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Minoru Suzuki


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#21 pol

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 08:29 PM

I agree on the criticisms of the match, and find the number of people that use the word "fight" to refer to guys taking turns allowing the other guy to hit them bizarre, but you're way off base saying there was no heat. That was easily the hottest NOAH crowd in recent memory, they were eating the shit up.

 

I think Suzuki has very consciously allowed his opponents to work their kind of match when possible in this run, which is probably the right thing for an invader champion to do. The problem for me is that Marufuji and Sugiura's respective match styles are pretty shitty. It's telling that I enjoyed his matches vs. Taniguchi and Takayama, far more limited guys where Suzuki had to do most of the heavy lifting, far more than the Marufuji and Sugiura matches.

 

That said, I think the way he worked the Marufuji and Sugiura matches could be seen as a point in his favor, even if it actually resulted in worse matches for my taste than if he'd just taken control and slotted them into a Suzuki Match. You have to consider what the goal of this run is and the audience he's playing for.



#22 Childs

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 08:45 PM

Maybe I'm wrong about the heat. I'd have to rewatch. I also preferred the Takayama match; haven't watched the Taniguchi.

You make an interesting point about him playing to the audience, though really, is the taste of the NOAH crowd that different from the NJ crowd? I honestly don't know the answer at this point. Buf I'm sorry, if that involves a talent like Suzuki giving in to a meathead like Sugiura, it isn't going to help on my GOAT ballot.

#23 W2BTD

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:01 PM

To each his own but I thought it was straight up boring. Guys who are having a "fight" don't eat shots with no attempt to defend for 20 minutes. That's faux macho horseshit that has become a plague on modern Japanese wrestling. If it was so stirring, why was there zero heat? As I said, I often love Suzuki. But that struck me as a lowest-common-denominator performance by him.

 

Yeah, we're just far apart on what we enjoy, which is cool. I like guys taking turns trying to prove who is tougher and "macho horseshit" in my wrestling. That's probably why I like Sugiura more than most, because that's his style to a tee. 



#24 pol

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:11 PM

Maybe I'm wrong about the heat. I'd have to rewatch. I also preferred the Takayama match; haven't watched the Taniguchi.

You make an interesting point about him playing to the audience, though really, is the taste of the NOAH crowd that different from the NJ crowd? I honestly don't know the answer at this point. Buf I'm sorry, if that involves a talent like Suzuki giving in to a meathead like Sugiura, it isn't going to help on my GOAT ballot.

 

Not about differing tastes so much as allowing a guy to look good doing his style on his home turf. The whole point of this angle is to get NOAH out of its current malaise, which is a difficult proposition for a heel booked to come in and dominate the entire roster for close to a year. The least he can do is let Sugiura have a Sugiura match in front of a crowd of Sugiura fans.



#25 Childs

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:23 PM

I hear you. Do you feel like the Suzuki invasion has worked? Based on the handful of shows I've seen and stuff I've heard from modern puro mavens like Alan, my impression is that it's been kind of meh. But it's not like I want that to be the case. I hoped this would be a great run that would add to Suzuki's stature.

#26 Quentin Skinner

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 10:15 PM

It hasn't shown immediate, game changer results, but the Suzuki-gun invasion has shown promising signs of life for NOAH and put out stuff I've liked in-ring. That 9/19 I would even go as far to say it was great. Suzuki's matches for the most part have just been okay to me, but that Sugiura match and the Takayama one were spectacles I really enjoyed.

#27 pol

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 11:30 PM

I hear you. Do you feel like the Suzuki invasion has worked? Based on the handful of shows I've seen and stuff I've heard from modern puro mavens like Alan, my impression is that it's been kind of meh. But it's not like I want that to be the case. I hoped this would be a great run that would add to Suzuki's stature.

 

There's a chart of this year's Korakuen attendance floating around Twitter that would seem to indicate it has had a negative effect on business.



#28 fxnj

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:27 AM

I've only seen Suzuki's defense against Takayama, but based on it I think the reason attendance is down is that even though Suzuki is clearly a hard worker and it's unfair to fault him for letting his opponent wrestle their usual style, the whole invasion context just isn't something the fans want to see from the promotion. A big part of Baba's vision for King's Road was to move away from all the bullshit and create a style that highlights wrestling as a brutal sport. Hence, a world title match where Takayama tried to turn back the clock to 2002 yet couldn't conquer the heel champ with a shitload of interference shenanigans struck me as the promotion telling the stragglers from the days of Misawa and Kobashi that the promotion had moved on. I thought it was a technically really good match but it was also the moment I stopped considering myself a NOAH fan.

#29 GOTNW

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 06:24 AM

 

Hence, a world title match where Takayama tried to turn back the clock to 2002 yet couldn't conquer the heel champ with a shitload of interference shenanigans struck me as the promotion telling the stragglers from the days of Misawa and Kobashi that the promotion had moved on. I thought it was a technically really good match but it was also the moment I stopped considering myself a NOAH fan.

They were doing the same thing last year with Chokibogun, though it wasn't nearly as bad.

 

 

 

I wanted to like Sugiura-Suzuki but it completely bored me. I love strike exchanges but in order for them to work you have to sell eventually and they.........didn't. Nor did they bring any variety to them. They just traded elbows in the middle of the ring for twenty minuts. They hit each other really hard but I couldn't give two shits about it. I started liking the action as soon as they moved away from that but that was only the last few minutes.



#30 Microstatistics

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

If the lack of high end pro style matches was a possible knock against him, his 2016-17 run has rectified that.






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