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#301 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 04:53 PM

I don't see any evidence to support the thesis.


Well, the evidence would be the four different things he does from the spot.

Intention has no bearing either [/Barthes]

#302 Loss

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 05:01 PM

I think there's a gap between Flair's ability to think on his feet and his ability to explain that in words. It doesn't mean there was no thought put into how he worked as much as it means he's just not very good at explaining it because to him, wrestling was instinctive.

 

It's why Bobby Eaton was a great worker and a bad trainer. He couldn't explain why he did what he did. He just knew what to do.

 

Shoot interviews are bumpy terrain in my view, because some are better at showing than telling. And telling really isn't part of the job description of being a complete pro wrestler.



#303 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 05:23 PM

Intentionality is a slippery slope. Analyse the work, not the man.

I also wonder -- and this is just wondering aloud -- if the "working smart" stuff is a lot of Johnny logic.

I am not specifically having a go at Matt or Steven, but the concept still feels nebulous and fuzzy to me and I like clarity. That stuff I mused on about the Flair flip is just a test case.

#304 Matt D

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 05:32 PM

No one touched my last explanation. I understand that Harley Race pile drivers are distracting but I'm not going down that road again while that is stil there.

I'd much prefer Johnny logic'ing Parv and Flair drinking together and talking about Shakespeare.

#305 AstroBoy

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:00 PM

Would it be wrong to compare the Flair Flip to the 619 in some ways?  Both signature spots that can be annoying to some viewers, but spots when used to their full effect that can either be applied creatively (619) or can lead to different possibilities coming out of them (the flip). 



#306 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:22 PM

Would it be wrong to compare the Flair Flip to the 619 in some ways?  Both signature spots that can be annoying to some viewers, but spots when used to their full effect that can either be applied creatively (619) or can lead to different possibilities coming out of them (the flip).


I'm not sure I'd lean on the options argument if I wanted to defend it, that was really something I just pulled out of my arse bored during a Terry Taylor match (but being Flair, he then went on to have a 4.75 with Taylor in the next one, so y'know).

My main defence would be to look instead had how much MOTION Flair creates in his matches -- Flair flip is just one such way. This is the biggest thing that stands out if you move from watching 70s footage to watching Flair. Where your 70s match might have a bit of rope running or a few throws, for the best part, the guys are static in the middle of the ring. This is even more marked if you go back and watch a 1950s match. They just stay in one area for most of the time. Flair, though, he's here, there, everywhere, up on the turnbuckle, outside the ring, over on the other turnbuckle, there's just so much damn movement. And if the aim of a wrestling match is to keep the audience engaged and from getting bored, that's what he's doing. It's not just a cheap pop, it's keeping you awake and engaged.

And if we really want to talk about Flair's intentions and Flair the man and what he says in shoots, he's consistently been down on guys like Johnny Valentine or Dory Funk Jr for just laying in headlocks. Flair believed in action. He was an all-action all-the-time wrestler. And the Flair flip is just part of that "all-action" effect his matches have.

#307 Dylan Waco

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:47 PM

At this point I'm literally unsure of what Parv's original point was. 



#308 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 07:15 PM

At this point I'm literally unsure of what Parv's original point was.


I don't know if I had one beyond pointing out that the flip does give him different options.

#309 Childs

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 07:21 PM

If Flair finishes top three (top five?) do we get to stop talking about him for the next 10 years?

#310 shoe

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 07:37 PM

If Flair doesn't finish top 8 I blame Parv.

#311 Microstatistics

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:05 PM

 

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton (07/05/86)

 

Every bit of information I've found about this match on the almighty internet had led me to believe this is the match in question. If that is indeed correct well.......I didn't care much for it. I found it amusing that they used "exposing Flair's ass" as a highspot. There was a spot where Morton went for an O'Connor Roll but Flair hung on to the ropes after which O'Connor did a backward somersault. It's a spot we've all seen about a million times. Here Morton sold it like it was an actual bump which looked incredibly stupid and a lazy means of transition. A lot of mediocre brawling. I liked Morton's Hiptoss/Dropkick combo. **1/2

 

The match you linked is not it. This is the match in question. 

 

After a rewatch, I think the GAB Morton cage match is easily his best non-Steamboat match with maybe his best performance. I honestly feel he was better in brawl/hard-hitting style type stuff than in his more traditional title defenses.






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