Butch Reed

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[goodhelmet]

I have stated that Butch Reed and 2 Cold Scorpio could fight for best black wrestler of the modern era. I have to think about his placement but I don't think I will leave him off.

 

Notable matches from the Mid South set...

 

Butch Reed v. Iron Shiek (4/8/83)

Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum T.A. vs. Butch Reed & Jim Neidhart (12/25/83)

Buddy Landell & Butch Reed vs. The Rock n Roll Express (3/28/84)

Dusty Rhodes & Jim Duggan vs. Butch Reed & Hercules Hernandez (8/19/84)

Butch Reed vs. Skip Young (9/23/84)

Ernie Ladd & Butch Reed vs. Magnum TA & Master G (Ghetto Street Fight) (11/4/84)

Rock N Roll Express & Butch Reed vs. Steve Williams, Kamala & One Man Gang (2/25/85)

Hacksaw Butch Reed vs. Ted DiBiase (7/25/85)

Ric Flair vs. Butch Reed (8/10/85)

Dick Murdoch vs. Butch Reed (9/22/85)

Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair (10/11/85)

Dick Murdoch vs. Butch Reed (10/14/85)

Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair (11/8/85)

Dick Slater v. Butch Reed (11/22/85)

Butch Reed vs. Dick Slater (No DQ) (12/13/85)

Buzz Sawyer v Butch Reed (No DQ Dog collar match) (12/31/85)

Butch Reed vs. Dick Slater (1/1/86) J

 

 

Add in a good run with Doom and his Blackwell match, Reed should make my list.

[Loss]

For those into super high-end stuff, the matches with Flair (8/10/85 & 10/11/85), Murdoch (8/11/85 & 10/14/85) are a great 1-2-3-4 punch. For the Matt D types who want some variety, the match with Skip Young is a really good established guy versus lower ranked guy match. I love Butch Reed. And that 12/83 tag is one of my favorite matches of the 80s that I really think got slept on in the DVDVR results.

[goodhelmet]

That was a loaded set with all time classics.

[goc]

Definitely have a spot on my list for Butch Reed, although I don't know where. He was the biggest discovery of the Mid-South set to me, and I watched a lot of Doom matches afterwards and they were an awesome team. It's unfortunate he didn't really do anything in his WWF run because that could have probably helped him out a lot on a list like this. The two matches with Dick Murdoch are absolute all time classics in my book.

[JerryvonKramer]

I am going to be a "bit controversial" here. To what extent do you think Reed flatters to deceive?

 

His peak is relatively short. And yes, on his day he looks incredible, especially in some of that Mid-South stuff Will pointed out. But there are also some average Reed matches from that time period. He could really sit in a chinlock when he wanted to.

 

I'm just not sure he has the volume of goods you'd demand from some other people. Is a guy like Reed getting an easy ride because he was something of a "revelation" for DVDR 80s set watchers? Whereas a guy like Shawn Michaels or ... well, let's say, Randy Orton has a higher bar to get over.

 

Just a thought.

 

Reed is touch and go for my list. He'd currently be in the 80-100 region but is the sort of guy who might drop off depending on how many World of Sport / Lucha / 00s indie / modern WWE guys end up taking up space.

[goc]

That's kind of a fair point actually. He has a short run in 1983 Georiga that I liked before he headed off to Mid-South but outside of the Mid-South run and Doom there really isn't much for him to hang his hat on. In between Mid-South and WWF he was in the black hole of Central States teaming/feuding with Rufus R. Jones and then his WWF run is completely forgettable.

[JerryvonKramer]

Timely bump

[goodhelmet]

What am I missing? Why is this a timely bump?

[JerryvonKramer]

Ron Simmons nomination.

[Wade Garrett]

Butch Reed is a guy I'm very high on. He will be on my list for sure. Where I don't know yet. But Reed is a guy who I believe coulda been the NWA Champion when JCP took control of the title. The stars woulda had to lined up just right. But had I been calling the shots I woulda guided Reed the very best I could to stay on the straight and maintain a main event career. He coulda been great as a JCP (national) standout. He was a fantastic face and heel.

 

A little example of his early run vs. Flair in Florida and Georgia. Plus St. Louis and Mid-South shots. What an education

 

02/18/82 Tampa, FL (TV)

Reed over Flair

 

03/11/82 Tampa, FL (TV)

Reed over Flair

 

03/16/82 Tampa, FL

Reed & Sugar over Flair & Funk (Terry)

 

03/18/82 Jacksonville, FL

Reed (ddq) vs. Flair

 

03/27/82 St. Petersburg, FL

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

04/07/82 Miami, FL

Flair over Reed

 

04/17/82 Sarasota, FL

Flair over Reed

 

05/10/82 West Palm Beach, FL

Flair over Reed

 

05/11/82 Tampa, FL

Flair (60:00) draw vs. Reed

 

