Jump to content


Photo

El Satanico


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#41 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 14 October 2014 - 01:10 AM

I wanted to jump back to super old man Satanico from the mid-late 2000s because most of the other 90s stuff I have are big singles matches (vs. Pirata, two vs Lizmark, vs Pierroth, vs Kato Kung Lee, vs Estrada, vs Garza) or stuff from 1990 that I'm going to go through in order. So I figured I'd knock out these more recent matches first and see if there's anything that stands out.

 

Satanico, Brazo de Oro, Blue Panther vs Pierroth, Emilio Charles Jr, Misterioso II 6/25/06

Spoiler

 

Satanico is 56 in this match. He works most of the match with Misterioso II who looks really terrible. This is short and not good. Satanico spends most of the first half othe match selling but the beating Misterioso is dishing out is not very interesting. A lot of standing in the corner choking. The crowd wants to see Satanico come back and get revenge and he does some ok spots where he's setting the rudos up for double teams and what not which is nice....but this just isn't very good.

 

Satanico and Malefico vs Blue Panther and Neutron 1/4/09

Spoiler

 

Satanico is 59 here. When I put together a my giant list of Satanico matches this one jumped out at me as an old man Satanico match that I was looking forward to. I have never heard of Malefico or Neutron before let alone seen them, I just figured we would get some good Satanico/Panther stuff. And we certainly did. This starts with those two in the ring taking it to the mat. It's not mindblowingly great stuff but it is really good considering Satanico is 59 years old. Blue Panther has really awesome facial expressions. After they leave the ring Malefico and Neutron come in and do some fast paced stuff and it's entertaining but Satanico finally says "fuck this," trips Neutron, and runs in to attack him from behind. This turns the match into more of a brawl. Satanico has some nice comedy spots; eating a bulldog and claiming foul and taking a plancha from Blue Panther who has been backdropped out of the ring by Malefico. Neutron hits a completely insane moonsault from the top rope to the floor. This isn't a great match but it is a good example of Satanico being able to look good exchanging holds while adding character to the match using his brain. Nice example of old man Satanico.



#42 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:29 PM

Satanico, Nosferatu, Euforia vs Virus, Leono, Valiente 4/28/07

Spoiler

 

Satanico is 57 here. I don't think I've ever seen Virus but I know he's supposed to be great. Never heard of the other 4. I haven't seen much modern lucha and what I have watched has been primarily old dudes. So I don't know if these young guys always work like this but there are some ridiculously dangerous spots and dives in this. This match is basically Nosferatu and Euforia vs Leono and Valiente in a workrate spring doing insane spots while Satanico and Virus add the personality to the match. When they first square off after a fast paced opening segment, Satanico slows the match down, walks over to the corner to talk strategy with the young guys. So Virus hits an armdrag and the two rudos run in and immediately attack him from behind. Satanico leads the double and triple teams as they take each technico out one after another. Satanico works a nice back and forth section with Virus in the third fall where he bumps well, gets back up quickly and is back running the ropes. It's not very long but it is impressive athleticism for a 57 year old man. The video is 23minutes but with the pre and post match as well as brief commercials between falls, this is actually pretty short. But I really enjoyed watching it. This sort of match is probably super easy for Satanico. But it's another one that shows how smart he is.

 

Satanico, Nosferatu, Euforia vs Virus, La Mascara, Mictlan 5/12/07

Spoiler

 

This was more of an angle than a match really. Satanico completely disses Virus. Blows him off. Refuses to lock up or do anything. Whenever Virus gets in the right, the rudo's use bullying and intimidation because of the size difference while refusing to actually fight him. This leads to the La Mascara and Mictlan basically working 2 on 3 and getting double and tripled teamed while Virus stands in the corner. Finally they get fed up and attack Virus who fights back making it 4 on 2. Virus stands their watching as La Mascara and Mictlan are put into really painful looking submissions and lose the match. Rudo's take two straight falls. I actually thought this was pretty good and the way Satanico was blowing off Virus really makes me want to see them have a match.

