Ricochet

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[concrete1992]

Rich or Joe or someone who thinks they would give Ricochet a gander should do a list like Stomper did for Bryan. Actually just want one of those lists for pretty much every guy, especially indie fellas. But I can see after the past few years why he would be considered. I probably won't put him on my list but I've got so much damn wrestling to watch I have no idea how it'll shake out. Feel like "the perfect PWG wrestler" might make some moves by being REALLY athletic. Plus he's had quality stuff with Cesaro and Zayn.

[pol]

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

[W2BTD]

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Which finish? Benadryller?

 

Have you seen his Dream Gate match from this year vs YAMATO? Not a Dragon Gate style match at all aside from some minor interference, and a totally different style of match from the usual Ricochet bout.

[GSR]

Rich or Joe or someone who thinks they would give Ricochet a gander should do a list like Stomper did for Bryan. Actually just want one of those lists for pretty much every guy, especially indie fellas. But I can see after the past few years why he would be considered. I probably won't put him on my list but I've got so much damn wrestling to watch I have no idea how it'll shake out. Feel like "the perfect PWG wrestler" might make some moves by being REALLY athletic. Plus he's had quality stuff with Cesaro and Zayn.

 

There was one match he had with Cesaro in Chikara that was really good, with Cesaro being a perfect base for all of Ricochet's aerial offense. It's really not relevant, but I will add that he looks so much better now than he did in his early days when he had the long hair.

 

[cheapshot]

Ricochet is so crisp in the ring, the Ibushi match is one of my favourite high flying style matches of the year - I am looking forward to seeing some more of his pre 2014 stuff.

[Matt D]

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Totally agree on Ricochet over PAC.

[W2BTD]

 

Rich or Joe or someone who thinks they would give Ricochet a gander should do a list like Stomper did for Bryan. Actually just want one of those lists for pretty much every guy, especially indie fellas. But I can see after the past few years why he would be considered. I probably won't put him on my list but I've got so much damn wrestling to watch I have no idea how it'll shake out. Feel like "the perfect PWG wrestler" might make some moves by being REALLY athletic. Plus he's had quality stuff with Cesaro and Zayn.

 

There was one match he had with Cesaro in Chikara that was really good, with Cesaro being a perfect base for all of Ricochet's aerial offense. It's really not relevant, but I will add that he looks so much better now than he did in his early days when he had the long hair.

 

 

 

I actually do think that last point is relevant, because long hair/backyard gear Ricochet looked so bad, that I believe it really did take away from his matches.

 

Ricochet cleaned up his look right around the same time that he broke out as a worker. Partly coincidence, but I can't help but think the light bulb went on at some point when he decided to take this shit a little more seriously.

[WingedEagle]

 

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Totally agree on Ricochet over PAC.

 

 

Could not agree more. Ricochet has been fun and looked like a star when I've seen him this year. Wasn't familiar with Pac before NXT but outside of delivering a few high spots in isolation I haven't been remotely impressed. Just doesn't make any kind of connection.

[Loss]

Can someone put together a Ricochet starter kit for those of who have never seen him?

[pol]

 

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Which finish? Benadryller?

 

Have you seen his Dream Gate match from this year vs YAMATO? Not a Dragon Gate style match at all aside from some minor interference, and a totally different style of match from the usual Ricochet bout.

 

 

Yeah the Benadryller. I guess I don't mind the move itself so much as the ridiculousness of building stretch runs around the struggle to get a guy up in the fireman's carry, just so he can set them back on their feet and kick them in the head. Just kick them in the fucking head!

 

Was the YAMATO match the one built around Ricochet getting his leg worked over? That's one of the few Dragon Gate matches I've seen. I remember enjoying it, will have to give it another look.

[W2BTD]

 

 

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Which finish? Benadryller?

 

Have you seen his Dream Gate match from this year vs YAMATO? Not a Dragon Gate style match at all aside from some minor interference, and a totally different style of match from the usual Ricochet bout.

 

 

Yeah the Benadryller. I guess I don't mind the move itself so much as the ridiculousness of building stretch runs around the struggle to get a guy up in the fireman's carry, just so he can set them back on their feet and kick them in the head. Just kick them in the fucking head!

