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#21 elliott

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:42 PM

Have you seen the Pirata Morgan/Satanico hair match from AAA? It's a real hidden classic. Also check out the trios Matt D recommended to me the other day -- Satanico/La Parka/Psicosis vs. Santo/Azteca/Super Muneco. His AAA work is disappointing, but he was the complete opposite from a Pena style worker so it's not surprising. 

 

I haven't watched the Pirata match yet. I'm kind of saving it because I have really high expectations for that and I want to watch as many trios matches as I can before jumping into the singles matches.  Pirata is another guy I want to watch as much as I can though. I watched the two matches Matt linked earlier and will definitely add that 6 man against Santo, Azteca and Super Muneco to my list of stuff to watch.

 

I'm pretty much going into the AAA trios matches expecting to be disappointed honestly. What I'm really hoping to find are trios matches where he is the focal point of his team and if not I'm at least looking for sequences with other guys where he can come in and shine. Even if the matches aren't built around him, I have hopes that he'll still look good.

 

I'm interested in the Lizmark matches from 92 and 93 as well. Excluding the El Dandy matches from 90 and 91, what other singles matches should I look out for?

 

I also agree with Matt about the Satanico/Parka/Psicosis team. There's a ton of potential there. Matt, you should watch that Infierno en el Ring match too. :)



#22 elliott

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:37 PM

Watched the Satanico/Psicosis/La Parka vs Santo/Angel Azteca/Super Mueco trios match Matt and OJ suggested I watch.

 

Spoiler

 

This was so entertaining. The exact kind of trios match from AAA I'm hoping to come across. Satanico gets some time to work with each of the technicos and in the rudo dominated 2nd fall, he directs traffic. Making sure Parka and Psicosis are double teaming each technico. The first fall was more straightforward with really nice technico dominated chain wrestling. La Parka is so good in this too bringing the comedy one minute and then trying to pick a fight with a fan the next. 3rd fall has some shennanigans with Tirantes eating a few spots and Parka and Azteca actually end up wearing each other's masks. Satanico looked really good here. It would be easy for him to disappear next to guys like Psicosis and La Parka who are such exciting, dynamic, "look at me!" workers. But he brings a lot of the structure here as the elder statesman of the team. Very very fun match. Good find, guys.

 

Also watched Satanico/La Parka/Jerry Estrada vs Lizmark/Octagon/Mascara Sagrada from 6/4//93

 

This had some really enjoyable moments but fell short of being great. The Lizmark/Estrada pairing was very good. I don't have any sort of opinion on Mascara Sagrada. He hit a really nice tope in this, at one point after the crotch shot when he was laying motionless on the ring I thought he looked like a mannequin, and I know his mini is awesome. Other than that, no clue. I thought Satanico worked really well putting over Octagon and Sagrada. After the technico dominated 1st fall, Satanico decides he needs to make something happen; so he takes that stupid tassel of Octagon's and ties it to the top rope to beat on him. Then later, he takes Octagon's belt and tries to hang him from the top rope. One of the refs tries to stop him so Satanico just ties him to the rope as well which was phenomenal. Finish was pretty spectacular when Octagon is going for a tope in the ring and Satanico just snatches his mask off in mid air. This was yet another good performance from Satanico. It looks like there's a rematch the following week that I will watch here soon.



#23 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:17 PM

Octagon had a pretty average mano a mano bout with Satanico in '91. Not as bad as his title matches against Blue Panther but not a patch on the first match against Fuerza.

You should check out the Jerry Estrada/Satanico hair match from 1990. I thought Estrada ruined it, but you might get something out of Satanico's performance.

Satanico vs. Perro Aguayo from 1994 is disappointing given who it is, but you should probably check it out as well. And the Infernales/Dinamitas feud if you can find it.

#24 Matt D

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:19 PM

 

I also agree with Matt about the Satanico/Parka/Psicosis team. There's a ton of potential there. Matt, you should watch that Infierno en el Ring match too. :)

 

 

I am going to make sure to watch pretty much every match in this note, that included. Glad you liked the AAA trios. I went nuts for the masks reversal.



