Shinsuke Nakamura

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Grimmas]

The best thing in New Japan for the last half decade. Tremendously charismatic. He could work that New Japan style without being annoyed like Tanahashi does. If you consider Tanahashi, then Nakamura is a better option.

[Timbo Slice]

He's had some crackers over the last few years, but I don't think it's enough to get him on the list. The next time we all decide to do this, I have a feeling he'll be right there, though.

[Dylan Waco]

Can't see it, and I have a real soft spot for the guy. Way too many off nights, mixed in with admittedly great performances. Offhand the only guy I can think of who has guaranteed a spot on my list in large part because of their post-2002 Japanese work is Dick Togo, though I may be forgetting someone

[moazzam23]

Unfortunately Nakamura was quite boring throughout the 2000s. He's had MOTYCs in the last couple of years but even now he can be hit or miss. The Ishii match from the G1 was dissapointing.

[cubbymark]

Nakamura's probably the only guy of the modern NJPW heavyweights I have a vested interest in. Ever since he seemingly got a personality transplant, Nakamura has been nothing short of awesome. Perhaps I am speaking in hyperbole, but compared to Tanahashi, it's night and day.

 

One other thing to Nakamura's credit is that even when he is in Mexico, he doesn't really phone it in unlike other Japanese guys like Tanahashi do.

 

I'm very interested to see if upon further exploration of Nakamura I find him as enjoyable as I currently do, which could influence his placement on my list.

[Jmare007]

Couldn't really get into the guy's character and matches until he debuted his "swagged out" persona on the late 2000's. I agree with Dylan that he had way too many nights off to have a compelling case, even after he found his gimmick.

 

Him vs Tanahashi is an interesting debate imo. But not for a "100 GOAT wrestlers", they could maybe crack the bottom.

[concrete1992]

I need to watch more of his earlier stuff but he has a solid shot of making my list. He had a real banner year last year and may have been the best wrestler in NJPW. I mean Ishii might have been it but I'm not going to watch Ishii for this project so Nak is the guy who'll lose the spot with the more I watch.

 

Granted I'm basing this off like 2-3 years so he isn't a guy like AJ who is continuing to make a case since i know how good some of his stuff was before this run.

[W2BTD]

It should be noted that if you look at New Japan, they always turns to Nakamura when they need someone to work a program or a match on a big show with sub par opponents, and he always over delivers.

 

vs Sakuraba, WrestleKingdom 7 (MOTY contender, which is a legit miracle when you look at Saku's body of work in New Japan)

 

vs Kengo Mashimo, 2/10/13

 

vs Shelton Benjamin, 5/3/13 (see below)

 

vs Shelton Benjamin, 9/29/13 (I don't think Shelton is nearly as bad as most of you guys do, but these are easily the two best matches of Shelton's NJPW run)

 

vs Captain New Japan, 12/12/13

 

vs Bad Luck Fale, 3/23/14 (there is A LOT more of this)

 

w/Sakuraba vs Daniel & Rolles Gracie, 5/3/14 (whoa boy, look at this collection of stiffs)

 

vs Daniel Gracie, 5/25/14

 

vs Bad Luck Fale, 6/21/14 (still more of this to come)

 

vs Bad Luck Fale, 8/8/14 (G1, but this was positioned as a key match Nak needed to win to advance to the finals)

 

vs Bad Luck Fale, 9/21/14 (yes, he was asked to drag Fale around for FOUR main event level matches, and they all delivered)

 

 

That's ten challenging singles matches in two years, in a company where outside of tournaments you don't get many chances to work a ton of singles bouts. Nearly half of his big show matches were with varying degrees of slop or underachievers. If I made a list like this for, say, Tanahashi, it might be empty. This tells me that New Japan feels like Nakamura is the most versatile star on the roster, or at least have more confidence in his ability to deliver against a wide variety of styles. And generally, he does.

 

I can't imagine coming up with 100 guys who were better. When I did this in 2010, he was in the middle of the pack, and that was before tons of great matches he's had since during the hot period.

[soup23]

That is a good list in argument if Naka. He does have good ability to make something out if nothing.

[Alan4L]

Joe makes a great point there with the very good matches with lesser opponents. Definitely a strong part of the candidacy for sure.

