MoS Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 This was discussed in the Bruno thread over at GWE, but I thought this was interesting enough to warrant a thread of its own. Meltzer, writing about Steve Austin's failed heel turn in 2001, said that Austin was more like Bruno, and there was a reason Bruno never turned heel. My question is, what exactly is the difference between the two and their connection with the crowd? Parv talked about Bruno being more earthy, but, I am not sure that is true. Hogan was presented as a larger-than-life superstar. Bruno was presented as a larger-than-life superstar, although not as cartoonish. So, how did Bruno get more earthy? Was it because of his understated promos? I confess I am not an expert on either 80s wrestling, or wrestling during Bruno's era, so I am hoping people come up and talk about it. Also, on a scale of 1 to 100, how much would you give the two in terms of connection with the audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm not familiar with Bruno at all, but when Hogan was a face his character sometimes came off as arrogant and delusional in interviews. The four demandments of Hulkamania? He sounded like he wanted kids to worship him. Sometimes the booking even made him out to be a jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I have always felt the reason Ultimate Warrior did not work out as a draw was his presentation, which was downright cult-like. It was kind of creepy, especially for someone who was supposed to be kid-friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lust Hogan Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 For me Bruno came off as more relateable and a hard worker. Hogan was presented as someone to be in awe of. Bruno = Rocky Hogan = Drago or Thunderlips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Bruno came across as genuine. Kinda like Austin did in a way. Both guys came across as blue collar guys who you could shoot the shit with. Hogan was a larger than life kinda guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yeah, to sum it up in a word, they were more relateable. Bruno and Austin were larger than life too, but they were larger than life fascimilies of real people, whereas Hogan was a larger than life cartoon superhero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Who would you put as closest to Hogan? I'd see Dusty as another larger-than-life everyman. Flair was more like Hogan, but not a cartoonish super hero. Ultimate Warrior probably is the best I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Undertaker was my first thought. Not sure about being close to Hogan, but he's a cartoon not a real person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 My question is, what exactly is the difference between the two and their connection with the crowd? Parv talked about Bruno being more earthy, but, I am not sure that is true. Hogan was presented as a larger-than-life superstar. Bruno was presented as a larger-than-life superstar, although not as cartoonish. So, how did Bruno get more earthy? Was it because of his understated promos? I've uploaded this promo from Bruno. You tell me. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Hulk Hogan was a jingoistic flag waving asshole who talked about God, acted like a dick toward his friends, used dirty underhanded tactics while pretending "fighting for what is right", which infact was only his own best interests, and was a total whining bitch when he didn't get his way. So yeah, no wonder he connected wonderfully during the Reagan era. Basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Savage comes to mind as a real-life cartoon. I mean, wacky clothes, wacky voice, wacky facial expressions. I'm not saying he didn't come off as human at times, but man, there are horses of different colors, but Macho was like a horse from a different planet (The moon? The stars? Venus?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Savage comes to mind as a real-life cartoon. I mean, wacky clothes, wacky voice, wacky facial expressions. I'm not saying he didn't come off as human at times, but man, there are horses of different colors, but Macho was like a horse from a different planet (The moon? The stars? Venus?). SOUTH OF MARS AND NORTH OF HELL, OOH YEAH. I think Savage, despite how over-the-top he was, still managed to come off as authentic. He really did seem like a guy who was just that crazy, instead of a guy trying to act crazy. That Bruno promo is one of the greatest money babyface promos I've ever seen. It's on the same level as "That's hard times" and Eric Embry before the final showdown with PY Chu-Hi (and let me just say how proud I am that I was able to compare Bruno Sammartino with Eric Embry--but man, Eric's promo was great). In many ways Bruno is a far more ideal representation of the "American Dream" than Hogan--the quintessential turn-of-the-century immigration story. That's a lot more relatable to us grown-ups and even more relatable to the generations before us than Hogan, who came off as a guy carved from granite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Nah Savage was definitely a cartoon character. I was just about to come in here and mention his name. I don't think it's about authenticity, plenty of guys with outlandish characters can make them believable. It's about being able to relate it to the real world. Think about it like this. Could X be walking down the street, as he is? Could his character exist in the real world as you know it as a real person? Bruno WAS an Italian immigrant living in the North-East making his way. He just happened to be doing it as a pro wrestler. Bruno could have been working in a factory or a wharf or some shit in a different life. He's real. Austin WAS a redneck who liked beer and worked for a shitty corporate boss. He just happened to be working as a pro wrestler. Whereas someone like Hogan doesn't exist as a person in real life. There aren't people in real life who get jacked up, wear bright colours, go on crazy rants and want to save the children and defend America. That's a guy that exists only in movies, and