JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling-32-wwwf-at-madison-square-garden-march-17th-1975/ Parv, Pete, Johnny and Kelly lanny leap back to 1975 for this MSG card. On the docket: Indian Jay Strongbow vs. Butcher Vachon Bruno Sammartino vs. Sprios Arion Killer Kowalski vs. Victor Rivera The Valiants vs. Tony Garea and Dean Ho On this show: - Talking point: Bruno vs. Hogan as two different types of draws - Spiros Arion, the forgotten man - Kowalski vs. Rivera one of the worst matches of all time on one of the worst cards of all time? - Why did Vince Sr structure his cards in the way he did? - Plus: has Titans Xtra caused tension in the Fab Four?, Bruno's hair, Bob E. Lee (the Finks predecessor at MSG), and much much more. The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks to the amazing Travis Heckel on Twitter: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Listening right now and enjoying the discussion on Bruno as a draw. For a comparison of territories, what about the AWA during the 70s/80s when it was hitting up Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Winnipeg, and Denver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 That's actually a great point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 That's actually a great point.That's a fantastic point, and they had hockey arenas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 What sort of gates were each of those houses though? Is Chicago really comparable to MSG? Milwaukee to Philly? Winnipeg to Boston, etc., etc. Where's that khawk signal!! I don't really have a sense of how well their top draws drew in the different places. Would Crusher and Dick the Bruiser sell out around the horn? Was Verne popular everywhere? My gut feeling is that the metropolitan areas of the Mid-West and Great Lakes just don't compare at all with the North East. New York area has 20 million+ alone, another 8-9 million in Pennsylvania, another 7 or 8 in Boston area, that's without getting into significant secondary markets like Pittsburgh or Baltimore. One thing people don't talk about much is how (W)WWF / Capitol was actually an amalgamation of smaller promotions that were united under Toots Mondt and Vince Sr. It wasn't like one territory, it was already like 4 or 5 in one. Outside of the Chicago area, the metropolitan areas for AWA country are all more like 2-3 million people. By my reckoning the total net of potential people of for (W)WWF was at least five times as big as AWA's, if not more. You can even take out New York entirely, and it would still be bigger. Still, if AWA were drawing 15,000+ gates in at least four major towns month to month, then I stand to be corrected, and it would be in a sense more impressive than what WWF were doing because the pool is that much smaller. But I'll leave it for the numbers guys. PS. Love those pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 No way the AWA can stand up to the numbers of the (W)WWF, but it's the closest comparison I can think of for hitting major cities and buildings over a broad geographic area. A quick look at cagematch says AWA shows were run more in stadiums nearing 10,000 rather than the 16,000+ for WWF. Chicago shows for AWA usually were at the International Amphitheater, which sat about 10,000, though they did run Comiskey Park a handful of times for the really big shows with mixed draws. And the UIC Pavilion in '88, which is another 10,000 seater or so. WWF had the major benefit of being in that megalopolis while the AWA had far greater distances to travel. Nothing/no one from that territory matches Bruno in his runs but it's a nice comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 "16,000 Archie Bunkers going to watch wrestling and chew on their cigars" Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I felt I generalized 70's wrestling way too much on that show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I'd love to know why they didn't use the Knicks' PA guy (I'd assume he was also the Rangers' PA guy as well), John Condon for ring announcing duties? Not like PA announcers were exclusive to one venue, etc. Heh, can you imagine iconic Yankee Stadium announcer Bob Sheppard introducing wrestlers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I think comparing AWA and WWWF shows in terms of how much each drew consistently is probably better suited to do on a percentage basis given the size of the venues is different. The AWA arenas of the 70's such as the Ampitheater in Chicago, Arena in Winnipeg and the Minneapolis Auditorium at maxed out at 10-11000. Milwaukee maxed out at 6112. There can't be a true numeric comparison to the larger venues of MSG, Boston, and Philly in terms of sheer asses in seats since the WWWF arenas generally seemed to be able to seat a lot more. EDIT: I did a brief bit of research and Milwaukee could also host cards in excess of 10,000 on occasion, so it's likely they used a smaller venue (the 6112 one) for most events and moved to the big one when warranted. Denver's Auditorium arena was noted on one card as having "a turnaway crowd of 8000+" which says to me that was the max at that particular venue.) Something else to consider in terms of the main base of the AWA, Minneapolis/St. Paul is that the AWA at times ran cards 3 weeks apart separately in each city. Eventually the St. Paul Civic Center became the main venue in the 80's, and it maxed out at around 16000. I would guess it is the biggest venue they ran regularly, and that really wasn't until the 80's as I recall. I would agree that the drawing base for the WWWF was far greater and the numbers they drew in their bigger venues bore that out from everything I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 That IYH Buried Alive PPV from October 1996 that Mick wrote about actually was the last PPV before this year's Battleground that did NOT feature a Heavyweight Champion involved in a match on the PPV proper. Shawn Michaels did however have a title match against Goldust (Dustin's only PPV shot at a heavyweight title) in a post PPV match: from http://prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/wwf/wwfindex.html Buried Alive October 20, 1996 in Indianapolis, IN Market Square Arena drawing 9,649 ($135,605) Shown live on PPV (0.4) Barry Windham pinned Justin Bradshaw (20:00). Steve Austin pinned Hunter Hearst Helmsley (15:30). WWF Tag Champs Davey Smith & Owen Hart beat The Smoking Gunns (9:17) when Owen pinned Billy. WWF I-C Champ Marc Mero pinned Goldust (11:38). Sycho Sid pinned Vader (8:00). The Undertaker beat Mankind (18:25) in a "buried alive" match. Henry & Phineas Godwinn beat The New Rockers when pinned Cassidy was pinned. WWF World Champ Shawn Michaels pinned Goldust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Haha, glad to see my photoshops made it here. Working by myself at night, I have tons of time to listen to podcasts. Started listening to Titans again and have TONS more from each episode. Yes, no life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 UK, are you a fan of the Chiefs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 UK, are you a fan of the Chiefs? Could you tell by my screen name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 I just used to know a guy who was big into wrestling, photoshops and the Chiefs. You remind me of him a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 I just used to know a guy who was big into wrestling, photoshops and the Chiefs. You remind me of him a little Ahh, sorry. I'm a big football guy, but don't have a fav team (only cheer for Kentucky in sports). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Not that it is relevant to this thread (but hey, a friendly "bump") but SteveJRogers - I'm guessing you mean the Payback show, but also worth noting that TLC 2012 didn't feature Punk due to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Not that it is relevant to this thread (but hey, a friendly "bump") but SteveJRogers - I'm guessing you mean the Payback show, but also worth noting that TLC 2012 didn't feature Punk due to injury. As someone who should be in midst of tracking the WHC on WWE PPV for a PTBN piece (that's a shit ton of acronyms)...D'OH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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