Brian Pillman

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Reviews & Discussion of Brian Pillman in early '91 when I personally think he was most poised to break out into main event scene: http://ridingspacemountain.blogspot.com/2014/02/wargames-taped-fists-yellow-dogs-brian.html

 

Reviews & Discussion of Brian Pulliman in '95-'96. This covers Surfer Brian right into the Loose Canon into the Respect Match. If he had his health, Pillman could have been a monster heel. Still great AJPW-erffic match with Badd and I am missing the Wright match from GAB of '95. http://ridingspacemountain.blogspot.com/2013/12/loose-canon-chronicles-brian-pillman.html

I hope to complete Pillman's entire WCW career sometime in Q1 of next year.

[Phil Schneider]

I don't see Pillman, he didn't have a particularly long wrong as a great wrestler, had some good charisma, but I can't see an argument for him over someone like Jimmy Jacobs, and Jacobs isn't sniffing my top 100

[Dylan Waco]

Totally disagree with Schneider here which is really rare. I thought Pillman's babyface run from 89-92 was a tremendous run, that was hurt by WCW booking incompetence. Still there are few underdog babyfaces I can think of in modern times who I would rate clearly above Pillman from that stretch. Good in both tags and singles, good against big name stars like Flair/Luger or undercard acts like Norman/Rip Rogers, really great/underrated feud v. Windham, tons of fun matches against randoms like Buddy Landell, Scotty Flamingo, et., the Liger matches which I think hold up well, et, et, et. I don't think he was ever the same after he went heel, though he had good matches at that point too, and even as late as 95 could occasionally blow you away with something massive. He's not going to rate super high for me, but I can't imagine not rating him at all

[cheapshot]

He's someone who I've always liked, but for me to include him I'd like to see more of him in Stampede.

[Goodear]

Pillman always struck me as a guy who did his best character work as a heel but has physically made to be a face. So when I think of his great performances, they are tied to a character that I'm not invested in and when I think about when he was a great character, the matches aren't there. The only time he could really align was in the run with the Hollwood Blondes and he didn't seem to have the heel work down at that point.

[Jetlag]

I remember having my mind blown when I watched his match vs. Windham where they beat the piss out of eachother and bleed all over the place. If he has more stuff like that he will def. have a spot on my Top 100. In the meantime, I'm not too high on his more junioriffic stuff.

[Exposer]

I agree with Dylan. From 89-92 he was incredible. One of the best US tag workers of all time. Had an all-time mid-card feud with Luger, great light heavyweight feud with Liger, and was a highlight in 95 WCW. Should make my bottom 25 or so.

[topropepodcast]

Pillman is someone who would rank far higher on my Favorites list than he will on my Greatest. I want to seek out more of his early work but he's in play for the lower half of my 100.

[Matt D]

I want to rank Pillman. He's the most important wrestler of my youth, but maybe because of that I'm wary and I need to rewatch a lot.

[DR Ackermann]

A lot of 90s juniors stuff doesn't always hold up, but i think his Superbrawl II match with Liger is great and stands the test of time. That's something to really consider. I think the only thing that could keep him off my list is longevity but he has a strong chance of making it.

[JerryvonKramer]

I agree with Dylan. From 89-92 he was incredible. One of the best US tag workers of all time. Had an all-time mid-card feud with Luger, great light heavyweight feud with Liger, and was a highlight in 95 WCW. Should make my bottom 25 or so.

I think "incredible" is really stretching it, and it's not altogether his fault. When he was put in a position to have good matches (e.g. vs. Luger, Flair, Liger), he has good matches, and short of coming out with a sign on his forehead saying "push me", I don't know what else he could have done. But arguably no one was a bigger victim of WCW clusterfuck changes of management and booking teams than Pillman. And for me that hurts his babyface run during the period you're talking about -- and I do agree that he was very good in that role, just completely wasted by the company. It puts him a notch below someone with a comparable great "short peak run" like Rick Rude from roughly the same time frame.

 

That said, I'm a little higher on his heel stuff than your brother and would give him a shot at finishing in the 90-100 range, but Pillman is likely going to be a victim of having to make way for some of the WoS or Lucha guys ... blame Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson or Jim Herd. Take your pick!

[Matt D]

A few years ago, I blamed Watts for gutting the light heavyweight division by instituting the no top rope rule and trying to center it around Brad Armstrong. That probably wasn't fair.

[Exposer]

 

I agree with Dylan. From 89-92 he was incredible. One of the best US tag workers of all time. Had an all-time mid-card feud with Luger, great light heavyweight feud with Liger, and was a highlight in 95 WCW. Should make my bottom 25 or so.

I think "incredible" is really stretching it, and it's not altogether his fault. When he was put in a position to have good matches (e.g. vs. Luger, Flair, Liger), he has good matches, and short of coming out with a sign on his forehead saying "push me", I don't know what else he could have done. But arguably no one was a bigger victim of WCW clusterfuck changes of management and booking teams than Pillman. And for me that hurts his babyface run during the period you're talking about -- and I do agree that he was very good in that role, just completely wasted by the company. It puts him a notch below someone with a comparable great "short peak run" like Rick Rude from roughly the same time frame.

 

That said, I'm a little higher on his heel stuff than your brother and would give him a shot at finishing in the 90-100 range, but Pillman is likely going to be a victim of having to make way for some of the WoS or Lucha guys ... blame Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson or Jim Herd. Take your pick!

