Jump to content


Photo

Current New Japan


  • Please log in to reply
397 replies to this topic

#41 pol

pol
  • Members
  • 816 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:17 AM

My take on the fighting spirit spot is that if the idea is supposed to be clenching your fists and gutting it through the pain, then SELL IT LIKE THAT. I think it can be a fantastic spot when done well, but in current New Japan it's way overused, used at the wrong times, and not done well. The vast majority of the time it just looks like someone decided to arbitrarily pop up after a move, and reminds me that, oh yeah, the rest of the times they were selling moves by actually looking hurt, and so exhausted they couldn't get up? Well, they were just faking it. The one fighting spirit spot I remember liking in New Japan this year was Ishii standing up after Naito's missile dropkick in their February match, because it he sold it like he'd been knocked the fuck out and had stood up on pure instinct.

 

Since I fortunately just happened to watch this match after reading this thread, here's what I'd consider good execution of a fighting spirit spot (at least in terms of the mechanics of it; its placement within the match leaves something to be desired IMO).



#42 W2BTD

W2BTD
  • Members
  • 852 posts

Posted 29 October 2014 - 03:03 AM

Kota Ibushi at the end of the Nakamura match from the 2013 G1 is a great example of one, because it was at the end of the match when he knew he was toast, and he used his last bit of energy to basically say to Nak "I know i'm going to lose this, but i'm making you kill me fucking dead first". One more Boma Ye, done. To me that one spot took that match from very good to a great MOTY contender.

 

That's the thing about a lot of fighting spirit spots. They usually lead to the guy doing it getting immediately KO'd again anyway, or delivering a desperation move and then selling the damage. Very rarely if ever do you see a fighting spirit spot where the guy just takes over on offense like a transition move. 



#43 stomperspc

stomperspc
  • Members
  • 474 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 October 2014 - 08:41 AM

I don't believe "Fighting spirit spots" aren't inherently bad or anything.  Very little in wrestling is inherently good or bad.  Context and execution determine whether it is good or bad.  I just watched the CIMA/LIger Super J-Cup 2000 final and CIMA has a couple one count kickouts later in the match that are treated as fighting spirit spots.  Contextually, both work because they don't come after really huge moves and they fit into the story of CIMA as the young upstart.  Execution wise, CIMA's mannerisms and facial expressions sell the idea that he is still hurt but he's not going to go down that easily.  On the second one, he doesn't really even make it to his feet.  He kicks out early, gets on his knees, and gives a "bring it!" vibe with his mannerisms, but is still selling an entire match worth of damage.  That was effective because the context it was used in was right and the execution was good.

 

I think they main issue is fighting spirit spots like kicking out at one late in a match or popping up after a big move, is that they are used too often.  They are used in matches and places in matches where they don't really fit.  They are also used too much to the point of losing their uniqueness.  It is hard to get excited for Ibushi popping up against Nakamura when mid-carders in NOAH or wherever are doing the same thing on a regular basis.  It is too much and no longer a special trick to get across a story line point.  It is now just a lazy way to try to get a reaction late in the match.  "Try" being the operative word because I've seen plenty of times where the crowd reacts much better to traditional near falls in a certain match than they do to the fighting spirit spots in the same match.



#44 FedEx227

FedEx227
  • Members
  • 204 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oak Park, IL

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:18 AM

Maybe I missed them but what 2014 mid-card New Japan matches featured guys kicking out at 1 late in the match? 



#45 GOTNW

GOTNW

    save all japan pro wrestling

  • Members
  • 1888 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Croatia

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:24 AM

It's a trope in Shibata matches and Ibushi did it one time a year ago. That's it.

#46 dawho5

dawho5
  • Members
  • 2500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Dakota

Posted 31 October 2014 - 10:39 AM

Shibata is great, but he does have a lot of stuff that seems to creep up in every match that bothers me.  It seems like he wrestles one out of two matches.  Either he's up against a guy who is willing to bang and that's the match or he goes with the matwork on the less strike-oriented guys, then works into his big strikes.



#47 pol

pol
  • Members
  • 816 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2014 - 03:51 PM

Thoughts on Power Struggle?

 

I thought Liger/Owens was a really impressive carry job. Hopefully Liger's run with the NWA Jr. belt isn't just him taking on whatever stiffs Tharpe can provide. Liger proved in his BOSJ matches, especially the one with KUSHIDA, that he can still go out and have excellent matches.

 

I enjoyed the Jr. Heavy tag quite a bit. I wish reDRagon would focus more on the striking and submission part of their act and less on the spotty stuff. I'm not typically a stickler for this kind of thing, but the go-nowhere arm work bugged me here. KUSHIDA has been given two title reigns this year and still feels like a top two candidate for WON most underrated. That said, he's probably better off getting out of the Junior tag division since there's an expectation of delivering the kind of match that doesn't play to his strengths as a worker.

 

I remember Bix referring to later BattlARTS as a "spotfest of potato shots" and I can't think of a better way to describe Ishii/Goto, though obviously the potatoing was a lot tamer than the stuff Bix was referring to. Pretty much no narrative, just two guys crashing into each other for close to 20 minutes. I have to admit I now go into this stuff wanting to hate it because of how much shit I've taken elsewhere for being a detractor of this style, but the sheer intensity and the incredible crowd ended up winning me over. Ishii coughing and spluttering up blood everywhere was such a great visual. That said, this now has a really good shot at being the WON MOTY and that seems insane to me. It was a very good spotfest but it was still pretty much just a spotfest.