#25 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:37 PM

Most of the AAA I suggested got taken down. Sorry.

#26 elliott

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:59 PM

Most of the AAA I suggested got taken down. Sorry.

 

Dang, no worries. The Estrada match is online. I know I've read before that you didn't like it and blamed Estrada, but I'm still intrigued by that to see what Estrada does and what Satanico does with an opponent having a crappy performance. There's a Satanico vs Estrada vs Pirata match from 93 that I'm going to watch as well.

 

Looking at the yearbook threads, I know you're down on the Lizmark matches as well but they are still long Satanico singles matches, so I'm cautiously excited.

 

Maybe the Perro vs Satanico match from 94 will resurface one day. That would have been a dream match for me circa 1985. 

 

Even with all the gaps in footage and no footage before 83, there is actually a good deal of Satanico out there from a long period of time where he's playing multiple roles. Plus I haven't even gotten to the truly great stuff. 

 

Thanks for all the recommendations and guidance!



#27 elliott

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:08 PM

 

 

I also agree with Matt about the Satanico/Parka/Psicosis team. There's a ton of potential there. Matt, you should watch that Infierno en el Ring match too. :)

 

 

I am going to make sure to watch pretty much every match in this note, that included. Glad you liked the AAA trios. I went nuts for the masks reversal.

 

 

 

That was so great. I also loved the spot where Santo leaps up on Psicosis' shoulders as though he's going to go for a victory roll, Satanico charges to break it up and so Santo hits Satanico with a sunset flip from a seated position off of Psicosis. Really neat spot that looked really fluid in spite of some obvious trainwreck potential.

 

The finish of that last match I watched when Satanico rips the mask off of a flying Octagon is really awesome. Incredible timing to pull it off.



#28 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:32 PM

I would avoid that Satanico/Jerry Estrada/Pirata Morgan stuff at all costs. The Pirata Morgan vs. Estrada mano a mano match is one of the single worst things I've seen from AAA. 



#29 Gregor

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:26 PM

Estrada vs. Morgan was designed to get heat on the seconds. It's not that surprising that the match wasn't good. In the three-way, Estrada escapes fairly early, and the Satanico vs. Morgan portion is kind of a preview of their hair match. It's nowhere near as bad as that mano a mano.

 

On a broader Satanico note, I don't really like his tecnico run that much. The tag match with Dandy against the Infernales is awesome, but the apuestas match later that year isn't anything special, and I wasn't a fan of him in all of those tecnicos vs. tecnicos trios matches in 1990. Those matches are all about one-on-one exchanges, and his generally disappointed me. Yeah, he was a 40-year-old in a workrate match, but I don't recall any killer mat exchanges from him, either - just an endless series of armbar takedowns. Chavo Guerrero was a lot better in the same role earlier that year.



#30 elliott

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:50 PM

Satanico/Estrada/Parka vs Lizmark/Octagon/Mascara Sagrada 6/11/93

Spoiler

 

I was really digging this match and then there's just an out of nowhere low blow finish really quickly into the third fall. After being dominated in the first fall in the prior match, the rudo's jump the technico's to start this and we get some really intense brawling. Eventually the technico's fight back and the first fall is really spectacular. Satanico vs Octagon is the focal point of this match and it is great. Satanico eats all of Octagon's spots beautifully in the first fall. Everything looks great. 2nd fall, Satanico has had enough of this shit and he brings the pain to Octagon. He's dragging Octagon around by that tassle, tying him up in the ropes and punching him in the face. The ref tries to untie Octagon so Satanico slaps his hand a few times. Eventually Octagon is freed but Satanico just continues to drag him around beating the crap out of him. 3rd fall was going well and then boom it's over. That was frustrating but this was the sort of trios match I was hoping to find. Satanico gets a lot of time with a limited but flashy worker and makes him look great and when the time comes to take over, Satanico is tremendous dominating his weakened opponent. La Parka was also terrific in this. Even in a limited role he can't help but shine. Also wanted to say the crowd is going crazy this whole match. Definite recommendation.

