Randy Orton

[DMJ]

He's that rock band that has sold millions of records...but I don't know a single person who owns one.

 

He's also the rock band that other rock bands seem to think is great, while the rest of us scratch our heads and don't think its anything special.

[JerryvonKramer]

Well he's got Ric Flair's vote.

[Dylan Waco]

All the old timers love Orton for obvious reasons

[JerryvonKramer]

Can you run me through what they are?

 

Bret and Flair seemed to think he has "his character down" and a star presence.

[Dylan Waco]

He's a 3rd generation wrestler and a lot of people respect his dad and grandad and see Orton as keeper of tradition flame.

[JerryvonKramer]

One thing they did say is that he's better on house shows than on TV.

[Dylan Waco]

I've seen him on house shows. He's not any different. Very capable of having good matches, but not particularly engaging at all.

[Jimmy Redman]

Yeah, of all the things to say about him that seems the most inaccurate on the surface, in fact it seems if anything the opposite would be true. He's much more of a "TV wrestler" because he is so well practiced in hitting all the camera angles and close ups and overt mannerisms that come with working modern day WWE TV.

[Grimmas]

I've seen him on house shows. He's not any different. Very capable of having good matches, but not particularly engaging at all.

This is why I don't see a difference between Tanahashi and Orton in ring. Put Orton in Tanahashi's spot and the match quality would be the same.

[GOTNW]

Being compared to Tanahashi isn't exactly flattering.

[Timbo Slice]

If there were only wrestlers and not journalists that voted in the WON poll, he would already be in.

 

There are definitely some good spots with Orton, but way too much in the doldrums. Can't see him.

[dedhemingway]

I honestly think that Orton is severely underrated online, but I can completely understand why people would find him 'boring'. I don't, I think he's one of the smoothest and most athletic guys going today. His timing is impeccable, as well. Yeah, the thrashing the mat thing is beyond dumb, and he's never really worked as 'the guy', but I don't think he's anywhere close to as bad as people tend to act like he is.

 

Then again, I probably won't have him in my Top 100, and I couldn't name you any great matches off the top of my head, so I'm not sure any of that matters.

[JRGoldman]

I think others have made this same point perhaps more eloquently, but Orton manages to have every quality that makes for a successful performer but has never had a run where one isn't lacking in some major way. When he has been good as a character (the IED heel comes to mind) his matches have been overwrought and boring. When he has a good in ring run, it's often with nothing at stake. Went through a stretch of terrible injury luck that undercut him a bunch. Probably gets the most unified live reactions in WWE but has never really been a draw. I don't mind him as much as some others I guess, but I think he's the very definition of the sum being less than the parts.

[Wade Garrett]

If he came across more natural and less robotic in his performances then I'd say he may have a shot. He performs to much and doesn't work. Though he is far from the only one. If you can actually act then performing a match will get ya by. But if ya can't act then you better know how to work.

[Jimmy Redman]

Orton is going on my list. In the Problematic WWE Guys department, I have him above guys like Hunter, Angle, Edge. Orton has never outright offended me the way those guys have. I just find him boring a lot of the time. But at the same time, he has his good periods as well, and those periods are full of lots of good stuff and get him a good spot on my list.

 

2003-04 was Legend Killer Orton. Even though this was his first significant run, I actually think this run was where he was the most well-rounded wrestler, in terms of character, charisma, promos and ring work all coming together. Since then he's always seemed to lack at least one of them. He was perfect as the cocky young stud, who all the ladies wanted to fuck and all the guys wanted to beat the fuck out of. He cut good promos, and showed real emotion in doing so. He was great in the ring in this period too - he already had the ability to bump his ass off, and not just that but also sell really well too. He made faces look like a million bucks, and then also had some nice offense, and always had the RKO - the RKO was great in this period because he'd bump and sell and they'd build these big finishing stretches and just when you think someone would beat him BAM, RKO, get fucked. It's a great finish.

 

He was also working on Raw in 2004 which was a goldmine for great TV matches, so there's a lot of volume there. Basically anything from 2004 is worth watching, from Evolution 6-mans or tag matches, to long top of the hour midcard matches, to long main events.

 

His best matches from this period include:

 

vs Foley, Backlash 2004

vs Edge, Vengeance 2004 (plus the Raw rematch)

vs Benoit, Summerslam 2004 (plus the Raw rematch)

 

2005-06 was his first Smackdown run. He was OK during this period, he worked as an upper-midcard heel quite well without really knocking the door down. Match-wise there's not much to his 2005 aside from the Undertaker matches (which I quite like, particularly the Mania match), but when 2006 comes he's involved in a lot more good stuff.