 

To contrast, here's some of his best matches with more well regarded opponents:

 

Vs. Kota Ibushi (G1 2013) - Maybe the best match of both men's careers. My 2013 MOTY.

 

Vs. Okada (G1 Final 2014) - a huge performance on a huge stage. He really does a ton for Okada here.

 

Vs. Tanahashi (April 2014) - Sumo Hall main event for the IC title. Really well worked. Probably their best match against each other.

 

Vs. Minoru Suzuki (G1 2012) - Such an intense match. One that I've seen alot of non-NJPW fans enjoy.

[concrete1992]

Can you guys display that kind of stuff pre-2011?

[stomperspc]

Can you guys display that kind of stuff pre-2011?

 

I like the Dome match versus Takayama from 2004. Nakamura played the young guy/underdog role really well and took quite a beating. Good selling and strong comebacks. It is more of a Takayama match but Nakamura played his part well.

[WingedEagle]

+1 on the Takayama match. I think the point about Nakamura being able to bring out the best in poor opponents is both accurate as well as interesting. I don't think Tanahashi could've done as much with workers like Fale or Sakuraba (which in hindsight as a MOTYC is even more incredible as an all time performance), but I wonder how to weigh his output vs. lesser opponents versus Tanahashi's or others against elite talent. One of those debates that makes this all fun.

[Childs]

Nakamura has the best shot at my list of the current NJ guys. He might not do the 30-minute epics as often (or as well) as Tanahashi, but he has been compelling in a wide range of contexts over the years. The guy is just interesting to watch, with the unusual way he moves around the ring and his offbeat intensity. The Sakuraba and Ibushi matches were two of my favorites from last year, and I've enjoyed him in what I've seen of the 2014 G-1. His ultimate placement will depend on how much I like his early career stuff and how many more great performances he reels off off over the next 18 months.

[Alan4L]

Can you guys display that kind of stuff pre-2011?

two interpromotional tags against NOAH guys immediately come to mind - 2009 Tokyo Dome vs Misawa/Sugiura and March 2009 Budokan NOAH show vs. Shiozaki/Sugiura. He had a couple of good brawls with Togi Makabe in 2007 including a pretty violent chain match. I liked his match with Brock in 2005 alot - he got to play total underdog and it was one of the highlights of Brock's NJPW run.

 

His matches with Tanahashi from 2006 to 2011 were usually very good (some great). They weren't at the level of the big main events from recent years but they never let you down.

[stomperspc]

I think Nakamura would be in the top three – if not one or two – on my wrestler of the year list for 2014 if the year ended today. This is his 2014 singles match resume:

 

* 01/04 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – above average, “normal” New Japan main event style match in the *** - *** ½ range, although below what you might want from a Tokyo Dome main event.

 

* 01/18 vs. Rush (NJPW/CMLL) – I’ve liked all the Rush matches and this one no exception. ***-range. A good 10:00 minute match between two wrestlers that are a lot more similar than you might think.)

 

* 02/09 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – better than the Dome match. Still worked like a typical New Japan main event so that might not be everyone’s thing, but the work was a bit more solid and they created more drama than in the Dome match.

 

* 03/15 vs. Davey Boy Smith, Jr. (NJPW) – a little disappointing considering a like both wrestlers a lot. This was right after Billy Robinson’s death and DBS Jr. worked in some tribute spots – all of which were cool – but the rest of the match felt a bit disjointed. ** ½ or so.

 

* 03/22 vs. Prince Devitt (NJPW) – what you would expect. Not bad, but not anything all that great.

 

* 03/23 vs. Minoru Suzki (NJPW) – better than the Devitt match. Not the blow away match these two might have in them, but this was the semi-finals of the New Japan cup and Nakamura had another match to work later, so it was worked as such. ***-ish give or take.

 

* 03/23 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – while they were helped by Nakamura unexpectedly getting busted open rather badly on a Fale knee drop, this was still a very good match and great example of Nakamura getting the most out of a lesser opponent (although Fale isn’t as bad as some make him out to be). *** ½ - *** ¾.

 

* 03/28 vs. Damien Slater (Australia) – haven’t seen.