 

 

Man, talk about a rudo dream team I found Satanico/La Park/Fuerza Guerrera vs Lizmark/Mascara Sagrada/Volador 2/15/94

Spoiler

 

 

The opening segment with Satanico vs Lizmark was very interesting. They were working holds but really struggling and and working slowly (not at all in a bad way) for reversals. Not something you see a whole lot of in lucha. Especially not the very beginning of the match. Next time they meet in the first fall they're back to running the ropes working really fast and thats also good. There's a point where Satanico fakes getting hit in the nuts, then La Parka comes in and does the same and then Fuerza comes in and I'm just waiting for him to take a backdrop and point to his groin or something but it never happens. I feel robbed. Fuerza and La Parka interacting with each other as teammates is a wonderful thing though so I don't feel too robbed. Satanico is very good again here but I think Parka and Fuerza were pretty clearly the more interesting workers in this. If someone wants to go through all of the La Parka trios matches like I'm doing for Satanico, this would be a great example of La Parka looking like a great worker in 1994.



#31 elliott

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:42 PM

I've put together a list of Satanico matches on youtube excluding the one's already linked to and talked about in this thread. I figure it'll make things easier for me as I go through this. It is around 60+matches. It is possible there are more matches out there but if so, they're hard to find. If anyone wants to go on a Satanico watching binge let me know and I will forward the list to them.

 

I know there are more Satanico matches out there, especially from the 80s. I can't find complete footage of the 80s matches against Atlantis, Lizmark, Koshinaka, and Super Astro on youtube. There are also some trios missing that made the 80s set. There are long singles matches and obviously a ton of trios matches. Most of these videos look like they're 20+minutes. So I've got some Satanico to watch.



#32 elliott

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 06:11 PM

Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr, Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas, Mr Niebla, Shocker

Spoiler

 

Short match but pretty fun. This is really about Santo vs Casas so it is good. Satanico probably works less than 4 minutes total in this match. He does look good as a base for Niebla and Shocker to work flashy spots around. He's mostly a background player in this match until the end when he and Emilio Charles turn on each other and start brawling while Santo gets tripled teamed. The Satanico/Charles brawling part was probably the most fun part of the match. Santo and Casas had a pretty awkward moment at the end of the first fall believe it or not.

 

Satanico, Bestia Salvaje, Scorpio Jr vs Lizmark, Brazo de Oro, Felino 10/11/97

Spoiler

 

Another short match. Not really good or memorable honestly. Unless you want to watch Bestia Salvaje spent an entire match trying to bite off Lizmark's nipple, I would avoid this.

 

Satanico vs Satoru Sayama 10/10/97

 

This was so much better than I expected it to be. Satanico does a great job selling all of Sayama's flashy kicks. He has a nice section where he cheats to dominate Sayama early on (even hitting his awesome apron to the floor senton on Sayama) before the inevitable Sayama shrug off and no sell. Even after that, Satanico does such a good job of selling Sayama's offense and getting in a few hope spots here and there that this is a fun watch. This  is another short match, like 6 or 7 minutes and it is not great. But it was so much better than I figured it would be considering it is a Sayama match.



#33 elliott

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr, Kamala vs Atlantis, El Dandy, Rayo de Jalisco Jr 8/3/91

Spoiler

 

This was a total blast. Satanico and El Dandy brawl all over and bring the hate. Atlantis looks tremendous in this working with both Satanico and Emilio Charles Jr. Oh and there's freaking Kamala! This is so much fun to see the Kamala interactions with everyone on the technico team but especially El Dandy. Satanico looked awesome in this and the match was really good.