 

vs Benoit, Smackdown 13.1.06 (Best of Seven final - Orton subbed for Booker for the final three matches)

vs Benoit, Smackdown 27.1.06 (No Holds Barred)

vs Rey, Smackdown 7.4.06 (For those of us talking about Orton not being able to garner heat, watch this one)

vs Angle, ECW ONS 2006

 

2007 is when he starts to put things together in the ring a lot more. He was really good that year, more on a micro level than in having a list of awesome matches. But the things he brings to his matches are really good. Him trying to carry Lashley on ECW, or his awesome headlock work at Summerslam (no, really), or starting to punt guys into oblivion, or the proto-Viper expressions in the Hunter match...the little details are adding up. He and Edge were a good working team while they were together, and the Cena feud with the dad punting and what not was really good. I'm curious to revisit his late 2007 work while WWE Champ, particularly the Shawn matches, since I don't remember much about those.

 

Best matches from this period:

 

w/ Edge vs DX, NYR 2007

vs Cena, Summerslam 2007

vs Hunter, No Mercy 2007 (Last Man Standing)

 

Early 2008 continues on, he has that super mini feud with Jeff Hardy, and I do really like the NWO 2008 match vs Cena, it's good stuff and the finish to that match is glorious and I love it and I've lost my shit every time someone has used it since. After that he gets bogged down into a million Hunter matches and then gets injured.

 

This injury is actually one of his highlights, because it was when he'd appear on Raw wearing actual clothes and cut these great promos on everyone, from Cody and Ted to the main eventers. This is where he recruited Legacy, and he comes off like a star whenever he's around (at a time when he still didn't always feel like a main event guy). He almost lost something when he actually came back to wrestle and the specialness was gone, but very soon after that he punted Vince and became Psycho Orton. He got screwed by the booking here, and had another million matches with Hunter, but as a character it was his best work in a while.

 

I really like the Cena feud in 2009. I love the I Quit, some people find it goofy but for me it's just the right kind of goofy. It's that overly symbolic, overly stylized good vs evil kind of match that Cena specialises in. And I also love the Ironman match, they fill the space amazingly well and add all sorts into it. That Ted Jr. "match" I spoke about recently is also a good indication of what Orton was capable of in this period. At the end of it there's a look he gives the crowd at the moment when he realises that the resistance is over, and it is just amazing, one of the single best looks I've seen anyone give in a ring. Bald Viper Orton is incredibly goofy, but also incredibly expressive and I find it effective and very pro wrestling.

 

2010 is an absolute black hole of boredom when it comes to Orton.

 

2011 is probably his single best year in terms of output of quality matches. It's a big reason why I'm putting him as high as I am. I loved him in 2011. During the brand split nothing tickled me quite like a guy going to Smackdown and reinventing himself as a TV workrate machine, and that's what Orton did in 2011. He was a bland babyface and cut monotonous Orton Voice promos, but who cares because I had my workrate. He had great PPV matches with Punk, Christian and Henry, and great TV matches with all sorts of people - Dolph, Cody, Ted, Punk, Christian, Barrett, Sheamus, even David Otunga.

 

That Otunga match is so amazing, by the way - a Christmas themed Street Fight that had Orton throwing ornaments and boxes at Otunga's head and cackling, which is so far away from what Orton is usually like. It was so much fun seeing Orton act...human. I recommend everyone watch this match, just in general, it's great.

 

The Christian feud is essential from this period. I recommend watching their whole feud in order to really see all of the counters and stories from previous matches that they weave into it. It's a great match-to-match feud. These are the matches, the bolded ones are the highlights:

 

Smackdown 6.5.11

Over the Limit 2011

Capitol Punishment 2011

Money in the Bank 2011

Summerslam 2011 (No Holds Barred)

Smackdown 30.8.11 (Cage)

 

I think Orton from 2012 to the present is his longest period of being boring so far. He's just been on TV and overexposed for so long that it's so hard to care about anything he does anymore. BUT there's still been some good stuff along the way. The Bryan feud of mid-2013 is great, as are their other big matches on Raw - Dec 2013 and Feb 2014. Orton was a good babyface trios member in a lot of Shield tags. I'm sure he had a PPV match with Dolph in 2012 and they always work well together.