 

* 04/06 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – the best of their early-2014 trilogy of singles matches. Tanahashi works heel and Nakamura has his leg worked over. Nakamura’s selling was really great here. There was one layout issue where the leg pain briefly went on-off-on, but in no way a big deal. A very good match and a different match than both guys (particularly Tanahashi) usually work. ****

 

* 05/09 vs. Tyson Dux (BCW – Canada) – haven’t seen.

 

* 05/17 vs. Kevin Steen (ROH) – overall, I didn’t think this was a good match. However, I have seen a lot of Steen matches and very few have done anything for me at all. This was one of the few Steen matches that I thought was at least right around “okay” which I think is a mark in Nakamura’s favor.

 

* 05/25 vs. Daniel Gracie (NJPW) – not as bad as some have written, but certainly not good either. The Sakuraba/Rolles Gracie, Jr. match on the same card was better. It is hard to hold this against him because 10 minutes on PPV with an untrained Gracie was a monumentally difficult challenge. I will say there were sequences I liked and Daniel looked as good here as he did at any time during this run.

 

* 06/15 vs. Zack Sabre, Jr. (RPW – UK) – haven’t seen this, but I definitely want to try and track it down.

 

* 06/22 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – no accidental blood this time yet they still produced a good match. *** - *** ¼ range.

 

* 07/21 vs. Katsuyori Shibata (NJPW) – G1 opener. I think they have a better match in them (hopefully when they wrestle in early November) but this was a stiff, intense, and dramatic match that steered clear of many of the issues that sometimes plague Shibata matches. *** ½ +

 

* 07/23 vs. Davey Boy Smith, Jr. (NJPW) – several notches above their New Japan Cup match from March. Smith has some neat grappling/submission inspired stuff but he doesn’t always show it off and doesn’t always know when/how best to use it. He rolls some of it out in this match and ties it in perfectly with his normal offense. I liked the opening work in this a bunch and the ending was strong as well. *** ½ +

 

* 07/26 vs. Yugi Nagata (NJPW) – another good match. I didn’t like it as much as Meltzer but thought Nakamura got the most out of Nagata.

 

* 07/28 vs. Tomoaki Honma (NJPW) – Honma had such a great G1 and this wasn’t among the top 2 or 3 matches he had during the tournament, so it might get lost in the shuffle. I thought it was clearly above average however and there was nothing wrong with it at all. ***.

 

* 07/31 vs. Shelton Benjamin (NJPW) – I don’t really remember this match.

 

* 08/01 vs. Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW) – this was a modern New Japan match through and through and a good one at that. It was clearly a step or two below Styles/Suzuki from the same card but they delivered the exact kind of match most people wanted/expected them to deliver. *** ½.

 

* 08/03 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – thought this was better than the Ishii match but below their April match. *** ½ or so.

 

* 08/04 vs. Satoshi Kojima (NJPW) – Nakamura didn’t work the same way against Kojima that he did Nagata, but they were similar matches in that both guys have enough in the tank still to have the occasional above average performance if given the right opponent to bring it out of them. Nakamura got that out of Nagata and to an extent, he got it out of Kojima here. ***, maybe a tad less, but above average.

 

* 08/06 vs. Doc Gallows (NJPW) – one of the better Gallows NJPW matches. On the same level as the Kojima match.

 

* 08/08 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – the winner of this (I think) was guaranteed to advance and Fale had beaten all of the top guys already, so they certainly had some drama to work with. Another good Fale/Nakamura match and the best Fale looked in their series of matches. *** ¼.

 

* 08/10 vs. Kazuchika Okada (NJPW) – up until this point in the year, Nakamura was missing that one great singles match. I think this match was it. This felt appropriately big like a G1 finals match at a Dome should feel. Nakamura’s rolling armbar is one of my favorite spots of the year. His progressively bigger bumps on the trio of match-ending rainmakers made the finish. Excellent match. **** ½.

 

* 09/21 vs. Bad Luke Fale – same as the other Fale matches (good match, good work by Nakamura carrying a limited but game opponent).