 

Satanico possesses a pretty lady. 2001

 

Vignette that aired during the Satanico vs Ultimo Guerrero/Rey Bucanero etc feud talked about on the first page. Hysterical.



#43 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 15 October 2014 - 05:04 PM

Satanico, Blue Panther, Hijo del Lizmark vs Averno, Mephisto, Ephesto not sure on the date but If I had to guess I'd 2003-2004.

Spoiler

 

This was pretty forgettable. The work itself wasn't bad but this kind of struck me as a an average TV match. Not much to say about this really. CMLL was using a referee cam in this and what a terrible idea that was. I will add one thing...I used to see Meltzer praise HHH a lot for his "positioning" in the ring and I thought it was just bullshit. But Satanico has great ring positioning. :) He's great at timing his movements and being in just the right place to eat a big spot. He never seems lost and hardly ever misses a beat. Very consistent. This match isn't the best example ever of that but it is something I wanted to mention.

 

Satanico, Marco Corleone, Hijo del Lizmark vs Olipico, Pierroth, Universo 2000 3/4/07

Spoiler

 

Ugh this wasn't good. Mostly built around the rudo's dominating Hijo del Lizmark and Marco Corleone, neither of whom look very impressive. Satanico still throws a really good punch and from watching some other old man Satanico matches, I know he can bring some things to the table but he really doesn't do anything to make this enjoyable. But nobody else did either ;)

 

Satanico, Alan Stone, Angel Azteca vs Averno, Mephisto, Arkangel de la Muerte 2003

 

This was much better than the last two matches. Short brawling match. Satanico's team is attacked before the bell and Satanico is actually beat down and laid out on the way to the ring. So when he finally makes his comeback the crowd is going nuts. Satanico looks great here selling and making firey comebacks. Too short to be special or great but this is definitely entertaining and worth watching.

 

Satanico, Lizmark Sr, Mictlan vs Emilio Charles Jr, Pierroth, Shiego Okumura 1/14/07

 

I went into this with really low expectations but came out of it thinking it was a really good Satanico performance. This is built around the rudo's dominating using Pierroth's belt. Choking and whipping the technico's until they slowly make a comeback, get the belt and get some payback. Satanico does a great job selling the beating and then returning the favor and has some really great facials in this. Satanico actually wins the match by tricking the ref into thinking Pierroth kicked him in the nuts. This is another good example of Satanico doing a good job structuring and adding to the match using his brain. Lizmark, even as old as he is here, is sooooooooo much better than his kid. I may need to do an Atlantis/Lizmark comparison. This is worth watching and a good Satanico performance.



#44 soup23

soup23
  • Moderators
  • 9887 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 October 2014 - 08:59 PM

I have really appreciated the hard look at late era Satanico you are doiing Elliot.



#45 Phil Schneider

Phil Schneider
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 3383 posts

Posted 15 October 2014 - 10:30 PM

Yeah it is awesome



#46 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 16 October 2014 - 12:25 PM

Thanks soup and Phil! I'll be back later today with more matches :)

#47 Grimmas

Grimmas

    a Wrestling Feminist

  • Members
  • 7725 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Posted 16 October 2014 - 12:27 PM

Thanks soup and Phil! I'll be back later today with more matches :)

It's great. Once I free up some more time I will watch everything posted, since Satanico is someone who has a shot at number one.



#48 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 16 October 2014 - 07:25 PM

 

Thanks soup and Phil! I'll be back later today with more matches :)

It's great. Once I free up some more time I will watch everything posted, since Satanico is someone who has a shot at number one.

 

 

Thanks! It's gong to be 80+ matches by the time I'm done so start carving that time out :) I am starting to run out of post 2000 matches on youtube though. However I just watched....

