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#1 Grimmas

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:53 PM

Discuss here.



#2 Shining Wiz

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 06:23 AM

A point for discussion:

Of all "The Guy"'s in WWWF/WWF/WWE history, Cena is behind only Austin as a worker.

#3 Goodear

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:16 AM

I'm not sure I would put him over Bret or Savage although I don't know that Savage was ever 'the guy' with Hogan's shadow all over his reign.

 

John has a lot of strong positives and strong negatives that are probably going to keep him out of my top 100.  Negatives first, he might be the least coordinated guys to ever be so effective.  His rope running almost always looks awful like he is mentally counting the steps he has to take in order to go where he has to end up.  His out of nowhere finishes don't always come of as desperate as he is trying to make them and can leave a viewer unsatisfied.  I don't have the issue with the STF that most do since he's (in my opinion) intentionally not choking guys since he knows kids would be imitating it and would end up on the nightly news when someone got strangled. 

 

That being said, the guy uses his power well and does a good job of selling effort when picking up guys 350 lbs plus.  He actually does a good hierarchy match when put against lower guys where he dominates.  He leans into stuff.  His lariat is the tits and has become a highlight for me watching his more recent stuff from the last year.  He's also not scared to put people over but understands he can't put everyone over every week or the jobs he does won't have meaning.



#4 WingedEagle

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:30 AM

Bret vs. Cena.  Now that's a comp that will give me a reason to look back at Hart.



#5 tim

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:33 AM

  I don't have the issue with the STF that most do since he's (in my opinion) intentionally not choking guys since he knows kids would be imitating it and would end up on the nightly news when someone got strangled.

 

Ha, I'm glad I'm not the only person who actually suspects this to be the case.
 



#6 Shining Wiz

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 08:59 AM

I'm not sure I would put him over Bret or Savage although I don't know that Savage was ever 'the guy' with Hogan's shadow all over his reign.
 
 I don't have the issue with the STF that most do since he's (in my opinion) intentionally not choking guys since he knows kids would be imitating it and would end up on the nightly news when someone got strangled.


By "The Guy", I would limit that tos Bruno, Backlund, Hogan, Austin and Cena. Savage never overtook Hogan, Bret was the champion, but never the guy the way the others were.

As for the STF, using it as a choke would be illegal! (Please read in a joking voice). Less jokingly, it is meant to go across the face though......the F does stand for face lock.

#7 Timbo Slice

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 03:48 PM

While Hogan/Andre is the pinnacle of big match WWE wrestling, I'm not sure Hogan is a better big match worker than Cena. Completely fungible, good talker, knows when to step it up, a smart worker...I don't see him falling anywhere outside of the Top 25 for me.



#8 goodhelmet

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:34 PM

He'll be in my Top 100 and has had tons of great-awesome matches. But he is also a guy who will wrestle down to his opponents as well. How many dogshit Cena matches have we been subjected to? This may not be his fault as he is the most exposed top guy ever. More TV main events and more PPV matches than any ace that came before him. 



#9 Hobbes

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:55 PM

He's a guy that sometimes does things mechanically that a first year wrestling student would do better, but I think that blinds some people to how many of the little things he does right, and to me personally, the intangibles will almost always trump how smooth a guy is in the ring. To some his selling and facial expressions may be over the top, but when you consider that a large portion of his fanbase are children, I would say they're usually pretty appropriate. 

 

You could make a case that no "Ace" of WWF/WWE (Bruno/Hogan/Austin) has been involved in more good to great matches than Cena. It is true that Austin's career was shortened by injuries and Bruno and Hogan's primes happened in eras where top guys weren't getting the opportunity to wrestle two non-squash TV matches a week and a PPV every month, but I would say that kind of generational difference could work in Cena's favor as well. I'd argue that Cena's schedule has been as demanding, if not more so, than any of those other guys, with the modern standards for how much you have to do physically in a match being so much higher, along with the fact that by all accounts Cena is an absolute workhorse away from the ring, with all the charity work, promotional activities and side projects he does. To me, it's admirable and amazing that this guy has continued to put in an honest effort week in and week out, when he probably reached the point years ago where he could've gotten by doing less. The first match he had with Brock, post Lesnar's return, stands out to me as a guy taking a level of abuse in the ring that a lot of guys of his stature wouldn't be willing to do.

 

It's also worth noting that CM Punk and Daniel Bryan's best WWE matches might have been against Cena, even though some people like to say that the former two guys carried the latter.



#10 Gus_McCrae

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:24 PM

I recently re-watched the No Way Out 2003 match between Cena and Angle, and I was surprised by a couple of things:

#1. That the match existed, since I had completely forgot.
#2 That young heel Cena had a nice mean streak. Nothing says mean streak like kicking a guy when he is down, when it has the right level of savageness which Cena boots here did.
#3 I think Cena main event style borrows pretty liberally from Angle. This was clearly a situation where Angle would lay out the match being the vet and Cena would follow. The formula was very much like a lot of Angle upper mid card matches from the time period. Yet, at the same time you could completely see this being a Cena versus Rollins match mext week on Raw with a very similar layout with Cena playing Kurt Angle and Rollins being Cena. Not in terms of move set but in terms of layout, pace, timing.

