite being a goody-two-shoes. I still liked Mr. Perfect when he turned face, but supported Ric Flair in that fued. I used to get worked up about injustices, especially when the rules would change just to suit Hogan. When the ref ordered that Money Inc would lose the titles on a count out at Wrestlemania 9, I was up in arms. I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. For me a combination of: - villainy is cooler and much more FUN than heroism - the show WANTS you to think in a certain way, and so the intellectual rebel goes the opposite way - connected with the above when everyone loves one thing, some people of a certain disposition carve out a niche in the other direction. All your mates like Ultimate Warrior? Fuck that, I'm going to like IRS. - more heels have beards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subatomic_elbow Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The Fabulous Freebirds. 1983 or 84. I was a kid in Texas. They were cool as hell. I cheered them at home, not knowing I was on the wrong side. It continued when I moved to Virginia and started watching WCW. Bad guys in units watched each other's backs. They had fun. They made money. Why be Sting when you can join the goddamn 4 Horsemen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 As a kid, I legit rooted for Skeletor and was disappointed when He-Man would kick his arse every week. I LOVED Batman because of the villains -- especially the 1966 versions of the characters. I'd go as far as to say that were it not for larger than life heels, I probably wouldn't be a wrestling fan period. That was the hook for me. I was never a strictly heel fan, but I can definitely relate to this. I got into comics right before I started to watch wrestling and I think the initial appeal of wrestling was that it was like a comic book come to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I always go back to the Mega Powers Exploding. I was 5 years old, almost 6, and a gigantic Randy Savage mark. I liked Hogan too, sure, but Savage was my guy. He was the champ and so super cool, with all the top rope offense and athleticism. As they built the tension in the Mega Powers, Savage always seemed to be on the right side of it. Hogan is the one that dumps him in the Royal Rumble. Hogan should be able to take care of himself on SNME, and Savage is only really needed to defend Elizabeth. And then, of course, the Main Event... why exactly does Hogan wander back to the dressing room with Elizabeth in his arms? Particularly if he's not totally into her? Savage was right - Hogan is a bad friend and has jealous eyes. I cheered like hell when Savage beat the crap out of Hogan and tore up that dressing room. Savage was still the man, even if a lot of other people cheered Hogan. And that cemented me as a Savage fan forever, and made me more open to cheering heels (although I still cheered plenty of babyfaces). I imagine a lot of us have similar stories relating to Hogan. In general, I think the kids that gravitated to heels were the ones that were a bit more logical, and could see the logic in the heel's arguments ("He's right - the crowd didn't respect him!"). Hogan was often presented as a dumb whiner, and made some really sympathetic heels. Hogan is a giant asshole to Paul Orndorff before Paul turns on him. Andre is right that Hogan is a glory and spotlight hog. Hogan responds to the screw job against Andre by crying, instead of declaring that he's going to destroy Andre or Dibiase and get his belt back. The list goes on. If you were thinking critically at all, Hogan was a terrible character to try and cheer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 One of the funniest, biggest 'what an asshole!' moments with Hogan was his celebrating beating Sheik for his first WWF title. He's backstage, Mean Gene, champagne, camaradarie etc and then Gene introduces his proud parents. Gene asks his father something, and the poor man gets a few words out before Hogan interrupts and launches into another yelling Hulkamaniac tirade. His own father! It's hilarious though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't forget Hogan pearl-harboring Sheik in the beginning of the match. I don't know how much of that aspect to the character was in the AWA, but it's pretty consistent through his big run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 One thing I think makes a heel fan is that they see them as the ultimate underdogs because they are characters designed, ultimately, to lose. I think this speaks more to how "real" it can feel for us. Those same people are likely not going to go into a movie and cheer for Bruce Willis to be killed. Yes they'll laugh at the villain's one-liners as much as they will his, but they'll jump cathartically when he gets his due in the end like the majority of wrestling fans would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 One of the most endearing aspects of the AWA was their tendency to turn long-time killer heels face as their careers progressed, usually towards the end of what one would perceive as the end of their time as a winning guy. As such, you got the best of both worlds, since the guys were still brawling heels, but they were now beating up other heels and teaming with the faces, often "teaching them how to be mean and to fight dirty." A point brought up during the DVDVR AWA project was how often the faces in the AWA cheated and got away with it. That in itself probably swayed a lot of people in the area to cheer the heels over time. A lot of the old time AWA guys I talk to definitely had a heel preference in their tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey ceejay, great post man! Awesome story. I grew up in Calgary and became a big fan of wrestling in 1986, watching both WWF and Stampede religiously. I never went to a Stampede card during its proper run. I think I was too young to get why you would want to go see something live that was already on TV. Plus my dad hated wrestling and I think he was leery of going to a show with the riff raff at the Victoria Pavilion near the skid row Victoria Park area of Calgary. I went to a couple WWF shows in early 1989, and I did go to the Stampede reunion in early 1992 at the Pavilion put together by Bad News Allen, where Jericho met Benoit for the first time according to his first book. My friends and I went to several Rocky Mountain Wrestling cards in 93, which were a blast. Migs post about the Megapowers rings true. I was a big Savage fan and didn't really dig Hogan that much - too powerful, like Superman. I totally thought Savage was in the right and Hogan was being a dick. I lost interest in wrestling after Mania V and I think Hogan returning to the top was a big reason why. It was easy