Rey Mysterio Jr.

[Grimmas]

Whilst I agree with Rey's consistency as a TV worker, there's a number of very valid criticisms of the WWE style that could quite easily knock Rey out of a Top 25. 50? You'd probably need more to your case, but 25 isn't that many people.

What are the very valid criticisms that can be applied to Rey working in the WWE?

[El-P]

619

[Grimmas]

619

What is wrong with the 619?

[ohtani's jacket]

I actually find the set-up for the 619 is pretty good most of the time. It only looks bad when the opponent doesn't fall into the ropes well. Of course, you've got to ignore the fact it happens in every match, but that's not hard to do.

[Matt D]

I thought i was going to hate the 619 when I started watching back again in 2009, but what really impressed me was that guys didn't just haphazardly fall into it. Nine times out of ten, Rey strategically placed them into it in ways that worked really well in the match.

[Loss]

 

619

What is wrong with the 619?

 

 

It requires wrestlers to get into an unnatural position to take the move, similar to the Stinkface. If I was booking, I'd probably ask wrestlers in non-Rey matches to occasionally sell sitting on the ropes like that to get it over as a somewhat natural position to be in. I love Rey, but I do think the transitions to the 619 were usually not done very well.

[funkdoc]

i'm surprised people here aren't aware of the 619 hate. that's the most common reason internet fans can't stand rey - well, probably alongside general heel fandom.

[El-P]

It's a cutesy spot that require ridiculous, awkward setups. Offensively it looks like shit (and guys taking huge bumps off of it look totally stupid), and the fact it happens in *every fucking Rey match* makes it unbearable to me. And lastly, the fact there's a "strategy" in each match to put the guys in that spot looks like a freaking wink-wink running gag at best (since the spot itself is so ridiculous to begin with) or makes Rey looks like a complete Copyrighted cartoon character who's only concerned about hitting *that* spot because it's the WWE ™ Rey Myserio ™ spot. So yeah, Rey's WWE matches annoy the fuck out of me for this reason (not to mention other pet peeves like bumping on the second rope which make him look like a midget). Sure, Rey's great, but WWE made him annoying to watch to me.

[El-P]

Of course, you've got to ignore the face it happens in every match, but that's not hard to do.

 

Yes it is. If it happened once in a while, it wouldn't bother me. It would be a cute goofy spot that happened because of a particular setting. Ok. But the fact it became DA Rey Jr. Spot just makes it totally ridiculous to me.

[BigBadMick]

I've been going through some WWE 09-10 lately and haven't found the 619 offensive at all. I think it definitely could be in lesser hands - it's a credit to Rey that it works.

 

Also, does his Elimination Chamber performance in 09 get much appreciation? I hadn't heard much talk about it and my God he was phenomenal.

[Grimmas]

I have no issues with the 619 set up. It's not like guys are just falling into position, Rey is purposefully putting people into that position.

[El-P]

It's not like guys are just falling into position, Rey is purposefully putting people into that position.

 

That's the detail that actually makes it even more annoying to me. Because that stupid cutesy spot becomes the focus of Rey's matches. Can't stand it.

[ohtani's jacket]

The 619 takes up about 5 seconds of a Rey match. It's usually the set-up for the West Coast Pop. I don't see how it's the focal point of his matches.

[MJH]

The 619 doesn't annoy me, per se, it is what it is, but it can certainly be seen as a flaw in the WWE style that spots have to be set-up so obviously for the fans to recognise what's coming. There's no reason he couldn't do the move as a heel is using the ropes to climb to his feet, say (the timing would be trickier because Rey needs the guy's weight on the ropes to tighten them and make the spin, if not possible, then certainly easier) - I'm sure the fans would still recognise what's coming. You could say the same for Booker's axe kick for instance, where the guy'd stay hunched over waiting for the spot in an unnatural position rather than have Booker hit the move as the guy's climbing up off his belly and Booker catches them as they're hunched over about to arch up vertical. Yes, Rey "puts them in position", but nobody ever bumps a headscissors/hurricanrana in that way except to occasionally bump out of the ring.