07/11/82 Orlando, FL

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

07/12/82 West Palm Beach, FL

Flair (dq-47:28) over Reed

 

07/15/82 Jacksonville, FL

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

07/17/82 Ft. Myers, FL

Flair (60:00) draw vs. Reed

 

07/17/82 Orlando, FL

Flair (60:00) draw vs. Reed

 

07/25/82 Orlando, FL

Flair (Cage Match) over Reed

 

07/26/82 West Palm Beach, FL

Flair (46:39) over Reed

 

07/29/82 Jacksonville, FL

Flair over Reed

 

09/20/82 West Palm Beach, FL

Flair (Cage Match) over Reed

 

09/23/82 Jacksonville, FL

Flair (draw) vs. Reed

 

10/23/82 Sarasota, FL

Flair over Reed

 

12/03/82 St. Louis, MO

Reed & Bruiser over Flair & Blackwell

 

01/01/83 St. Louis, MO

Flair (60:00-2/3 falls draw vs. Reed

 

01/22/83 Atlanta, GA (TV)

Reed over Flair

 

01/23/83 Atlanta, GA

Reed over Flair

 

01/24/83 Charleston, WV

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

01/29/83 Columbus, OH

Flair (dq) 0ver Reed

 

07/15/83 St. Louis, MO

Flair (Missouri Title Tourney) over Reed

 

Instead of jumping to Mid-South Reed may have been better served to hit Carolina first. One thing that hurt Reed in Mid-South was heeling vs. Dog. I loved Reed as a heel but the fans in New Orleans and the rest of the region saw him maybe as a guy ya couldn't trust. If ya could see into the future and knew Dog was goin to up and lave then ya never want Reed in a program vs. Dog.

 

06/24/85 New Orleans, LA

Flair (reverse decision) over Reed

 

08/10/85 New Orleans, LA

Flair (No dq) over Reed

 

10/11/85 Houston, TX

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

11/06/85 Shreveport, LA (TV)

Reed (6:02) over Flair

 

11/25/85 Jackson, MS

Flair (dq) over Reed

 

03/06/86 Kansas City, KS

Reed vs. Flair

 

I feel JCP shoulda done what ever they could to make a play for Reed in 86. I woulda done whatever it took to help the guy. I saw soooo0 much in him early on.

 

I'm definitely gonna be adding more in regards to Reed. Although there's not much left.

[shoe]

He's been showcased a lot on the Houston footage . He's looked incredible to just being there. I think where he worked on the card has a direct bearing on how hard he worked. He might have gotten the best singles matches out of JYD ever. Knocking Terry Funk out of that category says a lot about him as a wrestler.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I think the Butch Reed/Dick Murdoch were fantastic and would make my Top 100 Greatest Matches of all time. I thought the 12/83 tag was great, but not OMG GREAT~! I have not seen the Flair matches, but of course will. It seems like most his case rests on these matches. It seems too sparse and I did not think he was as blowaway great as a babyface as Duggan has been. Guess, I am saying I am not connecting as well with him and think his resume is a bit thin.

 

I do want to watch Reed vs Tito from WWF. I have seen the Doom classics and they are good to great. I don't think he is making the cut.

[W2BTD]

Unfortunately for him, his WWE run was not good at all, and that was some prime exposure. He was one of the laziest house show workers in a company full of lazy house show workers, and so much of that is on tape.

 

Not as high on Doom as most everybody else seems to be. Reed's best stuff is the hardest to find.

[DR Ackermann]

He carried JYD to some really good stuff. That's a feather in his cap. I don't think Reed had a long enough run as an elite worker to rank high on my list, but he will rank. Probably one of the better street fight wrestlers.

[fxnj]

For his WWE run, his cage match with Billy Graham was way better than it should have been, and a big part of that was Reed's heel charisma.

[elliott]

Butch Reed was someone who didn't make my 2016 list and I regretted it the moment I hit send on my ballot. I meant to vote for him but he slipped through the cracks. Now he's one of those people who is on the bubble simply by virtue of me considering more people this time around. He's still awesome and he'll contend for a spot but he's just below the level of someone who I have written in stone. I could easily be swayed with more footage. What's come out recently?

I fucking love some Butch Reed. The Mid-South run is amazing and everything you could want out of a top 100 candidate. We see Butch in a number of different settings either as a face or heel or working classic long title matches or violent brawls. He's one of the premier power wrestlers of his era. Check the 2/3 Falls St.Louis match against Crusher Blackwell for an awesome match with some incredible power wrestler vs super fat guy spots. The Doom run is fucking awesome too and a fantastic sort of supplement to his Mid-South run. The WWF run was disappointing based on what I've seen and especially by reputation. But thats hardly unique to Butch for that era WWE and the Doom run really more than makes up for it. The more I think about it the more I feel like I need to make some space for Butch Reed. 

