Sami Callihan

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[concrete1992]

I don't see myself voting for him but I won't rule it out completely either.

Not a big fan of his deathmatch era stuff so much but I'll go rewatch his tag teaming days with Moxley to see how that stuff holds up. Pretty on fire in 2012. Worst part about his case? As he truly was approaching best on the planet territory he got signed by this big thing that wanted to hide him for years instead of actually showing him and letting him develop on screen in DEVELOPMENTAL!

[Phil Schneider]

He is going to need to either get fired and get back to the indies, or show up on NXT or WWE TV to make it, but he was awesome in the indies and on his way to a case

[Dylan Waco]

I can't see Sami on my list but I wanted to nominate him because my theory is that anyone who I ever thought was the best in the world in a given year at least deserves to be thought about. In 2012 he was traveling the world having good matches with scrubs and great matches with high end guys and random vets like Rhino. He had plenty of good stuff in the years before that, but I agree that he was peaking when the WWE signed him to sit around and do nothing in Florida. I'm not sure he'd be a good fit there anyway, but it really is annoying to know that he's been Evan Bourne-d without even getting a shot

[W2BTD]

I couldn't stand this guy at all and hated his presence on EVOLVE/DGUSA shows, until the tail end of his indie run when I turned the corner on him. Then he signed with WWE and literally disappeared.

[Chess Knight]

Kind of annoying how the indy guy who's formula I thought would most fit into WWE TV hasn't actually been on WWE TV. He was my favourite wrestler in the world a couple years back when Mark Henry was out of action. Wish my youtube account didn't get fried because I had a lot of Callihan on there.

[Laney]

There's no way that Sami will make my list. Yes, he had some very good matches on the indies that I enjoyed, but he also had a lot of matches that epitomized what I think is wrong with the indie scene today. He seemed to be one of those guys who had the mindset that the more highspots you put in a match, the better the match will be. He was also very liberal with his use of the "fighting spirit" comeback which was a major pet peeve of mine. Go watch Sami Callihan vs Davey Richards from PWG if you want to see exactly why he won't make my list.

[Phil Schneider]

You shouldn't blame anyone for a PWG Davey Richards match, that guy in that place does his thing, and everyone has to adjust

[W2BTD]

If you are Sami Callihan (or anybody else, for that matter) you can not go to PWG and do deliberate limb work or a 70's style Dory match or long focused periods of selling or anything aside from a fast paced, progressive, "can you top this" spot-a-thon. As stated, i'm not even a fan of Sami, but if he went to Reseda and worked a spot fest with Davey, then that should be a feather in his cap as a worker, not a downgrade, because he worked the exact style of match that fit what the promotion and the fans of the promotion want.

 

This speaks directly to my point from other threads that wrestling psychology is 100% context dependent, and one set of standards can not be applied like a blanket to all promotions, styles, or eras. Sami is obviously a guy who knows how to work multiple styles, including the GO GO GO PWG style, which is probably the fastest paced and most highspot centric style on earth (even more so than Dragon Gate, which gets an unfair rep for this sometimes). If he can slug it out with Finlay one night, trade holds in Europe the next, and keep pace with Davey in PWG the following weekend, to me that would be evidence that he's well rounded.

 

Curt Hawkins went to PWG for BOLA, and got booed out of the building for working WWE style. It took Trent Baretta months to adjust to the faster pace of the indies. Kevin Steen recently said on WWE.com that adapting to WWE style is easier for him than adapting to ROH style, where fans don;t settle for the same shit every time out or the same sequence of three babyface moves and always demand something new. Sami went to Reseda and did what Curt Hawkins couldn't, and what took Trent months to perfect.

[JerryvonKramer]

Not sure where to bring this up, but it's clear some people don't like PWG style. To what extent are people factoring in styles that they really don't like?

 

I was thinking about this before. If I was doing top 100 music artists or albums, I would totally no-sell jazz because it really isn't my thing. I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to more, because I just don't like it. Not sure what to do with that.

[ohtani's jacket]

At the risk of getting upset with Parv again about jazz, I think it's silly to force yourself to be that objective that you try to consider or represent styles you don't even like. I'm all for people broadening their horizons but there are limits. Let the fans of that particular style or worker push their case.

[JerryvonKramer]

I don't know if wrestling is different because it is less generically diverse, but ... well if someone has decided that rap is crap, I'm not going to try to sell them on Liquid Swords, even if I think it's one of the best albums of the 90s. It's just a non-starter.

 

But somehow it seems different with this, but I can't put my finger on why or how.

[concrete1992]

Fill in a "style bias" comment from Joe

[Dylan Waco]

Not all styles are created equal.

[Childs]

I don't think anyone is asking Phil to rank Davey Richards or Joe to rank Jerry Lawler or me to rank Manami Toyota. Vote your bliss, even if that means rejecting whole genres of wrestling.

[W2BTD]

My go to example for this type of discussion is always Masato Yoshino vs Bill Dundee. Those two guys just happen to be the two random completely opposite dudes I thought of the first time I brought up this point, so I've stuck with them.