 

Satanico vs El Dandy 3/2014

Spoiler

 

I thought this was fucking awesome. I've never seen a Lucha match in such a small setting before. The match is basically shot in the ring so you get to see these two legends work up close and personal. The opening mat work is really good. They struggle for each hold and counter and add some nice little touches like Satanico grinding his elbow into Dandy's back and things like that. Eventually, Dandy pushes Satanico's face away to help alleviate the pressure on a hold and that just pisses Satanico off. Dandy does it several times and Satanico slaps his hand away each time. Finally Satanico gets sick of El Dandy touching his face so he lets Dandy up so he can talk shit right to his face. Then Satanico cheap shots him and this turns into punching, stomping, kneeing, etc. They work really tight and the selling from both guys is excellent so with the super close up camera work this feels like a big epic match even though it took place in front of probably less than 150 people. Who are all super into everything these guys do. (Also, it is totally bizarre to me that a lucha crowd WOOOOs at chops). This isn't the best match I've watched so far, but I'm really really glad I found it. Really cool stuff. Satanico is 64 years old in this match.

 

Satanico, Joe Lider, Rey Templario vs Scoria, Fulgor, Mascara Sagrada Jr  6/29/14

Spoiler

 

Oh my god this shit would not end. For as much as I loved the last match I fucking hated this. Similar set up. Really small building, filmed basically in the ring. Not really ideal for a 6 man tag. Satanico spends a lot of time out on the apron and doesn't do anything really impressive when he is in the ring. The other 5 guys I thought looked awful. Either really sloppy and loose or unnecessarily stiff. The worst part of this is that whoever posted the video decided to dub some nu-metal crap over the sound. Take a bad match and then add the worst music ever...(I watched it on mute but would occasionally turn the sound on hoping it would end...it didn't ugggh) and this is a terrible segment. Nobody else make the mistake of watching this. Yikes.

 

This was actually the last post 2000 Satanico match I've been able to find on youtube. If I come across anymore, I will definitely watch them. If anyone else finds anything, please either post it or PM me the link because I want to watch that shit. Everyone should watch that El Dandy match I just watched though. That was really good.



#49 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 16 October 2014 - 09:30 PM

I was poking around youtube trying to see if I could find anything I might have missed or to see if anything new has popped up in the last few days. Sure enough I found something pretty cool that was uploaded on 10/11 and has a grand total of 6 views. And I clicked on the page twice.

 

Spoiler

 

Not a match but hopefully building to a Satanico vs Solar singles match that could be really interesting. Short video starts with Satanico beating up Solar. Then he grabs the mic and cuts a long promo. Then he beats up Solar some more. Then he starts to leave and Solar grabs the mic and talks shit back. Keep your fingers crossed for an old man Satanico vs old man Solar match!



#50 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 17 October 2014 - 12:04 AM

Satanico, Apolo Dantes, Dr Wagner Jr vs Perro Aguayo, Ringo Mendoza, Emilio Charles Jr 2000

Spoiler

 

This must have been clipped because we don't see the finish of the 2nd fall. This is only about 7 1/2 minutes but I loved it. Total brawl. There's an awesome spot in the first fall when the rudo's are dominating the match and put Mendoza and Charles in the tree of woe while Wagner and Perro brawl on the outside. So Satanico and Dantes go out and drag Perro back in the ring and ram him headfirst into the stomach's of Mendoza and Charles. One thing Satanico always does that I really like is when his team has someone set up in the corner and are taking turns running across the ring and clotheslining the guy in the corner, Satanico will stand in front of the guy in the corner until the last second just to make sure he doesn't escape. It's smart and something he did all the time. What we see of this is really good. Satanico mostly works with Ringo Mendoza doing back and forth rope running, arm drags, hip tosses, etc. It looks really good and Satanico can really move for a 50 year old. Has Ringo been nominated yet? This match really was about Perro Aguayo. And he was awesome as the crusty old bad ass. He and Wagner Jr just stiffed the fuck out of each other. Perro bled a little. He even hit a tope. Perro Aguayo is like the lucha Tenryu of 2000. Just an old grumpy bastard who will let you hit him as hard as he can but you better make it count because he's going to hit back twice as hard. I might watch all the Perro matches online when I finish with Satanico. He's not a #1 contender like Satanico, but he's someone I really like and his work got shit on for years and years. He's had some really great matches and I'd like to see if he has more stuff like this out there. It'll be him or Sangre Chicana next for me. Anyway, what's shown of this match is really fun and another great example of Satanico as a 50+year old man looking awesome.