[strobogo]

Really liked what I've seen of his Mid South work, but man his WWF run and pre and post Doom singles runs in WCW leave a very, very poor impression. Even as part of Doom, I can't think of anything worthwhile besides the two matches with Horsemen units and the Steiner matches which aren't really anything great but are fun hosses throwing bombs matches like Steiners vs Fire and Ice a few years later.

[elliott]

Oooh Doom rules! I have these Doom match recommendations. It's not a Misawa & Kobashi peak or anything, but a great run with quality matches & character work. They had a real presence. They were a good match up for smaller teams like the Rock & Rolls or Pillman & Zenk. So they had more than just the killer hoss battles. The post-Doom WCW singles run is like a 3 month stretch agaisnt Ron Simmons so I don't really worry about that too much

vs Eddie Gilbert & Tommy Rich Clash 9 11/15/89
vs Road Warriors 2/23/90
vs Steiners 2/6/90, 5/19/90, 6/13/90
vs Pillman & Zenk 6/16/90
vs Rock & Roll Express 7/7/90
vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson 10/27/90
vs Barry Windham & Arn Anderson 12/16/90
vs Sting & Lex Luger 1/30/91

The Mid-South stuff is where its at though and the bulk of his candidacy is gonna come from there and whatever new Houston footage there is. Definitely spend your time watching Reed against Murdoch, JYD,  Blackwell,  Flair, Buzz Sawyer, Dibiase, Slater, etc.

[strobogo]

I'll have to check out the RNR and Pillman/Z matches. Were they on Clash/PPV or regular TV? 

 

Shout out to Ron Simmons actually inventing the Stunner in the series with the Steiners.

[KB8]

I'm glad you brought Reed up, because he was my number 54 in 2016 and if anything I'd vote him even higher next time. Cards on the table, Reed is one of my three favourite wrestlers of all time. I probably voted him lower in 2016 than I wanted to but at the same time didn't want to give him too much of a favourite bump. I've re-watched most of the stuff from the Mid-South set since the last poll and there's been plenty of stuff from the Houston footage to bolster his case. He was also really fun as far back as 1981 working studio matches in Georgia, which I'd never seen prior to 2016 either. Same goes for that Flair match from Florida. Then there are things like the Blackwell match from St. Louis, the Doom run, one or two high points during an admittedly disappointing WWF run (and I wouldn't argue with anyone who dings him for that run as a whole) and he has a pretty strong resume of quality work. To elliot's point as well, he has versatility to his case. He'll have a 45-minute traditional NWA Title style bout with Murdoch, an ACTUAL 60-minute NWA Title match with Flair (that I don't love but I know some do), a dog collar with with Buzz Sawyer, an established heel powerhouse v plucky babyface underdog match against Skip Young, work as big bully heel in a tag or babyface house o' fire, can brawl, work in and out of holds, bump like a motherfucker, etc. Reed was the business. Here's ten recs because fuck it.  

 

BUTCH REED YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v Jerry Blackwell (St. Louis, 11/28/82)

w/Jim Neidhart v Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II (Mid-South, 12/25/83)

v Tito Santana (Houston, 1/13/84)

v Junkyard Dog (Houston, 6/22/84)

v Dick Murdoch (Mid-South, 9/22/85)

v Dick Murdoch (Mid-South, 10/14/85)

v Dick Slater (Houston, 11/22/85)

v Buzz Sawyer (Houston, 12/31/85)

w/Ron Simmons (WCW Clash of the Champions 10, 2/6/90)

w/Ron Simmons v Arn Anderson & Barry Windham (WCW Starrcade, 12/16/90)

[elliott]

1 hour ago, strobogo said:

I'll have to check out the RNR and Pillman/Z matches. Were they on Clash/PPV or regular TV? 

 

The RnR match was from Great American Bash 1990. The Pillman match I wanna say was WCW Pro. 

[concrete1992]

There is a much bigger Butch Reed post in me but for now I will say he's a fringe wrestler based on what I've seen from 83-85 (up to the 6/24 Flair match). That seems generally to be considered his peak so I'm a little concerned that stuff like Doom isn't going to carry him into more of a lock but we will see.

Going through, his pros to me are that he is a great athlete who figured out how to use his literal strength to his strengths. I think he is a more natural babyface than heel, the latter which is seemed to take him a little while to figure out everything from how to adapt to offense to how to carry himself. Eventually he really was a real POS. One of the best press slams of all time, got to hand it to him there.

The main con to me is that I don't find him dynamic. His charisma goes a long way to making things come off better than they should but there isn't enough juice in the engine at times to take things that are good into that next territory.

In the grand scheme, I haven't seen much high-end Butch through that period though. The 12/25/83 tag with Neidhart against Mangum and Mr.Wrestling II is maybe one of my favorite wrestling matches I've ever seen so that's the type of match that makes me not want to move Butch into the "probably not" category. And then there are just the performances where he doesn't do a ton but provides a strong presence with matches featuring Mangum and Hacksaw.