 

AJ/Yoshitatsu kinda sucked and Yoshi looks like a dork in that 80s babyface attire. Yet another guy almost kills themselves taking the Styles Clash.

 

Shibata/Nakamura was disappointing. They ran through their usual stuff and just when you think they're about to kick it up a notch and go into the next act it ended. It would be nice to see a pure mat-based match from these two since I believe they can both work the style, but it's unlikely we'd ever get that.

 

Overall a very enjoyable show. They did a great job building to the Dome and now almost everything for that card is in place.



#48 fxnj

fxnj
  • Members
  • 471 posts

Posted 09 November 2014 - 07:41 PM

No way was Ligers/Owens a "carry job." I've seen Owens wrestle for my local promotion and he's clearly a talented guy who's worked really hard to get the opportunity for that match. Agreed on it being a really good match, though.

#49 pol

pol
  • Members
  • 816 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 November 2014 - 07:47 PM

Yeah I probably shouldn't be so quick to assume that. I did think he looked pretty good at times; I liked his wobbly legged deal after getting the knees up for Liger's splash. His forearms really sucked though.



#50 Steenalized

Steenalized
  • Members
  • 835 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bloomington, IL

Posted 09 November 2014 - 10:55 PM

I'm halfway through the show right now (up to AJ-Yoshitatsu). Not bad but not particularly good thus far. ReDRagon vs. Time Splitters is easily the high light so far though if I were to star rate it I'd say maybe ***, probably less. 



#51 hammerva

hammerva
  • Members
  • 1698 posts

Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:03 PM

What was Meltzer talking about on the Saturday show when he mentioned something of a New Japan on demand stream/channel?    I mean that does sound incredible



#52 NintendoLogic

NintendoLogic

    Grim and frostbitten

  • Members
  • 2661 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2014 - 11:41 PM

I just saw Ishii/Goto. I lost almost as many brain cells watching it as Ishii and Goto did participating in it.



#53 stomperspc

stomperspc
  • Members
  • 474 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2014 - 12:17 PM

What was Meltzer talking about on the Saturday show when he mentioned something of a New Japan on demand stream/channel?    I mean that does sound incredible

 

They showed an ad for this during the iPPV on Saturday.  Given that New Japan is working with TV Asahi on it and they have referred to it as a service, the prevailing thought is it is some sort of streaming service.  The fact that it is a .com address and not a .jp (along with "world" being part of the title) would seem to indicate it is a worldwide thing as well.

 

TV Asahi has a pretty extensive VOD service (available in Japan) only so they could be porting that over to the new site and making it available worldwide.  Asahi also airs the traditional PPV's and streams them on their website, so I'd imagine if nothing else this will be a replacement for U-Stream.  Supposed to be officially announced 12/1.  



#54 Mini Bennett

Mini Bennett
  • Members
  • 223 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:06 PM

So, Jim Ross is calling Wrestle Kingdom in January. Please tell me I'm not the only one pumped for this?

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=2WoNFO6furg

#55 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5078 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:22 PM

After listening to his podcast on only a few occasions, I actually have zero interest in hearing Ross call NJPW.  Doesn't seem to be a fan, and I'd much prefer the Japanese call.



#56 Coffey

Coffey

    @Skelemania

  • Members
  • 3793 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:56 PM

I'm glad for Jim Ross for two reasons:

 

1. He's a great play-by-play guy.

2. It means the show is in English.

 

Nothing else really matters to me about it other than that.

 

Although maybe it should be a drinking game where you take a drink everytime he mispronounces someones name!



#57 EvenStevenBooking

EvenStevenBooking
  • Banned
  • 76 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:11 PM

Ross was ready to be put out to pasture about 6 years before he did. People crying for him back were the same bitching about how awful he got later on. Maybe a different product will revitalize him? I doubt it considering how awful he is on his podcast.



#58 Mini Bennett

Mini Bennett
  • Members
  • 223 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:04 PM

I think Jim Ross was still decent at the end of his run, and was disappointed they brought Jerry Lawler back after his heart attack. JR deserves some kind of award (or at least a cuddle) for keeping modern Michael Cole focused during a broadcast and if his recent boxing commentary is a reflection of what to expect for New Japan then I'm actviely excited for him being in Tokyo. My only hope now is that we get Nigel McGuinness doing color.

I'm not exactly sure how a podcast relates to announcing... evidently it doesn't, actually.

#59 Coffey

Coffey

    @Skelemania

  • Members
  • 3793 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:31 PM

I personally definitely do not want Nigel doing color. Nor Don West that some on DVDVR suggested.

 

Can JR do it solo? If we have to have a color guy, I would say Foley. Cactus worked in Japan although not sure if he has knowledge of current NJPW.



#60 Jesse Ewiak

Jesse Ewiak
  • Members
  • 492 posts

Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:29 PM

I realize Tenay's a joke now due to TNA, but I think him as JR's repository of all the info about the Japanese guys while JR tells the story could work pretty well. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users