 

Satanico, Canek, Atlantis vs Mephisto, Averno, Dr Wagner Jr 5/28/04

Spoiler

 

Another really short match. This had a really hot crowd. Canek actually worked a lot of the match. He looked like a freaking zombie whenever he was about to bump or run and then he hit a flying cross body off the top. Go figure. This is ok for what it is. Satanico still bumps around and moves well. He hits his awesome senton off the apron to the floor in this in what was probably the highlight of the match. Half of the video is this match the other half is Vampiro vs Perro Aguyao Jr which I didn't watch because I was pissed. I wanted 10 more minutes of this match. It was pretty fun while it lasted.

 

Satanico, Black Warrior, Villiano III vs Tinieblas Jr, Felino, Negro Casas

 

I thought this was ok. Kind of boring and not really grabbing me early on but by the end it had picked up and became an enjoyable match. Satanico was mostly paired up with Tinieblas Jr who looks like an alien in this because he's so tall compared to everyone. And because he might be an alien. I thought Satanico did a good job with Tinieblas but Casas was the star of the match. Not super memorable but worth watching.



#34 elliott

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:00 PM

Satanico, Negro Casas, Felino vs Averno, Mephisto, Super Crazy 2004

 

Spoiler

 

Really short brawling sprint. Ok match. Satanico gets jumped before Felino or Casas make it down but this is really too short to have any real drama. Satanico looks perfectly fine in this. If anyone stood out I would say it was Casas. His running boot to the face is one of my favorite moves in wrestling. Felino is led to the ring by a midget wearing basically a blue chewbacca outfit. So that is something.

 

Satanico, MS-1, Pirata Morgan vs Los Hermanos Dinamita 7/9/93

Spoiler

 

This was about 20 minutes so it had plenty of time to develop. I liked this match a whole lot. Rudos vs Rudos in a brawling match is definitely speaking my language and these 6 kick the crap out of each other. Most guys bleed which is what you want from a bunch of shit kicking rudos. Cien Caras looked great for his team and Satanico proved to be king of the rudos by taking this match with a low blow. Really fun brawl with a hot crowd. Definitely worth watching.



#35 elliott

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:37 PM

Satanico, Negro Casas, Emilio Charles Jr vs Hijo del Santo, Ultimo Dragon, Corazon de Leon

Spoiler

 

This was a really good match. Satanico was matched up with Jericho early on and it did not look good. Jericho appeared to get lost and blew a few spots. After that it picked up though. Jericho recovered and hit a bunch of flashy spots and posed a lot. When Satanico was matched up with Ultimo Dragon they had a breathtaking exchange. This match was all about Santo vs Casas so it is worth watching. Satanico has a very good performance in this match. Allowing it to be about Santo vs Casas but still doing little things to add to their story like running in to attack Santo any time he gets an advantage so Casas can continue brutally kicking him in the face. Seriously Casas throws some fucking nasty kicks to Santo's face/head. Really brutal match. Definitely worth watching for Santo/Casas and for a very nice supporing performance from Satanico.

 

Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr, Rey Bucanero vs Dr Wagner Jr, Black Warrior, Apolo Dantes

Spoiler

 

This was a one fall match that was pretty much a workrate sprint. Satanico is easily the star of the match. He pairs up with Dr Wagner Jr and they have a very good opening mat work exchange. It isn't Blue Panther vs Santo level but very good and fluid. When the match picks up Satanico cuts a fast pace and really dominates Wagner Jr. Satanico hits his senton off the apron which is one of my favorite spots. Not as good overall as the previous match but Satanico takes a bigger role in this one.



#36 elliott

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:30 PM

Satanico, Pirata Morgan, MS-1 vs El Dandy, Konnan, Octagon 11/15/91

Spoiler

 

One fall match that is a total blast even with Konnan and Octagon involved. Rudo's dominate the first portion of the match. The Infernales do a lot of really fun double/triple team spots with Satanico doing a lot of directing the action. All of the Infernales looked great in this match. Satanico is great cutting off technico hope spots and slowing the match down for bits before picking it back up. Once the technicos take over, the pace quickens and the Infernales are incredible working as bases for the flashy technicos. I think Satanico works extremely well with Octagon here. The audio sucks on this video but you can tell the crowd is going crazy. Really fun match. I shouldn't be so surprised when 4 out of the 6 guys are really great workers.