 

But the main match I want to mention from this period is a match he had vs Big Show on Smackdown, September 2012. Orton was still a face here, and had a rib injury going in that Show worked over. Orton garnering heat with sympathetic selling is, again, so far away from what we usually see from him that is is incredibly compelling. I'd recommend it to anyone who thinks that Orton doesn't have that kind of range in him.

 

I've been waffling on forever now and I don't really have much of a conclusion. Just to say that despite my current boredom with him that extends all the way back to 2012, Orton has done a LOT of good work over the years, and has shown himself to be capable of a lot of different styles of match and roles, which is often forgotten due to him coming off as such a robot so much of the time. He's had great matches as a heel, as a face, in tags, in multi-man clusterfucks, he's had great wild brawls, gimmick matches, PPV main events, TV midcard matches, ace vs midcarder matches, matches based on selling, matches based on counters and cool shit, matches based on the story...the works.

[NotJayTabb]

Looking back over this thread, and there wasn't a lot of love for Randy Orton for GWE16, a guy who I ended up putting somewhere in the mid-50s. I think he might rank even higher for me now, he's just a remarkably consistent professional wrestler, who is also capable of some real highs. Things like his 2011, where he had a great series with Christian before selflessly getting dominated by Hall of Pain Mark Henry to kick off Henry's title run. Like 2013, where he had a great series of matches with Daniel Bryan where he really amped up his vicious side and was one of Bryan's best opponents during his WWE career. Even a few years back, when he was booked in a HIAC match with Jeff Hardy that no-one was really excited about, but ended up being really gnarly and having that memorable moment when he contorted Jeff's extended earlobes with a screwdriver. He's not got many lows in ring (bar any time he feuded with Bray Wyatt, but the list of talented people dragged down to Wyatt's level is huge), and he's still putting in good work to this day - the Lashley match the other week was very good. 

[KawadaSmile]

While the feuds with Bray Wyatt were pretty damn bad, I think their tag together was surprisingly good. In fact, his tag work over some recent years is very good. His weaknesses are hidden, and his strengths accentuated on those matches.

Surprisingly over considering how effortlessly he seems to be doing his work, too.

 

[Makai Club #1]

Randy Orton is a tricky one as his career fluctuates with the wind. He can go through the motions, be one of the most dry, uninspiring wrestlers on the roster for years and years but he can switch a light and turn into a sea of life, capable of the most compelling matches in WWE. One series of matches of Orton’s that stands out to me are the Benoit matches. Whether it’s the Summerslam 04/Raw The Next Day set or the 05/06 series, most of them are either excellent or solid at the very least. And I feel it’s a very underrated feud of Orton’s. Everyone picks out the Bryan feud or the Christian feud. But despite the many great matches that he has on his resume, there is still that void of nothingness that hurts him. So he’s not a surefire #1 candidate but maybe in the 60-80 bracket? 

[El-P]

In a perfect world, Randy Orton is one I would absolutely need to get into with fresh eyes and brain. In a perfect world...

[Stiva]

My longstanding view on Orton is that he’s been in a lot of great matches but I don’t think he’s ever been the best man in those matches. I can’t see that viewpoint changing even with re-evaluation. Maybe he was the best man in those matches with RVD, they always had a weird chemistry.

[Tetsujin]

Honestly, right now this fella is closer to make my list than not, and that's crazy to me. Underrated consistency and has the great matches. Pretty god dam good at his peak. Great heel but also underrated babyface. Amazing execution of all his spots (GOAT powerslam, the worked stomps, the punt kick, obviously the RKO is one of the best finishers of all time, that weird backbreaker he does sometimes, etc). His character work in most of his big matches and rivalries is cool. Also, I've always found fascinating the prestige he receives from other wrestlers, they often call him one of the best to work with. Definitely a contender for my list, yeah.

[El McKell]

Made my list last time, dunno if I’ll fit him in this time, he has had the all time bad feud with Bray Wyatt since the last poll.

 

But he does have great execution of moves, he does have great matches including the best singles matches in the careers of Mark Henry, Christian & Kane.

[Reel]

He had good TV matches with Ali in 2018 that I liked a lot. I don't know if I'd vote for him, but he's gonna have a ton of good to great matches by the time he retires.

[cad]

I dunno, I feel like he's way behind Fuerza Guerrera, and that's just comparing him within his own subset of workers who are known for their insincere offers of handshakes.

[Grimmas]

I honestly think if Orton went to NJPW or AEW he'd be considered among the all time greats. However, we have what we have and I can't enjoy him based on that.