 

My Yoshino/Dundee theory is this: I find it impossible, and also completely unfair, to compare them as performers, because what they are trying to accomplish in the ring and the psychology "rules" they are working under could not possibly be more different. So what is the point? All Yoshino/Dundee cases will always come down to (wait for it, Sam...) style bias. Whatever style you prefer is going to win out.

 

I suppose you could really get super in depth about things and try to sort out who is better at their particular style in relation to others in their respective styles, but i'm exhausted just thinking about attempting that, and honestly, style bias will still rear its head.

 

Conclusion? It is perfectly acceptable to no sell jazz if you think jazz sucks.

[W2BTD]

I don't think anyone is asking Phil to rank Davey Richards or Joe to rank Jerry Lawler or me to rank Manami Toyota. Vote your bliss, even if that means rejecting whole genres of wrestling.

 

Or, this.

 

Bingo.

[Laney]

I really don't see Sami Callihan as someone who is able to work multiple styles. Sure, he was able to hang in there with Finlay to put on a good match, I can give him credit there. However, his European work that I have seen is the same fast paced style as his American indie work. I will concede that this style of work is popular in both the European and American indies.

 

I am not completely against the fast-paced style and I completely agree that there is a differently psychology to it. However, I don't see Sami Callihan as being someone that grasps that psychology. Even though the style is more fast-paced and contains a lot of highspots, I feel that it should still follow the same basic concepts of storytelling. My opinion of Sami's work is that he poorly builds up to the climax point of the match and he holds the match at that climax for way too long with a seemingly endless run of nearfalls. It gets to the point where I am completely taken out of the match.

 

In my opinion there are far too many guys that work the same style in a way that is much better than Sami.

[Venegas]

If you are Sami Callihan (or anybody else, for that matter) you can not go to PWG and do deliberate limb work or a 70's style Dory match or long focused periods of selling or anything aside from a fast paced, progressive, "can you top this" spot-a-thon. As stated, i'm not even a fan of Sami, but if he went to Reseda and worked a spot fest with Davey, then that should be a feather in his cap as a worker, not a downgrade, because he worked the exact style of match that fit what the promotion and the fans of the promotion want.

 

This speaks directly to my point from other threads that wrestling psychology is 100% context dependent, and one set of standards can not be applied like a blanket to all promotions, styles, or eras. Sami is obviously a guy who knows how to work multiple styles, including the GO GO GO PWG style, which is probably the fastest paced and most highspot centric style on earth (even more so than Dragon Gate, which gets an unfair rep for this sometimes). If he can slug it out with Finlay one night, trade holds in Europe the next, and keep pace with Davey in PWG the following weekend, to me that would be evidence that he's well rounded.

 

How is that a good thing re: PWG having one style of wrestling? I actually think that's one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to indie wrestling. Why should an audience dictate the way you work your match? Why does every match have to look/feel the same? By the way, I think Ki/Danielson and Ki/Hero are two of the best matches in PWG history, and by the end of both they had the crowd going crazy by what? Logical narrative with meaningful work/selling where most transitions came from the mat? *gasp* and I know that's pre-Reseda PWG but point is if you're good enough, you can have any crowd adapt to your style, which is how it should be, not vice versa. Last comment on this, but didn't Finlay vs Kevin Steen receive a 'This Is Awesome' chant?

 

Re: Sami. I agree with Dylan in that anyone who was consisted the best wrestler in the world should get a look. Had an excellent series of matches that actually topped my MOTY lists two years in a row. There's a lot he can do from here to 2016, so I'll probably take a closer look at his spot on the list when/if he gets called up.

[BillThompson]

I actually don't think PWG has one style of wrestling. I generally love PWG, but I can't stand Davey Richards and that includes his PWG stuff.

[concrete1992]

How often does PWG deviate from its FAST PACED core generally though? That isn't a bad thing just think since 2013, maybe 2012 but not sure, they haven't really had too many cards full of too diverse of stuff.

[Venegas]

I actually don't think PWG has one style of wrestling. I generally love PWG, but I can't stand Davey Richards and that includes his PWG stuff.

I don't either. TJP vs Kyle O'Reilly was one of the best matches I've seen from anywhere on earth last year and it was very much a shoot style/Lucha mat based match with logical work. But, bush league/business exposing garbage like no selling and finisher spamming is going to be bush league/business exposing garbage no matter where it's done.

[W2BTD]

How often does PWG deviate from its FAST PACED core generally though? That isn't a bad thing just think since 2013, maybe 2012 but not sure, they haven't really had too many cards full of too diverse of stuff.

You can cherry pick like venegas is doing, but the simple answer is not very often. They run a few times per year, and have a locker room full of indie all stars who are actively attempting to one up each other.

 

It would be like trying to claim Dragon Gate is diverse because some of the big Dream & Twin gate matches are worked slower with more focused selling.