 

Satanico, Hijo de Gladiator, Gran Markus Jr vs Negro Casas, TAKA Michinoku, Super Porky 5/30/97

Spoiler

 

Satanico is only 47 in this match. I wonder if Satanico and Taka had ever worked together before because they were matched up in the first fall and looked good until they flubbed the timing on an armdrag. Satanico did a pretty good job covering for it. When they match up to start the 2nd fall, Satanico slows it down and actually works a test of strength spot with Taka before kneeing him in the gut and taking over with punching. Good spot and smart to slow it down and cut off Taka instead of doing more rope running spots. There's a great comedy spot where Super Porky comes in and Satanico is just slapping the shit out of him and Porky is totally no selling it and then grabs Satanico and gives him a bunch of headbutts driving him across the ring. Satanico's selling is really expressive and comical here and the crowd loves it. There's another great comedy spot with Satanico, Porky and Gladiator where Porky has Gladiator trapped in the corner but Satanico keeps kicking/headbutting Porky in the stomach and every time he does, Porky gives Gladiator a big butt bump and squashes him. Gran Markus Jr joins in and Gladiator is just getting creamed while the crowd is eating it up. Great dive sequence by the technicos that has Porky hitting a tope and Taka hitting one of his typically beautiful springboard dropkicks and then putting Satanico away. Taka celebrates like it is a huge moment. Lots of good stuff in this. Fun match.

 

Satanico vs Ringo Mendoza and Emilio Charles Jr

 

Looks to be about 2001-2003. Not sure what the story behind this but this is basically an exhibition. 5 minutes with Ringo and then 5 minutes with Emilio. The 5 minutes with Emilio is clipped even and we only get about a minute. The RIngo section was good not great maestro mat work. This is perfectly watchable for what it is but nothing memorable.



#51 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 18 October 2014 - 06:45 AM

I keep saying I'm "running out of old man Satanico" and in a way that's not entirely true. When I think of "old man Satanico" I'm mostly thinking of 2001 and on Satanico. Probably because the first time I saw him was in 2001. I've seen all of his work on the 80s Lucha set and the 1990 El Dandy feud, but anything between 1990 and 2001 is new to me and anything post 2003 has also been new. So when I watch him as a 64 year old in 2014, he doesn't seem quite as ancient in 1994. But realistically he is still 44 years old in 1994. Which is old for (most) wrestlers. Since we have nothing before 1983, and the vast majority of Satanico footage comes from post 1990, I figured it might help to look at how old some other relevant wrestlers are compared to Satanico. 

 

Satanico born 10/26/49

Ric Flair 2/25/49 8 months older than Satanico

Yoshiaki Fujiwara 4/27/49 6 months older than Satanico

Bob Backlund 8/14/49 2 months older than Satanico

Stan Hansen 8/29/49 2 months older than Satanico

Lizmark 9/18/94 1 month older than Satanico

Jerry Lawler 11/29/49 1 month younger than Satanico

 

Before moving on, I separated all the 1949 birth years because holy shit 1949 was the best year for pro wrestlers being born ever! If someone had a top 5 with Satanico, Flair, Hansen, Lawler, and Fujiwara, I wouldn't argue it for a second. Anyway here's a group of wrestlers within 5 years age of Satanico

 

Terry Funk 6/30/44 5 years older than Satanico

Perro Aguayo 1/18/46 basically 4 years older than Satanico

Andre the Giant 5/19/46 3 years older than Satanico

Dick Murdoch 8/16/46 3 years older than Satanico

 

I'm actually really surprised at how close Perro and Satanico are in age.

 

Genichiro Tenryu 2/2/50 basically 3 months younger than Satanico

Jumbo Tsuruta 3/25/51 two years younger than Satanico

Greg Valentine 9/20/51 two years younger than Satanico

Sangre Chicana 11/30/51 two years younger than Satanico

Riki Choshu 12/3/51 two years younger than Satanico

Villano III 3/23/52 or 1/21/53 (luchawiki had both) 3 or 4 years younger than Satanico

 

Randy Savage 11/15/52 3 years younger than Satanico

Buddy Rose 11/15/52 3 years younger than Satanico

Best single day for wrestler births ever.