 

I agree that he wasn't booked well at all. I really do believe he is overlooked by some because of that. He was a great babyface at his best. I'll also concede that Rude's 92 was probably better than Pillman from any year in 89-92. What hurts Rude is the before and after for me, but I'll save that talk for the Rude thread. I also like his heel run too. I enjoyed his character work at least. As far as using the word incredible, I would use that term more for maybe a few performances from Pillman during that period. I do think he put on a few of those performances during that period such as in War Games 91.

[goodhelmet]

Pullman had good to great matches up though 1995. He was a highlight on those early 1994 shows and was great in the Johnny B Badd matches. I don't know if he ever had a great singles match in wwf but that won't disqualify him from the list yet. For reference sake, I currently have him ahead of Owen Hart by mile.

[shoe]

His poor booking in a weird way might help his case. Because the bookers didn't know what to do with him he never really broke through the glass ceiling. So as a result he got opportunities on the t.v shows to have matches with a variety of opponents.He's a guy who has a shot at my list.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Pillman was great at playing a pure babyface with a bit of an edge (and we later found out he had a great heel character inside of him), and anyone who put together such a great run of performances as he did in the early 90s has at least a shot of making my ballot. Plus, the opening of War Games '91 with him and Windham is one of the best 5 minutes of wrestling I've ever seen.

[W2BTD]

Just watched a bunch of 1989, and Pillman really got the best out of Luger. He's a guy who I think would threaten the bottom part of my list.

 

I can't fathom an argument for somebody like Jimmy Jacobs over Pillman, that to me comes off completely absurd, but then again I think Jacobs is pretty much dogshit so i'm probably the wrong person to be fair about it. But I don't see where Jacobs is better at anything than Pillman. Pillman even manages to smoke Jacobs at Jacobs own game as a mental case character with the loose cannon run at the end. What does Jacobs do better? Bleed? Sing?

[W2BTD]

I got caught up in Jimmy Jacobs bashing and forgot to make this point.

 

One thing about Pillman that I always thought was that he wasn't exactly a graceful high flyer, especially for a guy with a flying gimmick. His flying always came off forced and a little awkward to me, like he knew he had to do it for the gimmick and to stand out, but also like he really wasn't thrilled about it. He's probably the least graceful looking flying wrestler I can think of. You see bigger guys like 2 Cold or Christopher Daniels literally gliding through the air, and then there is Pillman, stumbling up he turnbuckles and flying with the grace of a dump truck. It always struck me as odd, like it really wasn't him, and he was a guy playing a part.

[Childs]

Pillman was one of the best workers in the U.S. '89-'92, no question. But his body broke down awfully early, and the absence of great heel performances, at least in ring, hurts him. I might be choosing between him and a guy like Curt Henning. And despite the disappointments of Mr. Perfect Curt, he had years of very good babyface work in Portland and excellent face/heel/champ work in the AWA before he ever got there. If Pillman had 10 years at peak level, he'd be a no doubter. As is, he'll probably be in my first 20 off the list.

[Grimmas]

I got caught up in Jimmy Jacobs bashing and forgot to make this point.

 

One thing about Pillman that I always thought was that he wasn't exactly a graceful high flyer, especially for a guy with a flying gimmick. His flying always came off forced and a little awkward to me, like he knew he had to do it for the gimmick and to stand out, but also like he really wasn't thrilled about it. He's probably the least graceful looking flying wrestler I can think of. You see bigger guys like 2 Cold or Christopher Daniels literally gliding through the air, and then there is Pillman, stumbling up he turnbuckles and flying with the grace of a dump truck. It always struck me as odd, like it really wasn't him, and he was a guy playing a part.

El Samurai is the guy I think of that is an awesome flyer, but is so awkward at it. To me, it makes it feel more dangerous. I don't get that impression of danger from Pillman though.

 

Pillman was very adaptable though. Great as the underdog babyface in the 80's, then as a great heel tag wrestler in the early 90's to being an awesome super worker in the mid 90's before the car wreck.

 

I hope to find room for him on my list somewhere.

[WingedEagle]

Completely agree about Pillman as an awkward flyer. The difference I find with a guy like Samurai, who I agree looked reckless at times, was that he would FLY. Pillman didn't get much air or lift compared with true flyers and seemed to be squeezing that stuff into his arsenal because he was booked that way rather than because he was particularly adept at it.

[GSR]

Just watched a bunch of 1989, and Pillman really got the best out of Luger. He's a guy who I think would threaten the bottom part of my list.

There is some wonderful stuff and interactions on the WCW show between the two of them. There was one match that was scheduled to be Luger against Richard Sartain, and Pillman comes out and goads him into fighting him there and then. Pillman gets the best of the fight with Luger retreating to the back, but he does a fantastic job in building Pillman (who has only been in the NWA about three months at this point) and making it seem as though he is a legitimate threat to him and his US title.

[bradhindsight]

I think the awkward flyer thing worked though because you have to remember Pillman's background. He was a special teams player for the Bengals, literally flying around on kickoffs and his energy and effort (despite being undersized) were well lauded. I always thought his aerial moves were very realistic. Rather than being a graceful balancing act, he was a kamikaze up there - just like his persona.

[DR Ackermann]

The more I go through the Yearbooks the more I realize how underrated and great Pillman was. He was super versatile, but I don't here anyone saying that about him. Look at his resume. Great underdog babyface working from underneath in his early WCW run, capable of having a great crusierweight spotfest (with Liger in 92), could have vicious hate filled brawls (with Windham in 91), great as a slimy, cheating, stooging heel in tags and singles. I think you could easily make a case for him as a top 10 American worker for the first half of the 1990s.