 

Was the YAMATO match the one built around Ricochet getting his leg worked over? That's one of the few Dragon Gate matches I've seen. I remember enjoying it, will have to give it another look.

 

 

Yup, that's the match. YAMATO uses a foreign object (I believe a wrench, of all things) while wrenching (no pun intended) in a half crab early in the match, and then spends the rest of the bout working over that knee. I thought it was a great performance by both guys, but Ricochet really stood out as he rarely gets the chance to work that way because when he gets booked in America, obviously indie promoters are booking him to be Ricochet and fly around.

[stomperspc]

Can someone put together a Ricochet starter kit for those of who have never seen him?

 

This is just from the last two years because (a) I have not seen a ton of him before then and ( b )he generally was not very good pre-2012-ish (and I'd say even later than that). Ultimately, the fact that that he has just a two year or so track record as a "good" wrestler will keep him off my list. However, he is only 26 and has all the tools (and then some). If he can continue putting it altogether and land in the right spot long term, he could be a top guy for years to come.

 

• w/ Rich Swann vs. Samuray del Sol & AR Fox - 03.22.13 (PWG All-Star Weekend 9) - A very fun all-out sprint with a ton of cool athletic spots and a crowd that just eats all of it up.
• vs. Jushin Liger - 06.03.14 (NJPW 2014 BOSJ Night #4) - A shorter match (10 minutes) that is a bit toned down in terms of big time high flying spots so you can see how he handles a situation where he cannot (totally) lean on his amazing athleticism.
• vs. KUSHIDA - 06.08.14 (NJPW 2014 BOSJ Finals) - Probably my favorite Ricochet match. KUSHIDA was really great in it but Ricochet's performance was good, too.
• vs. Kota Ibushi - 06.21.14 (NJPW Dominion) - The big athletic spectacle you would expect between these two.
• vs. YAMATO - 05.05.14 (Dragon Gate Dead or Alive) - Ricochet has his leg worked over. His selling is strong here but he is also able to mix in enough offense without (for the most part) blowing off the leg work (which was the focus of the match)

I think that would give someone unfamiliar with Ricochet a good idea of why some think so highly of him. The Chris Hero match from EVOLVE in January and the two Uhaa Nation matches from this year (DG and EVOLVE) some people also really liked. I thought all three were okay to good, but not great.

[Phil Schneider]

I don't see it, I don't even have him as a top 5 light skinned indy flyer

[Childs]

I don't see it, I don't even have him as a top 5 light skinned indy flyer

 

Laughter.

[FedEx227]

Can someone put together a Ricochet starter kit for those of who have never seen him?

 

Give me some time and I'll get this together for you. I'll try to dig up as many videos as I can as well.

[FedEx227]

 

 

I'm interested in seeing more of him. I think WWE hitching their wagon to PAC instead of him was foolish since Ricochet at least equals him in wow factor and blows him away in terms of look and charisma. On the low end I've seen stuff like his recent EVOLVE match against Uhaa Nation where the typical "they did too much and none of it meant anything" indie criticism applies. On the high end his New Japan matches against Kota Ibushi and KUSHIDA I felt did a good job of building to the spectacular spots and making them memorable. His finish is stupid, imo.

 

Which finish? Benadryller?

 

Have you seen his Dream Gate match from this year vs YAMATO? Not a Dragon Gate style match at all aside from some minor interference, and a totally different style of match from the usual Ricochet bout.

 

 

Yeah the Benadryller. I guess I don't mind the move itself so much as the ridiculousness of building stretch runs around the struggle to get a guy up in the fireman's carry, just so he can set them back on their feet and kick them in the head. Just kick them in the fucking head!

 

 

I love Rico but I totally agree, I hate the move.

[W2BTD]

The Benadryller is a "my knees already hurt and I'm not even 30 yet" compromise. He's already starting to tone down his flying, both because he's probably feeling it, and also perhaps at the direction of WWE, who as most of you know had him in for a few days earlier this year.

 

He'll probably have to come up with something else anyway, since he will have trouble putting some of the bigger WWE guys up onto his shoulders (like Punk using the Anaconda Vice as a secondary finisher).

