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#41 Loss

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 03:49 PM

Fujiwara-Takada from the UWF on 10/25/90 more closely resembles the human game of chess than any match I can recall seeing. I'm not ready to agree with that point.



#42 andrew79

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 05:58 PM

Fujiwara-Takada from the UWF on 10/25/90 more closely resembles the human game of chess than any match I can recall seeing.


Is that online anywhere?



#43 Microstatistics

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 06:17 PM

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I don't really consider shoot style a form of wrestling that emphasises narrative. I'm more looking for interesting/aesthetically pleasing work than a story.

Disagree with this because a lot of the shootstyle matches I have seen have clear narratives. Maybe the biggest example is the Tamura/Han trilogy. The roles of each and the story of each match are very clearly defined. Not only that, there is an overarching story as well because we get to see how their characters and approaches change/evolve across the three matches and each match builds off the previous. It is basically the Flair vs. Steamboat of shootstyle except maybe on an even higher level. Also mat wizard vs. striker, david vs. goliath and young lion vs. veteran/ace type matches and their variations are pretty common in shootstyle.



#44 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 06:23 PM

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I don't really consider shoot style a form of wrestling that emphasises narrative. I'm more looking for interesting/aesthetically pleasing work than a story.

Disagree with this because a lot of the shootstyle matches I have seen have clear narratives. Maybe the biggest example is the Tamura/Han trilogy. The roles of each and the story of each match are very clearly defined. Not only that, there is an overarching story as well because we get to see how their characters and approaches change/evolve across the three matches and each match builds off the previous. It is basically the Flair vs. Steamboat of shootstyle except maybe on an even higher level. Also mat wizard vs. striker, david vs. goliath and young lion vs. veteran/ace type matches and their variations are pretty common in shootstyle.


Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

So many of the great feuds I can think of are about huge and clashing ideologies.

The guy who parties and gets all the chicks vs. the dedicated family man (Flair vs. Steamer)
The rebel vs. the bastion of tradition (Tenryu vs. Jumbo)
The trash-talking employee vs. the authoritarian boss (Austin vs. McMahon)

In what ways would you say the narrative arch of Tamura vs. Han is on an "even higher level" than any of those?

Your answer here might help many of us here who struggle to understand or get into shoot style.

#45 Microstatistics

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 07:00 PM

In terms of an ideology, I would say Tamura vs. Han is the epitome of student vs. master. I put spoilers tags because I kind of reveal the finish of each match in the analysis.

 

9/25/1996

 

Spoiler

 

1/22/1997

 

Spoiler

 

9/26/1997

 

Spoiler



#46 GOTNW

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 05:30 AM

Han vs. Tamura has absolutely nothing to do with student vs. master. Pretty sure Tamura debuted before Volk Han unless there was a super underground russian wrestling fed in the 80s. Han was above Tamura in the pecking order so you could build your narrative on that. I don't think the first two matches have much narrative if any at all.



#47 Loss

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 05:55 AM

 

Fujiwara-Takada from the UWF on 10/25/90 more closely resembles the human game of chess than any match I can recall seeing.


Is that online anywhere?

 

 

It's not.



#48 Microstatistics

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 12:05 PM

Han vs. Tamura has absolutely nothing to do with student vs. master. Pretty sure Tamura debuted before Volk Han unless there was a super underground russian wrestling fed in the 80s. Han was above Tamura in the pecking order so you could build your narrative on that. I don't think the first two matches have much narrative if any at all.

That doesn't mean Han wasn't far more skilled and dangerous than Tamura (and basically everyone in RINGS) during their first match. His debut is irrelevant. The dude was an established beast from his first match onwards and that is why the story of the trilogy is Tamura trying to prove he was on Han's level and Han trying to put him in his place.



#49 Childs

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 12:13 PM

I don't think it's exactly master vs. a student, though. It's more the most skilled guy in the promotion dealing with the new stud coming in from another league. I see what you're saying, because Han definitely felt like the older, more established worker in the pairing. But teacher vs. student, to me, implies a more personal relationship than those two had.



#50 Microstatistics

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 12:24 PM

Yeah that's true I didn't mean it in a protege trying to prove himself kind of sense even though it has the same elements . Not sure how you would describe it exactly.

 

 

But my main point is that shootstyle is a great medium for storytelling, just like the traditional style and I would encourage more people to explore it.



#51 RyanClingman

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:10 PM

Are there any comps out there similar to Tabe's Volk Han comp which contains the majority of Tamura's matches?



#52 KB8

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:14 PM

Tabe actually made a Tamura comp as well (which I bought). I'm on a phone right now and my internet is shitty, but if you plug "best of Kiyoshi Tamura" into google it shouldn't be too hard to find.

#53 Childs

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:20 PM

The Tamura comp is fantastic.

#54 KB8

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:22 PM

It really, really is.

#55 elliott

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:18 PM

Oh shit! I actually just got that Volk Han comp (complete and accurate coming soon) and I was thinking I wanted to have one made for Tamura. Fantastic! I ranked Tamura 12th overall, but regret not getting him into the top 10. He was the best at the hardest style to master.

#56 KB8

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:21 AM

Yeah, he was my #13, and I said in the countdown thread that if I'd watched some more of the early UWFi stuff you'd written about in your C&A thread I could see myself bumping him into the top 10. I sort of wish I did now, because really good RINGS might be my all-time favourite kind of wrestling and Tamura was better at that than anyone else ever was.

#57 RyanClingman

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 02:07 PM

Thanks everyone! I will probably order it some time within the next few months. As a quick note, the Tabe comp is one of my favourite comps in my collection, although it should be said that a few matches are missing. Thankfully, most are available on the internet somewhere and it is only a handful.



#58 Tabe

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 01:48 AM

Thanks everyone! I will probably order it some time within the next few months. As a quick note, the Tabe comp is one of my favourite comps in my collection, although it should be said that a few matches are missing. Thankfully, most are available on the internet somewhere and it is only a handful.


Which matches did you think were missing?




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