 

Ricky Steamboat 2/28/53 4 years younger than Satanico

Hulk Hogan 8/11/53 4 years younger than Satanico

Tatsumi Fujinami 11/28/53 4 years younger than Satanico

Tully Blanchard 1/22/54 basically 4 years younger than Satanico

Ted Dibiase 1/18/54 basically 4 years younger than Satanico

 

So those are the people I would consider his peers.



#52 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 18 October 2014 - 06:21 PM

Satanico vs Hector Garza 4/25/95

Spoiler

 

Title match. This really did nothing to grab my attention. Back and forth mat work for most of the match and it is really uninteresting to me. Nothing they do is bad exactly, this just seems really average and dull to me. I was hoping this would at least be on the level of the Tarzan Boy match from 2000, but it isn't even all that close. I might comeback to this match later and give it another shot. But this is definitely something people can skip.

 

Satanico, Pirata Morgan, MS-1 vs Atlantis, Lizmark, Mascara Sagrada 3/13/92

 

My one complaint is that this match had to end because if it had lasted for the last 22 years I would still watch it all. So much fun. Great match with everyone looking incredible (Sagrada mostly stayed outside the ring). Rudo's control most of the first fall and a half with brawling triple teaming etc. They take particular pleasure in beating up Lizmark. Satanico always comes across as the leader of the Infernales but it isn't necessarily because he looks way better than the other two. In every match that those 3 guys have together they all look like fantastic workers. They have a real chemistry that puts them in the conversation with any great tag team in history from a working perspective. Atlantis and LIzmark are so smooth when they take over and start hitting their major spots and dives. The crowd is insanely hot for this. Fucking awesome match that everyone should watch asap.



#53 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 18 October 2014 - 07:44 PM

Satanico, Fuerza Guerrera, Emilio Charles vs Kato Kung Lee, Octagon, Atlantis 5/31/91

Spoiler

 

This had some really good moments but overall I think it dragged on a little too long. This could have given 10 minutes to the 3/13/92 match and the world would be a better place. Still, this had some good stuff like I said. I'm not really a fan of the ninja gimmick guys, but Satanico and Fuerza are great bases for Lee and Octagon to do their spinny kicky offense around. This has some good comedy spots which isn't surprising considering Fuerza is in there. The crowd is really hot for this as usual. Worth watching and a good match but just a touch to long I thought.

 

Satanico vs Kato Kung Lee Hair vs Hair luchawiki says 6/21/91

Spoiler

 

Based on some pretty good work together in the previous 6 man, I went from low expectations for this to "maybe it'll be ok" expectations. Awesome spot early on where Satanico has Lee in a wristlock and starts biting his hand. From there this falls off a cliff. The first fall is Satanico dominating with punches, stomps, and chokes. There's a lot of Lee slumped down in the corner and Satanico stepping on his throat or Lee draped over the top rope and Satanico choking him until the ref pulls him off. Finally Lee gets away just long enough to hit Satanico with a 2nd rope tope and a dropkick before rolling Satanico up for the pin. Satanico is pissed and gets in the refs face. Second fall is really more of the same with Satanico mostly dominating with punches and kicks. He turns it up a notch by taking Lee outside the ring and whipping him into the ring post over and over again and we get a little blood. Lee takes a terrible bump for Satanico's bulldog. Lee takes over briefly with some flashy ninja kicks then takes Satanico outside for some face into steel ring post payback. And then the video craps out and goes to black for a solid minute. When it comes back they're still outside and Satanico has taken back over. The video continues to be really shaky but we do get a nice shot of Satanico hitting his awesome apron to the floor senton. Lee hits a superkick then tries the roll-up that he used to be Satanico in the first fall but Satanico kicks out. Lee goes up top for a flying kneedrop but misses it. Satanico punches him twice and then puts an armbar on Lee and Lee submits. Um...ok. Other than that godawful 6 man with Joe Lider, this was probably the worst match I've watched with Satanico. Kato Kung Lee looks really bad in this. Boring work from both guys. Satanico had a pretty easy time controlling this and countering Lee's offense and Lee's selling was really spotty so this lacked the drama of a great hair vs hair match. I do not recommend this unless you want to watch a great worker have a bad match against a bad opponent. So maybe I recommend this to Matt D ;)