 

To add to that, I think more often than not he comes off as the best wrestler in many of the multi-man matches he is involved in. Considering that he is regularly working with the other top guys in those matches, that is telling. I thought highly of the January 5^th Korakuen eight-man tag, February 2^nd trios match, April 24^th 10-man elimination tag, and September 5^th 10-man elimination match, all of which which Nakamura was featured prominently in.

 

I am not totally certain that he will be #1 on my list at the end of December, but based on that resume he is a very strong contender at the moment. It is hard for me to imagine that they are very many wrestlers who were the best in the world one year that wouldn’t make my top 100 of all-time list. It would have to be a very odd situation (one great year and nothing else) for that to happen. Given how good Nakamura has been this year and last (WOTY level), and his solid resume beyond that, I am pretty sure he’ll make my list. Almost definitely bottom 1/4^th and maybe even more on the backend than that, but he’ll be there.

[Dylan Waco]

He might be my WOTY in WON, but not most outstanding

[stomperspc]

He might be my WOTY in WON, but not most outstanding

 

Like I said, not sure if he will be but he is up there for me. I'd prob. have to jot down all the matches for the other guys I feel are contenders (to jog my memory), but Nakamura certainly feels like he is in that top group in terms of good in-ring years. Rush, Virus, Cavernario, Styles, Ishii and Casas are probably the other wrestlers who feel like they are in that top "Most Outstanding" group right now. Not sure anyone else has the matches.

[GOTNW]

He'll be somewhere in my bottom half. An amazing big match performer from 2009 onwards with a lot of good stuff before he found himself as a character. A bizarre example of this would be him having Naofumi Yamamoto's/YOSHI-TATSU's career match in....2005? And as mentioned he works really well against less capable opponents. Also got a very good match out of Wataru Inoue.

[club]

I didn't submit a ballot in 2016, but if I had Shinsuke would have been on it. Thought he was second only to Tanahashi in terms of New Japan guys during their 2010s glory years.

Given that I've a) soured a fair bit on New Japan and b) not watched WWE properly in about a decade, I've no idea what to do with at the moment. What are people's thoughts on him this time round?

[Reel]

There was some chatter after the Mutoh match earlier this year that WWE had totally blown it with Nakamura.

I don't think anyone who has watched any substantial part of his run there could come away thinking that. They've pushed him, given him big spots to show out, and he just hasn't brought it.  Outside of maybe the first 6 month of his NXT run, he's just been mailing it in. I don't know if he's been one of the 50 best wrestlers in the company in any single year since 2016.

As for before, He's got an incredible greatest hits resume, and that goes a long way for me, but in that time there was a lot of lackadaisical 6 man tags and other stuff that was just 'there.' 

[Tetsujin]

This motherfucker has one of the most amazing peaks I've ever seen in a pro wrestling, back when his incredible charisma melted with really solid and full of personality ringwork. Sadly he hasn't been like that since coming to the main roster (with only just a couple of exceptions, the LMS with AJ being the main one). So, very strong lack of consistency is going to hurt him, and I bet he won't be at 2026's final list. He won't be in mine, at least. Such a shame because at his best, he's one of my favourites to ever do it.

[Ma Stump Puller]

Honestly just says more about the aura of Muto and/or NOAH's presentation that people were thinking Nakamura was a lot better than he actually was there, I didn't see anything particularly crazy in that match that warranted such a response.

Nakamura hasn't been terrible in recent years either (his recent 2023 quality of work has actually been fairly alright, for what it was) but he's just never really applied himself. Same issue he had in NJPW was that he'd be on maybe a few times a year and the rest would be autopilot mode, which seemed to start being a thing after his early runs had him get some nasty injuries. His WWE stuff isn't a black mark on his career by that same metric but I wouldn't be lying in saying that it's not exactly something that makes his potential top 100 run any more solidified. It's understandable because he's apparently really bashed up these days. 

 

 

[EnviousStupid]

GWE 2016 was the best time for Nakamura to have a place in many people's ballots. I suspect most were only following the major stuff from New Japan and when a match called for Shinsuke to turn it on, he was clearly one of the best in the world. But excluding that top end material, a lot of the time he was coasting off of his undeniable charisma and while that's not a dealbreaker for a project like this, it is something that gets exposed quickly in a weekly TV setting like WWE.