Rey Mysterio Jr.

[dawho5]

I tend to not worry about what you call a thing and more about if it's effective in doing the job it was meant to do. So call it whatever you like, but if somebody who has watched a lot of a certain wrestler wants to throw out match recommendations I'm perfectly happy to see them.

[bradhindsight]

Rey really had a GREAT 2009-2010. He goes from Jericho to putting over Ziggler and Morrison with great matches. Then the Batista stuff (I'm glad that 1/15 cage match made your list), right into the Rumble match with Taker and then into the feud with Punk. I thought his stuff with Swagger was very good and he transitioned right into feuding with Del Rio after.

[MJH]

So Loss posed Cena vs. Jericho in the former's thread... but the issue for Rey with me is similar, and the "Jericho" is Eddie. Not thinking about it too hard, admittedly, were someone to ask me "what are Rey's two best matches?" I'd say both are vs. Eddie (Havoc, obviously, and the 6/05 Smackdown match), and in both Eddie is the better. But Rey has the longer list of strong TV matches (though I'm struggling to think of truly great matches), and was far more consistent, is a superlative babyface worker, and you could absolutely make the case that, career vs. career, Rey's was better. But, because Eddie's the better in their matches, I just can't put him ahead of Eddie. Thoughts? (and feel free to disagree on Eddie as better in those matches).

[funkdoc]

But, because Eddie's the better in their matches, I just can't put him ahead of Eddie. Thoughts? (and feel free to disagree on Eddie as better in those matches).

 

sports analogy time!

 

if you look at the colts in peyton manning's prime vs. the chargers in ladanian tomlinson's prime, the chargers won the majority of those games. however, the colts consistently fared better against the rest of the NFL and won a super bowl during that time, while the chargers never sniffed the big game. it just so happened that those chargers teams had strengths & weaknesses that matched up exceptionally well with the colts', so they would win there despite clearly being the worse overall team.

 

i think you could very reasonably say that rey would be the colts in this equation. you can't judge who's better from one particular matchup, even if it's been done multiple times over a period of years.

[Jimmy Redman]

If only someone had done similar lists for Ric Flair ...

No offense meant Loss!

 

I just had stomper's list on the brain I guess, and it was the recent talk about indy guys and due diligence that made me want to expand and also do a top four, so I was thinking of those kinds of topics rather than Flair. Plus "Stomper List" is catchy.

 

For what it's worth your Flair lists are amazing in scope and when I start to look at Flair they'll be invaluable and my reference point.

 

As an aside I think you'll like it when I explore Flair. I've seen quite a bit of him by now but so much of his 80s run is still completely new to me, so I'll be able to take him like any other candidate, whereas most other people are tired of Flair, or at least well versed in him already, hence the lack of talk about his case that you found frustrating.

[Loss]

I apologize. I was being snarky but I did only mean it as a joke. I like the name Stomper List myself.

 

Here's some 90s lucha Rey I'd recommend for people that want to get a feel for how he was early in his career:

 

11/30/94 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera

04/21/95 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera

09/22/95 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis

06/16/95 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera

03/16/96 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera

02/21/97 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs El Hijo del Santo

 

There is also the touring matches he had in Japan. I don't think any of them are particularly strong, but they do help to paint a complete picture.

 

12/13/95 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis (Super J Cup)

04/19/96 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis

07/20/96 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera

10/11/96 - Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis

 

My personal opinion on these matches was that Psicosis was the one carrying him. I do think that early on, while Rey was the more dynamic high flyer and was so exceptionally good at it that he received quite a bit of much-deserved attention, Psicosis was the more complete wrestler. That's actually reflected in worker polls that happened among hardcores at the time too. Rey did eventually surpass Psicosis, which is the big difference between them - Rey continued to evolve and improve while Psicosis peaked early and that was it. Juventud had moments of brilliance, but I do think Rey was always the more consistent wrestler of the two, as Juventud also had some terrible off nights.

[Jesse Ewiak]

That Stomper list makes me want to steal it and post it over on Reddit to shut up the people who said Rey has sucked for years.

[Chess Knight]

There are so many more Rey matches that can be added, as well. I'm going to watch them again soon b/c I've been making a 2010 WWE list, but I remember his matches with Luke Gallows being excellent. Lovvvvvved the Mike Knox match from February. He had an awesome match with McIntyre in 2010, as well. 2010 may be my favourite Rey year.