#54 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:03 AM

Satanico, La Fiera, Emilio Charles Jr vs El Dandy, Atlantis, Pierroth 11/13/92

Spoiler

 

This is another new upload from 9/17/14 with 150ish views. Everybody should watch it because it fucking rocks. Total brawling match. Satanico isn't on screen much in the rudo dominated first fall. Whenever we see him he's throwing his great punches/kicks or ripping at Pierroth's mask. When we see more of him in the 2nd and 3rd fall he is mostly bumping or brawling with Pierroth. He looks good and I'm excited for the singles match with Pierroth, but this match was about El Dandy vs La Fiera and it was great. FIera attacks Dandy in the back while Dandy is giving an interview and beats him up for Pierroth and Atlantis make the save. It continues in the first fall with Fiera and Dandy brawling all over ringside and in the ring. Dandy's selling is excellent. 2nd fall picks up even more when the technico's take over and Dandy beats the crap out of Fiera. Fiera blades and the crowd is loving it. 3rd fall is more of the same with everyone fighting all over the place. It ends in a DQ after Fiera brings the chain in the ring to try and beat up Dandy but Dandy gets it and hangs Fiera with it over the top rope. El Dandy is in peak form here. Everything he does is great in this. I wanted to also mention how much I love Atlantis. Everyone took a backseat to Dandy/Fiera in this and let the focus be on them. But in the brief moments Atlantis was in there he was just on fire moving so smoothly and quickly. He was a truly spectacular high flyer.

 

Satanico vs Pierroth 1992 or 93

Spoiler

 

This is a title match. I really like the little things Satanico does. When he's pushing Pierroth back into the corner and has his forearm on Pierroth's face, Satanico takes his other hand and pushes on his wrist to get more force behind the forearm he has shoved in Pierroth's face. Or when he has Pierroth on the ground in an armbar, Satanico takes his free hand and shoves it in Pierroth's armpit. It is the type of stuff Regal would do. Also stuff like rocking back and forth on the camel clutch. This is a really tremendous match that I hope everyone watches. The best match Ive watched for this project so far. Fantastic back and forth mat work in the first fall. Second fall has Satanico roughing Pierroth up a little bit trying to take two straight. But of course Pierroth comes back. Third fall is full of great near falls and near submissions. Really dramatic final fall. I wish you could hear the crowd better because they seemed to be really hot. This is an awesome match. If you are a fan of lucha title matches, you will love this match.



#55 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:47 PM

Satanico vs Lizmark 7/17/92

Spoiler

 

This was a really weird match. Definitely disappointing considering who it is. There are parts of it that are really good. The mat work in the first fall is really good. Lizmark hits his stuff really well when it picks up. Satanico is excellent selling and hits two of his awesome 2nd rope sentons.  But this really felt like an extended Lizmark squash. He dominates the majority of the match and escapes/counters Satanico way way to easily throughout this. I typically like Lizmark but I just wasn't into this. This isn't nearly as good as the Pierroth match.