[concrete1992]

Terrible compromise then. If he's an imaginative high flyer he should be able to come up with a competent non-high flying finisher.

[DylanZero]

I don't want to play the villain here or come across as unfair but honestly, I just think he's not very good at all even under typical Indy high flyer standards. All of his moves value flash over substance and I find his strikes range from incredibly weak looking to flat out sloppy. And psychology? Whoo-boy. I honestly gave up on him awhile ago but watch his matches for completionist's sake. I'd like to point out the Liger match in particular, as one of the defining spots of that and it says a lot about Ricochet, is when the Shooting Star was used as basically a transition spot. On Liger. On Liger. To me that about sums him up on where his head's at.

 

I'm legit wondering if he'd make a top 100 Juniors/Cruisers/Whatever still going today. I'm thinking of a lot of names I'd pick ahead of him right off the top of my head, letalone who have had longer careers and stints of equal or greater output.

[Alan4L]

I don't want to play the villain here or come across as unfair but honestly, I just think he's not very good at all even under typical Indy high flyer standards. All of his moves value flash over substance and I find his strikes range from incredibly weak looking to flat out sloppy. And psychology? Whoo-boy. I honestly gave up on him awhile ago but watch his matches for completionist's sake. I'd like to point out the Liger match in particular, as one of the defining spots of that and it says a lot about Ricochet, is when the Shooting Star was used as basically a transition spot. On Liger. On Liger. To me that about sums him up on where his head's at.

 

I'm legit wondering if he'd make a top 100 Juniors/Cruisers/Whatever still going today. I'm thinking of a lot of names I'd pick ahead of him right off the top of my head, letalone who have had longer careers and stints of equal or greater output.

his Regal Plex looks absolutely devasatating and I think his strikes have gotten a ton better in the last 9 months so I think the opinion that his moves value flash over substance is one you might waiver on if you saw more of his recent stuff. He's become a much much heavier hitter than he was. The added bulk helps that I'm sure.

 

As for psychology, I'd point to the YAMATO match Joe mentioned, the Uhaa match at Korakuen and ABSOLUTELY the Best Of The Super Juniors final against KUSHIDA which may have had more engaging psychology than any match in 2014.

 

He probably would have been a lock for my list by the time 2016 rolls around but this Lucha Underground thing really puts a dampener on his chances. He just got pulled by them from his match with Okada in England next week and I see alot more of that happening as the months roll on.

[JazeUSA]

Can someone put together a Ricochet starter kit for those of who have never seen him?

he is the Puma character on that new Lucha Underground show that's on tv now, he is a high flyer that has slowed down a lot & improved on his actual ring work lately instead of focusing on just high spots, he won the NJPW Super Jr's tourney this year, also his match again John Morrison on the first episode of Lucha Underground was pretty good imo, there's tons of stuff to choose from for Richochet but imo he'd be a better candidate for the 2026 ballot, he is still a kid at this point

[BillThompson]

I said it on Twitter earlier, but were this tumbling Ricochet would be great. It's not tumbling, it's pro wrestling and Ricochet isn't great, he's not really good, but he's sort of decent. All the flipping and flying doesn't matter if you can't do anything but flip and fly. I mean I'm not asking for him to be the best in the world, but when a guy works over your arm pretty viciously and then you proceed to use your damaged arm to stop an Irish Whip and then reverse said Irish Whip and use your damaged arm to execute an Irish Whip of your own you missed some memos when it came to constructing a pro wrestling match. Also, I just watched him throw a kind of Forearm/European Uppercut where he gently placed his arm against his opponents head and apparently that was supposed to hurt. If you're strikes are that awful, don't throw them, ever.

[Karl]

The more I see of Ricochet, the more problems I have with him. He's been in some truly very very good matches, but I cant help but think that is more his opponents doing than his own. Some of the stuff he does is spectacular, but great spots alone do not make great wrestlers. Wouldn't even come close to being on my list.

[Big Rob]

I dont see tons of his matches, but hes fantastic at facial selling after taking a big move or when in a submission hold - his face will always be up towards the crowd so everyone can see him.