 

Satanico and Emilio Charles Jr vs Universo 2000 and Mr Niebla

Spoiler

 

Probably the least of the matches I've watched. Not really bad, just kinda "meh." This is a one fall 8 minute match as part of a tournament. I don't know the date(s) or any other participants though. Hooray random matches. Satanico looked the best of anyone in the match. He worked some pretty nice exchanges with Mr Niebla, but really this isn't much of anything.



#37 elliott

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:47 PM

Satanico, Kamala, Pierroth Jr vs Ringo Mendoza, Black Magic, and Rayo de Jalisco Jr 3/24/91

Spoiler

 

Another short match here. Kamala in CMLL is so much fun, but this isn't at the level of the last Kamala match I watched. Still a lot of fun. Satanico matches up with Ringo Mendoza and they are the highlight of the match from a work perspective. I really wish there was a singles title match between those two floating around out there. Ringo is a guy who has impressed me everytime I've watched him. Really nice back and forth spots between those two. Before I started this match I had totally forgotten that Black Magic was Norman Smiley so that definitely adds some joy to this. He and Pierroth build really nicely to Norman's german suplex. Everytime Norman would get a rear waist lock, Pierroth would bail so when Norman finally hit the german, you knew it would end the first fall. Enjoyable match with Satanico looking really good as usual.

 

Satanico, Espectro Jr, Ice Killer vs Hijo del Santo, Angel Azteca, Super Muneco 1/8/94

Spoiler

 

Ive never seen or heard of Ice Killer so I don't know anything about it. He wears a Jason Mask and carries a hockey stick to the ring which he uses to beat up the technicos. Wayne Gretzky is mentioned on commentary. I hope it was something like "Ice Killer is a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky" or "Ice Killer beat up Wayne Gretzky and took his stick" or "Ice Killer was trained by Wayne Gretzky" or even better "That could be Wayne Gretzky under the mask." I gotta learn Spanish just so I can know. This is a really forgettable match. I would say Espectro Jr probably looked the best of anyone but this was pretty dull. Ice Killer was really the focal point for his team and he didn't look good.

 

El Satanico, Negro Casas, Bestia Salvaje vs El Dandy, Apolo Dantes, Ultimo Dragon 8/14/92

 

Satanico and Salvaje lierally kick El Dandy into submission which is phenomenal. Ultimo spends the entire first fall selling the shit out of his leg and submitting and then sells it a little in the 2nd before blowing it off and going kick crazy. Then later he goes back to selling his leg after hitting Casas with the jumping spin kick. Thats irritating. Negro Casas looks excellent here. Great selling, really explosive work and he is great interacting with the crowd. Satanico and Dandy had some predictably nice moments together. This was good but a slight let down considering it has 3 of my all time favorites in Satanico, Casas, and Dandy.



#38 elliott

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:05 AM

Infernales vs Brazos 11/22/91

Spoiler

 

Really great match. Pretty much everything you would want from a trios title match between two great teams. Great mat work, comedy, big bumps and dives, a super hot crowd etc. Great spots built around Super Porky's size. I'm surprised no one was killed on his tope. Satanico is out of this world great working the mat and selling, but this match is a feather in the cap of all these guys. Great match. Probably the best match I've watched for this project so far.

 

Satanico, Apolo Dantes, Dr. Wagner Jr vs Emilio Charles Jr and The Headhunters

Spoiler

 

Pretty short match. Not exactly good overall but watchable and another good performance with Satanico who has an issue going on with Emilio Charles Jr. They do some intense brawling and when that's not happening, Satanico is leading the charge in setting up the Headhunters for repeated dropkicks, closelines, etc to try and chop down the monsters. Finish really came out of nowhere.