 

I love these big lists. Obviously if one for every wrestler is made, then not everybody involved will be able to watch everything for every wrestler, but the fact they're there is nice. Probably only truly unneeded for wrestlers who have something like a goodhelmet comp out, I guess?

 

Damn, I should make a big list for Mark Henry.

[Jimmy Redman]

If you're taking Henry (damn) then I bags Sheamus!

 

I apologize. I was being snarky but I did only mean it as a joke. I like the name Stomper List myself.

 

Here's some 90s lucha Rey I'd recommend for people that want to get a feel for how he was early in his career:

 

No need to apologise, I didn't take it as snark at all.

 

On lucha Rey, there's a tag with him and Sr. vs the Guerreras on Youtube that I've never got around to watching. Is it any good?

[Loss]

That matchup happened a few times and I've only seen one version of it. The 2/26/95 match is great and the others are supposed to be, but I haven't seen them.

[Exposer]

Possible top 5. Incredibly gifted worker. High spot machine in the 90s. All-time great seller in the 2000s. Possibly the most good TV matches on tape of all time.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

Someone needs to suggest WWE Rey Mysterio matches to check out. I know I've enjoyed the ones I've seen in the past, but not to the extent that he's top 10 all time. I will keep an open mind about it, but I'd like to do some match watching.

 

Off the top of my head...

 

Rey vs Chavo, Smackdown 25th July 2002 (debut)

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Summerslam 2002

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 12th Sept 2002

Rey vs Chris Benoit, Smackdown 3rd Oct 2002

Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit, No Mercy 2002

Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit (2/3 Falls), Smackdown 7th Nov 2002

Rey vs Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 14th Nov 2002

Rey & Edge vs Angle & Benoit vs Los Guerreros, Survivor Series 2002

 

I finished watching all of Rey's 2002 stuff and enjoyed every single match. Some of it I had seen before and some of it I hadn't. The weakest match was either the Benoit match or the Survivor Series three-way, but they were still solid matches. I love this era of WWE programming. I stopped watching the WWE regularly in 2001 because I wasn't happy with the in-ring product and wasn't following it online in 2002. I would have loved to have watched this era on a week-to-week basis. I love Kurt Angle in these matches, thought Edge was great, and adore the No Mercy tag. Perhaps my all-time favourite spotfest. As for Rey, his selling is good, he works well from underneath, great spots, really awesome set-ups for the 619. Watching this stuff has definitely cemented his place on my list. It's just a matter of how high.

[elliott]

Has anyone ever revisited the brief period of time Rey worked in Mexico post WCW and before WWE picked him up? This seems like a dead period for his career that no one ever talked about. I remember liking that stuff at the time. Unfortunately not much of that is online.

[Tim Evans]

I liked the CMLL matches and the match he had with Eddie Colon on WWC. Also had a decent match teaming with Nicho vs the Villano's in Tijuana.

[Dylan Waco]

I love 2002 Rey, but I'm not even sure it's one of his three best years in the WWE. It's definitely not as good as 06 or 09 at minimum.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 23rd Jan 2003

Rey vs Matt Hardy, Smackdown 5th June 2003

Rey & Kidman vs WGTT, Vengeance 2003

Rey vs Tajiri, Smackdown 4th Sept 2003

Rey vs Tajiri, No Mercy 2003

Rey vs Brock Lesnar, Smackdown 11th December 2003

 

Rey's 2003 was a step down from the freshness of the Smackdown Six era. Through no fault of his own, his matches began to seem spottier and more convoluted without the support of the previous year's booking. I watched some of the other bouts that Meltzer rated and there were only a few highlights to Rey's year. Winning the Cruiserweight title in front of his family was a nice moment, and he had two memorable spots -- an Asai moonsault in one of the WGTT matches and his tope against Taijiri during their Smackdown bout -- but none of the matches were great. I was looking forward to the Taijri bouts but they were more fun than good. The best bout was probably the match against Lesnar since it was an interesting cat vs. mouse narrative, but overall a down year

[Exposer]

 

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 23rd Jan 2003

Rey vs Matt Hardy, Smackdown 5th June 2003

Rey & Kidman vs WGTT, Vengeance 2003

Rey vs Tajiri, Smackdown 4th Sept 2003

Rey vs Tajiri, No Mercy 2003

Rey vs Brock Lesnar, Smackdown 11th December 2003

 