wrestling. He's a total character, an invention. Same with Savage. Savage as he was in wrestling couldn't just walk down the street and be in the real world. He'd be a freakshow. The look, the attitude, the character, the promos, it's all from another world. That's not to say that Savage couldn't make it believable, or that he didn't have relateable moments. His retirement arc was definitely that. But Hogan had them too. So did Undertaker frankly. It's just a general comment about their characters. None of this is a bad thing, by the way. Not everyone has to be relateable, it depends on the character. You need everyman characters just the same as you need cartoonish ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 That Bruno promo is astonishingly good. He had me fired up to see the match so he could get his revenge. Compare to this promo from Hogan, 10/16/95, that I just happened to see today. He's not even Hogan here - he's a cartoon of someone parodying Hogan. http://youtu.be/hyMxmcf-4z0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Even today when you here a current Bruno interview on Observer Radio or for the upcoming Ivan Koloff Doc he resonates to you. You hear Hogan do an interview you know he's full of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 We have covered the Bruno vs. Larry feud pretty comprehensively on Titans, as well as discussed Bruno at length. Kelly did a fantastic job of editing together all of our bits on Bruno (and Larry) in one show with a new (legit amazing) intro. If you have a genuine interest in Bruno, this would be the show for you:https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/bruno-vs-larry Listening back to it also reminded me just how many fantastic promos Bruno gives us during that feud. I might slip some more of them onto Youtube if I have time and there is interest. The "empty arena" interview he gives just before the one I posted is amazing. People really need to see some of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Just finished the feud podcast ep this morning, and I'd love to see anything you want to share! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 I think there's a real distinction between Macho Man Savage and Macho King Savage, personally. I don't think the Macho King could walk down the street, but the Macho Man could be a pro athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 yea, i'd say randy savage came off more ridiculous in the 80s than he would today. definitely agree with matt's comment - how out of place would he be in a world with terrell owens & chad johnson & clinton portis? hell, portis used to do a bunch of wrestling-style gimmicks for his press conferences! Bro Sweets & Sheriff Gonnagetcha say hi... EDIT: or hey, there's that MMA guy who re-enacted the shockmaster debut for his weigh-in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Even before Savage you had guys like Frenchy Fuqua, Lester Hayes, Mel Hall, and Hawk Harrelson running around. Ochocinco and TO didn't invent the ostentatious pro athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 For all the larger than life characters I've seen do promos, Sammartino's promos blow most of them out of the water. He comes across as such a working class guy who is really passionate about what he does. Not saying something like Terry Funk freaking out and hitting himself with a chair isn't also great, but I really like the way Bruno goes about it. I especially like how you can see him getting angrier and more fired up the more he talks. Great, great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Just in case anyone is wondering if they missed something, Best of Titans of Wrestling Volume 2 has been released ("unofficially") before Volume 1. Hell, Volume 1 hasn't even been put together yet. Look for the official releases of both volumes in the coming weeks on PTBN. And yeah, Bruno was a fucking awesome promo. One of the best ever. The Bruno-Larry feud with the turn angle, promos and matches all together is epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Even before Savage you had guys like Frenchy Fuqua, Lester Hayes, Mel Hall, and Hawk Harrelson running around. Ochocinco and TO didn't invent the ostentatious pro athlete. fair enough, i'm thinking more about media coverage these days and how it focuses on those types. though maybe even that isn't as big a change as this midwesterner wants to believe it is... i will say that when i moved from the cleveland & columbus areas to san diego, i noticed the sports talk radio and such out here feel way more "hollywood" in the subject matter they tend to focus on. i mean shit, the browns guy for my hometown paper probably still doesn't know what twitter is - he had an unintentionally hilarious rant in the 2000s on how he & his friends had never heard of U2. so maybe i got a skewed picture my whole life, dunno anyway, apologies for the derail! to get more on-topic, i think the image of "working class" has changed some nowadays. you don't necessarily have to be big or rugged or an immigrant for younger generations to view you that way. i would say daniel bryan is definitely relatable in that way even if he looks silly to some on this board. i've known plenty of geeky dudes with giant beards (surprisingly popular look) struggling to find a job or get into grad school or whatever, so bryan naturally struck me as that type of character making it big. the modern job market & educational system have created a new underclass of sorts, so that's going to change the presentation of this kind of stuff i think. hopefully that made some kind of sense, i really need to get to bed holy crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 That was an excellent promo, Parv. Thanks for uploading it. It sort of explains a lot. Bruno was larger than life, but as Matt said, he was still presented as a human being, not a wrestling God/cartoon character like Savage. He was not flashy, but he had charisma all right. Will definitely give the podcast a listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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