 

And then there's the other WWE stylistic issues such as sequenced shines/comebacks/etc. Rey mixes his up more than Cena or Bryan or anyone really, but there's still that sense of the matches being programmed that would only be exacerbated by watching the product week-in-week-out to realise Rey's consistency (which is a point I very much agree with). I don't wish to harp on about it too much - Rey's great, he really is - but 25 is not a high number of guys at all to use issues with the modern WWE style as a means to keep Rey out of.

[Grimmas]

I don't see how setting up a move is a flaw to a wrestling style at all.

 

Does anyone complain in Stone Cold matches that he kicks someone in the gut? Does anyone complain about Ric Flair or Bret Hart working the legs to set up submissions? Is there anything wrong with Hulk Hogan's comeback? What about Lawler dropping the strap? Rey in WCW used to do a hand twirl before the springboard hurrancanrana.

The only one that really stinks is Edge's set up to the spear.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

It's not that he's setting up a move, it's that the set-up is so contrived and unnatural. If you kick someone in the gut, the natural reaction is to double over. Working a leg to set up a submission is a totally different beast and has no relevance to this discussion. It's really stretching believability that Rey's opponents are falling into that same position so often. Sometimes it looks okay, but usually it looks stupid to me. As bad as all of Rey's opponents trying to sunset flip him, but I've mentioned that one so many times now, and no-one has ever responded to it, that that's obviously just a personal bugaboo.

[El-P]

Does anyone complain in Stone Cold matches that he kicks someone in the gut? Does anyone complain about Ric Flair or Bret Hart working the legs to set up submissions?

 

The Stunner and the Figure 4 aren't cutesy spots. But yeah, Austin's set up got pretty lazy at points and sometime the kick looked bad. It was still just a kick to the gut before a simple jawbreaker, not an elaborate way to have your opponent rest on the second rope while you're running to the opposite side and come back to throw yourself onto the ropes and do a Tiger Mask trickery spot so your knee/side of your leg/feet/whatever gets more or less rammed on the upper cranium of the opponent who then had to take an illogical bump backward to sell the impact which otherwise would look pretty inoffensive. That's the difference. Do I need to explain why damaging the leg before applying a submission hold that works on the leg makes sense ?

 

Is there anything wrong with Hulk Hogan's comeback? What about Lawler dropping the strap?

 

Hulk Hogan's comebacks suck. So do Lawler's when he's hulking up. Hulking up fucking sucks in general.

 

Dropping the straps has nothing to do with physically setting up a spot, it's just a visual gimmick that indicates "now I'm pissed, shit's on".

[El-P]

You could say the same for Booker's axe kick for instance, where the guy'd stay hunched over waiting for the spot in an unnatural position rather than have Booker hit the move as the guy's climbing up off his belly and Booker catches them as they're hunched over about to arch up vertical.

 

This has more to do with Booker T being a mediocre at best worker though, as he was already doing that shit in WCW. It did get worse in WWE from what I've seen.

[Grimmas]

So, does Rey purposefully throwing someone onto the bottom rope to set up a move harm his matches in any way?

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

If it looks stupid, yes, a little bit.

[Matt D]

Honestly, his inventiveness in making it seem fresh and interesting and NOT contrived over a large number of weekly matches is a pro more than a con to me.

[NintendoLogic]

The biggest problem with the 619 is that it just isn't believable that a headscissors or a drop toehold would incapacitate Rey's opponent long enough for him to land it.

[Childs]

The 619 debate reached a stalemate long ago. Either it bugs you aesthetically or it doesn't.

[ohtani's jacket]

To me it's nowhere near as bad as the Five Knuckle Shuffle, the People's Elbiw, the Worm or the Stinkface as he doesn't have to stop to signal if. As a move, it's better than the Bronco buster.

[El-P]

The People's Elbow I hated for the longest time. Then when I warmed up to the Rock I just got used to it. It's ridiculous, but it's inherent to the character of the Rock. And the execution is super cool and fluid, reminds me of Muto's elbow drop.

The Fivewhavere is like a degenerated version of the People's Elbow. But Cena is kind of a degenerated version of The Rock, so… But yeah, awful.

The Stinkface is totally offensive.

The Worm may be the stupidest move ever. Can't stand it.

 

The Bronco buster I always liked although X-Pac version was the best by far because of the series of kicks which were just a perfect (and simple, and logical) setup, and the move looked like it actually hurt and was humiliating at the same time.