Rey's 2003 was a step down from the freshness of the Smackdown Six era. Through no fault of his own, his matches began to seem spottier and more convoluted without the support of the previous year's booking. I watched some of the other bouts that Meltzer rated and there were only a few highlights to Rey's year. Winning the Cruiserweight title in front of his family was a nice moment, and he had two memorable spots -- an Asai moonsault in one of the WGTT matches and his tope against Taijiri during their Smackdown bout -- but none of the matches were great. I was looking forward to the Taijri bouts but they were more fun than good. The best bout was probably the match against Lesnar since it was an interesting cat vs. mouse narrative, but overall a down year

 

I actually love the Tajiri and Hardy title switches. I liked Tajiri working over Rey's ribs a lot. I love the Brock match too. It's a great big man vs. little man match. There's also an A-Train sprint that's about three minutes that's one of the better three or four minute matches I've seen. The Angle match from SD is very good, but not quite as good as I remembered it.

[Benbeeach]

What is the argument against Rey as a top 25 guy from the "not as high on him" crowd?

[Exposer]

I agree with OJ on the terminology there. That's how I always rank matches. That's basically the format I have in place of star ratings.

 

On a more relevant note, I've watched 50 Rey singles matches against 50 different opponents in the last few weeks. I'll post my reviews soon, but he's shown he can work well with a number of differnt opponents. The standout matches I watched were the Tajiri match from Sep 03, the Brock match from Dec 03, the Noble match from Velocity 04, the Finlay match from Nov 07, the Bourne match from Oct 08, the second Henry match from Jan 06, the Bastista match from Dec 09, the Swagger 2/3 Falls from July 10, an MVP match from Nov 07, and a Kidman match from Mar 99. I also want to point out that he had a great TV match with Mr. Kennedy of all people in Nov 07 the same month of the great Finlay and MVP matches. I also saw the Psicosis match from Bash at the Beach 96 which I think isn't as good this time around, but still a great showcase, a really good Del Rio match from 10, and a

 

Rey's an elite seller for sure. One of the greatest ever at it. In a number of the matches I watched he was able to build sympathy and liven up a crowd when at first they were disinterested or not that invested in the match. He has great offense and has an uncanny ability to find smart and creative ways to get on offense. Rey's always got a gameplan, if not he's thinking during the match to find ways to not only survive but to win. He's a tremendous wrestler and certainly still a top 10 candidate in my book.

[ohtani's jacket]

For the record, I didn't watch the 9/25 Mysterio vs. Tajiri match. That's definitely the best of the three matches they had around that time, though the circumstances surrounding the finish kind of reduce it to another chapter in their feud rather than a stand alone good-to-great match.

[shoe]

Moved all the talk not doing with Rey out of the thread.

[Exposer]

For the record, I didn't watch the 9/25 Mysterio vs. Tajiri match. That's definitely the best of the three matches they had around that time, though the circumstances surrounding the finish kind of reduce it to another chapter in their feud rather than a stand alone good-to-great match.

I believe it was 9/25 I watched. There's an unnecessary ref bump that did detract from it I thought. I still thought it was a great match.

[Shining Wiz]

What is the argument against Rey as a top 25 guy from the "not as high on him" crowd?

 

The horrible way WWE booked him leaves a bad default memory for me. Also, I never enjoyed roided up Rey as much as I did smaller athletic Rey. He's someone I'll have to go back and review, but at first glance I'd have him way down my list.

[Benbeeach]

 

What is the argument against Rey as a top 25 guy from the "not as high on him" crowd?

The horrible way WWE booked him leaves a bad default memory for me. Also, I never enjoyed roided up Rey as much as I did smaller athletic Rey. He's someone I'll have to go back and review, but at first glance I'd have him way down my list.

 

From 02 to 2010 it didn't matter if he was curtain jerking or world champion (that's quite the variance) he was having quality matches night in and night out for years. It almost . . . how do I put this, isn't something you can review so to speak? 10 matches off a youtube from various years, isn't going to put the output and consistency into the proper context. But in short of a time machine, not sure what else there is to go off of sometimes.

 

He's the best TV wrestler ever.

[MJH]

Whilst I agree with Rey's consistency as a TV worker, there's a number of very valid criticisms of the WWE style that could quite easily knock Rey out of a Top 25. 50? You'd probably need more to your case, but 25 isn't that many people.