[Exposer]

Well, he was the best wrestler in the world a few years ago, so he has to be in consideration. He had a pretty hard hitting style in the indies, but he was also very good at putting matches together and carrying stiffs. He very likely won't make my list, but I can't rule him out completely.

[Phil Schneider]

Your Callihan Top 10 matches will be better then the top 10 matches of a lot of guys who make this list. He was really hurt by being put on the shelf for so long. I think he is at his best as an intense brawler. Here is my review of his 2008 Necro match which is one of my favs

 

Necro Butcher v. Sami Callihan IWA-MS 10/4

In most of your famous Necro matches he is a guy working from below, the crazy lunatic who takes a huge beating but is impossible to kill, and always has a punchers chance. Kind of dirty barefoot hillbilly Arturo Gatti. So it’s a cool reversal to see Necro as the unstoppable force and Callahan in the Necro Butcher role as the crazy brawler coming out like a buzzsaw and taking a huge beating. This is the equivalent of a short toe to toe boxing brawl, as both guys just go at each other with nasty shots, neither taking a backwards step. Callihan also did some cool counter wrestling, as he was working as almost a protégé v. mentor thing, guy who studied the master and knew his every move. Finish was perfect, as Callihan survived a lot, avoided a lot, but fell to the KO punch. Shockingly awesome match, and IWA-MS has delivered some great great stuff this year.

 

Here are my reviews of the Havoc v. Callihan Death match series

 

Danny Havok v. Sami Callihan - Devil Wears Prada Death Match 9/12/09

This was the start of their feud and a great way to start what I thought was the US Indy feud of the year. The gimmick was pretty amusing with purses hung on polls from the corners, and a board with high heeled shoes glued to it. The thing that really separates these guys from most death match dudes is that their brawling actually looks good. The best part of the match was when both guys were in the middle of the ring punching and headbutting each other. The high heel shoe board is a really cool idea, but I thought they used it too early in the match, it really should have been used closer to the finish and been a bigger deal. Havok does a sick blade job, which was old school bloody forehead style, rather then some weird gash in the side or arm like you often get in death matches. I dug the finish, both guys crawl for purses, Callihan gets a power drill out of onw, but gets cut off with hair spray to the eyes, and gets hit by Havok's finisher. Unfortunately that was preceded by a ladder and table bump which took way too long to set up and then got shrugged off. Post match really makes this match, Callihan pulls out his switchblade, unwraps Havok's tape and slits his wrist which causes the locker room to empty. It actually came off like a total crossing of the line, like Funk with the plastic bag or Shane Douglas shaking Pitbulls Halo, pretty impressive to get that kind of reaction in CZW of all places.

 

 

Sami Callihan v. Danny Havok- Caribbean Spider Net 10/25/09

This is the kind of death match I like, no good natured sportsmanship, no respect knucks. Just two guys who hate each other trying to kill each other. Callihan jumps him before the bell, and this is a heated nasty little fight. Callihan was my discovery of 08, and while he hasn’t had the opportunities he had in IWA, his death match run in CZW has been pretty great. Both guys take some grizzly bumps into the Spider Nets, although Havok totally wins the bump contest, by flying off the tope rope into some metal contraption with barbed wire and glass. Callihan was a real prick in this, throwing broken glass in Havok’s face and jamming it into his mouth. Finish was nasty as fuck with Sami hitting his headlock driver on a giant bundle of tubes. Bump of the show, and absolutely the right thing to end the match on.

 

Danny Havok v. Sami Callihan- Cage of Death 12/12/09

This was the crazy blowoff to the feud, and CZW has done a nice job of making this gimmick a big deal. Setup was nuts, with two sides yellow steel, two sides barbed wire at a 45 degree angle with plates of glass, and to top it off you have a scaffold with panes of glass and electrified barbed wire, with two panes of glasses hanged between the scaffold and the ring. A truly insane looking deal and by the end of the match the ring had more glass then mat, it looked like Hans Gruber ordered his men to shoot the windows. The match lived up to the craziness for sure. This was absent most of the flaws of US indy death match wrestling, it looked and felt like a fight rather then an exhibition of stunts. It had big bumps rather then shit like needles and syringes, and the biggest bump ended the match.

Too many nutty bumps to list, Callihan going off a scaffold, face first through a pain of glass looked like something out of a Jackie Chan post movie stunt montage. I did think it got formless near the end, as the five minutes or so before the finish you had both guys kind of diffidently exchanging headrops. It felt unnecessary and took me out of the match. Ending was pretty great, they go back on the scaffold with Callihan pulling his switchblade, Havok blocks the first stab but gets slashed and falcon arrowed off the scaffold through the hanging glass pains and a table to the ring. Completely nuts, and it didn't feel super set up like those kind of stunts often do. I am not sure where I place this on a list of their 2009 matches, as the stuff pre finish was the worst stuff they did against each other, but damn did this feel like the way you end a feud, give me a good COD match up next year and CZW has sold me a ticket.