to become a heel fan in the early 90s because most of the babyfaces were stuck in the 80s cartoons and pretty lame. I hated it when WWF kept turning heels I liked (Ramon, Luger, Doink, Diesel) faces. I was a total heel fan as a teenager. I even liked Ludwig Borga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay519 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 God help me, I liked Ludvig Borga as well! There was a Colliseum match between him and Razor that I remember really enjoying. Thanks for the kind words. It was my first time posting.Really enjoy the work you guys do on Titans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Re: the Mega Powers... I started watching wrestling while Hogan was off filming No Holds Barred, so I literally had no idea who he was until Savage announced him as his partner for SummerSlam. I vividly remember Dibiase making some remark about Hogan crawling out of the rock he'd been hiding under and wondering just who this guy was. The cool thing about Savage is that when he became the Macho King he didn't lose any of the qualities that made you like him as a face. I guess that's because he was a heel who became popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Never really seen the point in liking a heel. They are the guys we are supposed to hate. We want the face to beat the Heel. The other way around well throw morals out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 That would work if the faces weren't all dickheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I always seemed to gravitate to the heels, Randy Savage and the Horsemen were the coolest guys in the universe to 1987 me. It didn't help matters that the WWF kept pushing Hulk as a moral babyface with the "prayers and vitamins" stuff, and I kept thinking what a dick he was to his friends all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Never really seen the point in liking a heel. They are the guys we are supposed to hate. We want the face to beat the Heel. The other way around well throw morals out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 yeah, anyone seen the "superman is a dick" website? hogan was pretty much on par with that haha i was much more of a classic mark the first time i watched wrestling, in 92-93. when i came back for the attitude era i definitely became much more of a heel fan, while my brother preferred to act the way a fan is "supposed" to. WCW jericho was a sore point of division with us, and i trolled the heck out of him by recording the raw when the millennium countdown ended and playing it for him when we got back home that night! i already knew it would be jericho because he basically gave that away on his own website, but my brother badly wanted to believe it was ANYTHING else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy hats Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 you're addicted to throwing morals out the window, funkdoc. smh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Isn't it awfully presumptuous of us to pass moral judgment on people we don't personally know? How about we reflect and ask ourselves what makes us so desperate to tear other people down? Heels are people too, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've always thought that a post-modern relativist would make a great heel in wrestling. The Relativist could be a masked wrestler, similar to The Assassin, who would come out to quibble with the morality of Hogan et al. His submission hold could be called Deconstruction. His foreign object could be a copy of Roland Barthes's mythologies with a book mark at the start of the wrestling essay. His occasional tag partner could be called The Other, who cuts promos about Levinas. ------ Mean Gene: So tonight, you're going to be facing Brutus "the Barber" Beefcake, who thinks he can beat you inside the squared circle. The Relativist: Well, Gene, victory and defeat are relative, man-made constructs. *Mean Gene rolls his eyes* The Relativist: "Cutting and strutting" is a grand metanarrative of which we should be suspicious. In the tradition of Jean-Francois Lyotard, I will be tearing down the constructs of the genre. Mean Gene: So are you going to WIN the match? The Relativist: What is "a match"? *Mean Gene walks away looking puzzled* Perfect heel for a promotion run by Vince McMahon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 wooooooooooooossssssssh Something just went way over my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 One thing I think makes a heel fan is that they see them as the ultimate underdogs because they are characters designed, ultimately, to lose. I think it's the exact opposite. My theory is that a lot of heel fans grew up watching promotions where the heels never really got their comeuppance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think heels generally make more interesting characters than faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 One of the most endearing aspects of the AWA was their tendency to turn long-time killer heels face as their careers progressed, usually towards the end of what one would perceive as the end of their time as a winning guy. As such, you got the best of both worlds, since the guys were still brawling heels, but they were now beating up other heels and teaming with the faces, often "teaching them how to be mean and to fight dirty." I love that last part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Anyway... The heels were funny and better. Ric Flair, Cornette, the Horsemen and the Midnight Express. There were the funniest and best guys in JCP in 1986. It didn't matter that they were getting their rear ends kicked. It was clear that they were the better performers than the faces. Plus it was fun to be a heel fan at a live show. You could wind up the face fans in a good natured way, and them bump and stooge just like the heels were when the tide of the match turned. And when they got their asses kicked, you could come up with lame bullshit to cover for it after the match: DUSTY FAN: *taunting* "Ric's got his ass kicked!" HEEL FAN: "Sure he got his ass kicked, but he's still the Champ!" DUSTY FAN: "Yeah... he's a pussy s running back to the locker room!" HEEL FAN: "With those 10 Pounds of Gold in his hands that Dusty ain't getting tonight... WOOOOO~!" Wrestling is stupid entertainment. Being a heel fan invited you to get stupid with it in a way of being "in on it" even before we knew better words for it. In contrast, being a face fan made you stupid: you were lapping up the bullshit the promotion was serving you. So of course the Heel Fans were always the Snob Fans of the era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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