It was pretty good. The story wasn't effectve: angle the wrestler, versus Cena the brawler, but it felt like an important match where the result mattered, it kicked into a really good second gear leading into the finish, itsuspended my disbelief (which is something I struggle with for both of these guys sometimes), the intensity was decent.

#11 goodhelmet

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:28 PM

I have seen so many great Cena matches that he is a no brainer on my list. Live, he has been second only to Daniel Bryan in the amount of good-great matches I have seen. 



#12 Dylan Waco

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:14 PM

I could see myself being the high voter on Cena.  Yes he's had his bad matches, and yes he has his mechanical flaws, but he's had so many great big matches, and he's done it against a huge variety of opponents.  I could see him in my top thirty. 



#13 Loss

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:16 PM

For anyone who'd put Chris Jericho - to throw out a random name who I expect will get some love - above John Cena, I'd love to hear the argument, because it's one I don't see at all.



#14 Jesse Ewiak

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:22 PM

For anyone who'd put Chris Jericho - to throw out a random name who I expect will get some love - above John Cena, I'd love to hear the argument, because it's one I don't see at all.

I probably wouldn't put Jericho over Cena (even though they'd be in the same range for me), but if I was making the argument, it'd likely due to a working at a variety of places (ie. WAR/ECW/Mexico/WCW), preferring Jericho's mic work over Cena's, and preferring Jericho's style of work (more cruiserweight-style than Cena) over Cena. Remember, a lot of people don't like the WWE style, and still think there are no good Cena matches. I see plenty of people on places like Reddit grudgingly say Cena is a good wrestler, but only "when he's with awesome workers" or something like that. 



#15 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:29 PM

I could see myself being the high voter on Cena.  Yes he's had his bad matches, and yes he has his mechanical flaws, but he's had so many great big matches, and he's done it against a huge variety of opponents.  I could see him in my top thirty. 

 

I'm 99.8% sure I'll have you beat there.

 

If I have Cena as low as Top 30 something will have gone horribly wrong.
 



#16 Childs

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:31 PM

I could see myself being the high voter on Cena.  Yes he's had his bad matches, and yes he has his mechanical flaws, but he's had so many great big matches, and he's done it against a huge variety of opponents.  I could see him in my top thirty. 

 

He's produced more great title matches/main events than anybody in WWE/WWF history, right? Possibly by a wide margin.



#17 Jmare007

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:39 PM

This is gonna be a tough one to rank for me. I'm a big fan of Cena matches but his character burnout has made me lose interest in a lot of stuff he's been involved with in the last 4-5 years. But his 06'-07' run is one of the most underrated in WWE history and he is probably the best "big match" performer in the last decade.

 

Right now I could see him as a top 60-50 kinda guy but he could end up way higher if I think it through. I'm pretty sure he'll be pretty damn high if this is done again in 2026.



#18 WingedEagle

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:50 PM

I wouldn't be at surprised to Cena see finish incredibly high.  The quantity of good to great matches is staggering, and should be tough to ignore.



#19 DR Ackermann

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:56 PM

 

For anyone who'd put Chris Jericho - to throw out a random name who I expect will get some love - above John Cena, I'd love to hear the argument, because it's one I don't see at all.

I probably wouldn't put Jericho over Cena (even though they'd be in the same range for me), but if I was making the argument, it'd likely due to a working at a variety of places (ie. WAR/ECW/Mexico/WCW), preferring Jericho's mic work over Cena's, and preferring Jericho's style of work (more cruiserweight-style than Cena) over Cena. Remember, a lot of people don't like the WWE style, and still think there are no good Cena matches. I see plenty of people on places like Reddit grudgingly say Cena is a good wrestler, but only "when he's with awesome workers" or something like that. 

 

 

 

It's amazing how so many "smart marks" view these guys in a way that's completely opposite of reality. Jericho is seen as this great ring general, when that is what Cena actually is. Cena is seen as bumbling idiot who looks like he just got out of wrestling school, and that's how the majority of Jericho's career actually was.

 

People knock Cena for being awkward but go back and look at Jericho's career. He was sloppy as hell and was constantly overreaching on spots that were just outside of his athletic range. Seriously look at their output. Cena's been wrestling for 15 years. Jericho's 15th year was 2005. Take his whole career and it doesn't even come close to what Cena has done in 15 years.

 

Arguing for Jericho based on the number of places he worked is pointless because he sucked in all of those places. It's cool to hate Cena and love Jericho. If Cena was 'cool' this wouldn't even be a conversation. Preferring one style over another is one thing, but execution is what matters.



#20 Dylan Waco

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:09 PM

 

I could see myself being the high voter on Cena.  Yes he's had his bad matches, and yes he has his mechanical flaws, but he's had so many great big matches, and he's done it against a huge variety of opponents.  I could see him in my top thirty. 

 

I'm 99.8% sure I'll have you beat there.

 

If I have Cena as low as Top 30 something will have gone horribly wrong.
 

 

 

I'd say there are fifteen to twenty guys I would absolutely have to rate over him.  After that?  I don't know.  To make this slightly more controversial, I'm not at all positive I would rate Bryan over him






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