 

Satanico, Pirata Morgan, Mascara Ano 2000 vs El Dandy, Sangre Chicana, El Faraon 11/12/90

 

My only complaint is that this didn't last 40 minutes. This was in the middle of the Satanico/Dandy and Morgan/Faraon feuds so those 4 kick the crap out of each other with El Dandy getting a little bloodied in the first fall. Chicana isn't a featured player in this but  he looks really good. He's probably the best wobbly legged "i just got hit really hard" seller I've ever seen. And he destroys Mascara Ano 2000 with his tope of death. This was under 15 minutes but it was really fun. I should have saved this to watch in context with the rest of the Satanico/Dandy feud, which I'll get to later, but it jumped out at me and I'm glad I watched it. Good stuff from everyone.



#39 elliott

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:00 PM

Satanico, MS-1, Masakre vs Chavo, Eddie, Mando Guerrero 8/23/91

Spoiler

 

This was a good match, but at the same time kind of a let down for my expectations. Not great but definitely a good, basic match. I feel like the US territories experience Chavo and Mando here really shines through the way they isolate Satanico and work over his knee. Nothing they did would be out of place in a Midnights vs Rock n Roll Express match which was pretty interesting in this setting. The Infernales make their comeback working side headlocks but being slightly rougher with their execution of holds than the Guerreros. When I watch Satanico in a match like this I can see him fitting into a US territory in the 80s without skipping a beat. He could really do everything. This was also neat to see Eddie doing a running frog splash that looks exactly like his top rope one later and the Guerrero's actually won this with a frog splash. I guess he did not learn that from Art Barr. :)

 

Satanico, Lizmark, El Faraon vs Cien Caras, La Fiera, Chavo Guerrero 10/27/89 2nd and 3rd falls

Spoiler

 

This made it online in July and has under 175 views which is pretty cool. I've found a few matches that have only popped up in the last 3-4 monthes which I think is pretty cool. What's shown of the match isn't all that good. Satanico is working babyface in this and I will say I think he's good as a technico getting roughed up but can give it back because he's spent his career as a top heel. I would have liked to see the first fall which I assume was a technico dominated fall. The rudo brawling here was pretty aimless and not very interesting. Faraon is a phenomenal puncher.



#40 elliott

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 11:40 PM

Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr, Black Warrior vs Atlantis, Lizmark, El Dandy 3/15/97

Spoiler

 

I loved this. Based on how it is worked it seems Black Warrior and Atlantis are having issues but Satanico is the star of the match. We get a rudo dominated 1st fall with lots of brawling and Satanico leading the way for his team. Then when the technicos make their comeback in the 2nd fall you get some beautiful exchanges between Lizmark and Satanico. El Dandy vs Satanico is always a pleasure and Dandy looks tremendous here. Satanico looks just as fast and crisp in his movements as he did in the 80s. He was 47 years old in this match. Black Warrior takes some crazy bumps. Hot crowd. This was real good.

 

Satanico, MS-1, Pirata Morgan vs Konna, Dos Caras, Atlantis 12/91

 

Holy shit I loved this too! The first fall is terrific as the Infernales dominate and they just bring so much to the table. Brawling, wrestling, flying. There is literally nothing those 3 guys can't do in the ring. Their timing is so good on everything. Really good stuff. Konnan actually blows two armdrags in the 2nd fall and gets booed loudly the 2nd time. The Infernales cover for it well both times, immediately pouncing on Konnan and taking over for a little stretch before letting him take over the firs time. The second time he got out of there pretty quick and didn't come back in for a long time. Which is awesome. Because Atlantis came in and was like "this idiot just blew two arm drags in under 90 seconds, I gotta turn this shit up to 11!" And he just goes crazy. Flying all around the ring looking smooth as fuck and moving at lightening speed. Atlantis actually works a lot of the match for his team but Caras looked good when he was in there. Really good match that I woul strongly recommend in spite of Konnan. Konnan does bring some tremendous hair to the table here so there's that.






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