 

Satanico vs Lizmark 9/17/93

Spoiler

 

I have lowered my expectations big time for this based on the last match between the two. This is another title match between the two. First fall is the typical back and forth mat work and like in the previous match, it is very good. Satanico spends a lot more time in control and keeping Lizmark grounded. There is much more of a struggle in applying and countering submissions. Satanico has typically great facial expressions in this. The used the finish of the last match as the finish of the first fall in this one and it works much better than it did there because Satanico hasn't spent the prior 25 minutes getting dominated.  Second fall is more good back and forth mat work with Satanico mostly dominating. I love the fact that he wrestles so cleanly in these title matches. He's such an excellent mat worker. It really gets over the importance of the title matches because he's also such a great brawler and excels as the biggest rudo in the game. His selling in this fall is typically great stuff. Lizmark uses his athleticism to take this second fall. 3rd fall is Lizmark doing any and everything he can to put Satanico away. Suplexes, submissions, roll ups, huge dives, anything. Satanico has some really nice counters into submissions or pinning combos in the 3rd fall for near falls and hits his great 2nd rope senton. But in the end Lizmark's athleticism is too much. This is so so so so much better than the first match because it is so much more even. Satanico mostly controls the match when theyre on the mat and Lizmark uses his superior athleticism to come back. Terrific match. Definitely worth watching.



#56 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 22 October 2014 - 04:47 PM

Satanico vs Jerry Estrada Hair vs Hair 3/23/90

Spoiler

 

Wildly disappointing match. There were some things about this that I did like. Estrada took the insane bumps you would expect from him and did some nice dives. Satanico's selling was excellent as usual. But this felt really flat overall. Especially the first fall. It really lacked the violence and hatred of the great hair matches. I'm not a total vampire, but I do think some blood would have helped this. Satanico seems to realize the match isn't as good as it could be and he turns up the intensity. There's a great spot where they're both on the ground, almost in the guard position and Satanico just dives forward and starts throwing punches and headbutting. Satanico actually hit an awesome tope which really surprised me. In all of these matches I've watched the only "dives" Satanico has done are his 2nd rope senton and his senton from the apron to the floor. He usually gets really good elevation on them and them usually look devastating. But I can't remember ever seeing him dive through the ropes before. 3rd fall picks up and there are some good near falls, but there are some moments I absolutely hated. At one point Estrada is going to the outside to go to the top rope. He collapses before he even reaches the turnbuckle because he's so spent. So he goes up top and goes for an enormous senton but Satanico gets out of the way. Considering Estrada could barely stand 5 seconds before, this should have killed him. But he kicks out at 2. Survives some more punishment, and is soon back going for high risk stuff. I may revisit this later because there are a lot of positive comments about it in the yearbook thread and Loss actually ranked it 18th overall for 1990. This didn't do it for me overall even if I did like pieces of it. Not in the same universe as the Pierroth match or the Lizmark match from 93.

 

Satanico vs Pirata Morgan 11/19/93 Hair vs Hair

Spoiler

 

I love when Satanico punches Pirata in the face and then shakes his hand because he hurt it on Pirata's face. Great spot whenever anyone does it. I also really like when Satanico has Morgan in a backslide and Satanico runs in place to create more leverage and ensure the pinfall. I love that Pirata blades basically immediately. I love that Satanico keeps biting the cut until blood is covering his own face. Seriously he looks like Kathy Bates at the beginning of American Horror Story The Coven. I love Satanico trying to win this quickly and cheaply by claiming foul on a kick that clearly hits him in the chest. I love Satanico putting on an armbar and then punching Morgan in the armpit. I love that when Pirata makes his comeback's in the 2nd fall he's still selling his ass off and getting cut off because he's weakened from the blood loss. I love that Pirata's comebacks are surprise out of nowhere dropkicks coming off rope running spots. Satanico has been able to take back over any time Pirata tries to come back with punches prior to this. I love the figure 4 as a finish. I love that Jake Roberts has a front row seat. I love that Pirata finally gets to do some damage on Satanico and bust him open while brawling in the crowd between the 2nd and 3rd falls. I love when they're both on the ground selling and bleeding and Pirata attempts to put the figure 4 on from his knees. Satanico punches his way free before Pirata can get it on. So Pirata pulls him back up, hits a spinebuster and then reapplies the figure 4 trying to beat Satanico with it again. I love the camera angle and the facial expressions on Satanico as he inches his way toward the ropes. I love that he gets there and Pirata say "fuck this" and scoots back, pulling Satanico from the ropes. I love that Satanico had to drag himself to the ropes a second time before PIrata let him up. I love that Pirata follows this up by using submission after submission which forces Satanico to have to crawl to the ropes or try and break the hold by reversing it or sticking his hand in Pirata's cut/eye socket or slyly fouling Pirata out of sight of the ref (Seriously that low blow was done perfectly for the ref to miss it from 8 inches away). I love that Satanico is now weakened to the point where he can't full capitalize on the foul and can't get Pirata over for a sunset flip. I love that Pirata comes back right back and hits his own sunset flip. I love that in the 3rd fall PIrata is able to cut off all of Satanico's comebacks and Satanico is unable to regain control until Pirata takes too long to climb to the top rope (bc of all the damage he's taken) and misses a huge dive. I love that Pirata had to take that risk because all the submissions and MOVES he's trying still aren't able to put Satanico away so he has to try something desperate. I love that Satanico doesn't immediately take over on offense but slowly drags himself over to Pirata to cover him with one arm Hokuto/Kandori style. I love that both men recover at around the same time but Satanico has just the opening he needs and Pirata is hurt enough from missing the bomb that one ferocious punch is all he needs to take back control. I love that Satanico pretty much immediately gets too cocky and starts pandering to the crowd which gives Pirata the opening to hit an enzugiri. I love that Pirata tries to follow it up with a rana but Satanico plants him with a powerbomb. I love that as they're trading bombs down the stretch they're continuing their tremendous selling. I love Satanico. I love Pirata Morgan. I love this match. This isn't just one of the best Lucha matches ever, it is one of the best matches ever. Loss had this #4 overall in 1993. Only behind Hansen/Kobashi, Hokuto/Kandori, and Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue and ahead of things like Thunderqueen and Hansen/Kawada. That is tremendous company. Everyone should watch this.



#57 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 30 October 2014 - 03:54 PM

I will come back to this thread at some point. This was all the post 1990 Satanico I could find online. I'm in the midst of rewatching the Lucha set and will comment on younger Satanico as well as his 1990 work as I make my way through the lucha set.

 

This was a lot of fun watching old man Satanico. He had some truly great performances from his mid 40s all the way up through the El Dandy singles matches from this year. If you're someone who values the post-peak of a great worker in the context of a GOAT topic, Satanico is someone who you should watch. He ages very well. His athleticism is obviously not what it was in the 80s, but he paces himself and shows great bursts of energy in brawling matches. He also has some terrific performances taking it to the mat. (Someone needs to watch that Pierroth match). I wish more of the feud with Ultimo Guerrero, Bucanero and friends from 2001 is online because from what I was able to rewatch it looks as great as I remembered it being when I watched it 12-13 years ago. The cage match really stands out as a tremendous storytelling match. He is great in trios matches either as the focus of the match or as a background player adding little touches to the match to keep things moving along. Watching the 80s set, I always looked at Satanico as the Jerry Lawler of Mexico. Maybe not the most athletic guy around, but he can still wow you at times with some insane bumps and would actually bring a shit load of stuff to the table. Watching him post 1990 reminded me even more of Lawler. He may have slowed down a bit but he doesn't let that get in the way of his ability to have great matches because he knows more about wrestling and working the crowd than just about anyone. Even before going through all the 80s stuff for a second time, Satanico is pretty comfortably battling Hansen, Flair, and Lawler for my #1 spot.



#58 goc

goc

    A disgrace to Joe Blanchard

  • Members
  • 7352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 30 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

How awesome would a bloody brawl between Satanico and Lawler be?



#59 elliott

elliott
  • Members
  • 1286 posts

Posted 30 October 2014 - 04:12 PM

Lawler vs Satanico, Chicana, Perro, and Mocha Cota are my all time 4 "I wish this had happened and we had it on tape" matches. I could see Lawler and Cota working a match around Cota trying to poke Lawler in the eyes with his mangled hand and Lawler continually blocking it. :)



#60 Childs

Childs
  • Moderators
  • 4392 posts

Posted 30 October 2014 - 05:39 PM

Don't forget Herodes, if the Tony Salazar match is any indication.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users