BillThompson Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Listening to Live Audio Wrestling today and I don't think I've ever disagreed more with Meltzer on the potential of two wrestlers than I do when it comes to his take on Charlotte and Sasha Banks. I get that they're women wrestlers in North America employed by the WWE, so most don't care. However, I'm high on both of them, although I think it's clear as day that Sasha is the far better worker and has firmly established herself as the best female worker in the world currently. She's the complete package with far more upside still to come in the ring. That's not a knock on Charlotte, who I think is pretty good but extremely raw and more a talented athlete than a talented worker. I think she's slowly learning how to be a better worker and has become darn good. Meltzer feels the exact opposite is true, and try as I might I just can't see it. I agree with him that Charlotte will be the face of the women's division moving forward and has more money making potential, but neither of those elements really matter to me. It's not like Meltzer is the end all and be all when it comes to evaluating talent, but when it comes to the respective potential (talent wise) of Charlotte and Sasha I think Dave is stuck in a bizarro world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 How is Banks on the mic? She looks great in the ring, but between her size, athleticism and looks, on top of work, it doesn't at all strike me as a stretch to imagine her being a focal point of the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Meltzer is also working off the basis of the AJW golden era in the 90s, where Manami Toyota became his favorite female worker of all time, and he's always been a fan of the uptempo style that Toyota championed. I'm going to assume that because he's not seeing work of that caliber that he's not exactly gonna jump on that wagon with Charlotte or Sasha, regardless of how good they are now and could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Bill, you make this sound like less of a debatable topic than it actually is. From what I have seen I have Charlotte easily above Sasha. Via chops alone really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I just don't see it with Charlotte. She's talented, she's still super green but honestly I see her as someone who will leave a lot of talent at the door because she worries too much about athleticism. Whereas Sasha has athleticism but focuses more on the other aspects of her game and is already great (best in the world even) with more room for improvement. In terms of selling, bumping, application of athleticism, putting a match together, in-ring character, and any category you can think of outside of pure athleticism I think Sasha is leagues better than Charlotte and always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sasha was a horrible talker last time I watched NXT. Like, unbelievably bad. Charlotte too, actually. Has that changed in either case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sasha is the best talker in NXT besides Zayn and Enzo. She's better at just about everything compared to Charlotte who will only get a push cause she's Ric's daughter and is tall and athletic. It makes sense I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think Charlotte has looked outstanding the handful of times I've seen her. It's a Kerry Von Erich/Dustin Rhodes situation where she got in on nepotism but stayed in on merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Personally I don't see why it's an either or situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I know it's the cliche answer, but of course Dave is pushing Flair's daughter over Sasha or anyone else. I'm pretty much of the Sasha is better now/Charlotte has high upside (though that doesn't mean she has more than Sasha) opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sasha was a horrible talker last time I watched NXT. Like, unbelievably bad. Charlotte too, actually. Has that changed in either case?Sasha has gotten to be a better talker but there's times where she sounds like she's reading off a script. Not Bella Twins bad but still bad at times. But on the flip side, you see doses her character really being good. She's got the whole reality show crazy ratchet girl persona going and she needs more time allowing her to be a natural heel. With Charlotte, she's ok but she doesn't really get opportunities to talk. I'm with Bill on this one as Sasha is more complete for what the main roster looks for in the Divas division and she's really become a little ring general the last year or so. Like I'm never bored when she's leading the match and I can't say the same for Charlotte. It's funny that Manami Toyota was mention cause according to her Twitter, Sasha is a Akira Hokuto fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Wasn't Sasha working indies prior to going to NXT? She seems to be really solid in the ring and as stated her promos are getting better but still have room to grow. I think what gets Dave and others to go so nuts over Charlotte is that she's gotten to be really good in a very short period of time. It kind of reminds me how The Giant didn't look out of place main eventing PPVs against Hulk Hogan in his second or third match ever. The sense of "if she's this good now, in a few years she could be the best EVER!" seem to take over people's minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codysseus Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think what gets Dave and others to go so nuts over Charlotte is that she's gotten to be really good in a very short period of time. It kind of reminds me how The Giant didn't look out of place main eventing PPVs against Hulk Hogan in his second or third match ever. The sense of "if she's this good now, in a few years she could be the best EVER!" seem to take over people's minds. I think you're right. Charlotte has improved pretty drastically in a short period of time. But to answer the OP, I agree. I think Sasha's much better. One thing that sets her apart from Charlotte is her offense. My favorite Charlotte matches (vs Natalya, vs Sasha) so far have her working as a face, or at least not dominating for any extended period of time. There's still something missing for Charlotte when she's on top for a while. But Sasha has great, creative offense and seems much more comfortable in that dominant heel role. I'm hoping that we get a real Sasha/Bayley feud at some point. I think Bayley's as good of a babyface as the WWE has, man or woman, so having a major program between the two would probably be pretty durn fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Personally I don't see why it's an either or situation. I'm not really arguing for that, as I happen to like Charlotte and think she's really good. But, it's kind of like how even though I liked Johnny B Badd in 1995 and thought he was really good I wouldn't take him over Brian Pillman or watch the two of them and think Badd was more the all world talent just because at that stage he came across as more athletically gifted in the ring, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'd use Angle as an example instead of the Big Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Personally I don't see why it's an either or situation. I'm not really arguing for that, as I happen to like Charlotte and think she's really good. But, it's kind of like how even though I liked Johnny B Badd in 1995 and thought he was really good I wouldn't take him over Brian Pillman or watch the two of them and think Badd was more the all world talent just because at that stage he came across as more athletically gifted in the ring, I get that . I was thinking more that eventually both could be pushed at the top of the Divas division akin to Lita , and Trish. Personally I think Charlotte had more upside and potential. When given the ball on the specials she's grabbed the brass ring . Off the success of Total Divas you'd think they'd give the girls a show for an hr or even 30 minutes on the network .They might get subscribers who watch Total Divas to see the girls wrestle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Plus you could shoot it at Full Sail during NXT tapings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think both are really great. I've favored Charlotte more as the best in NXT but that may just be her having more opportunities with longer matches. Sasha certainly is the best character-wise. Though when I think best female in the world, Ivelisse Velez springs to mind as she's someone I wish they would've kept when they had her. She'd be great in there with this group of NXT women now. I agree that Charlotte/Sasha can hit that Trish/Lita level if allowed, if ever there's been two since it's them. Both seem to be on another level compared to the main roster divas of the last several years. Still looking forward to Becky Lynch breaking out as well. Hoping for a long Becky/Charlotte on one of these NXT specials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Best female on the world is either Satomura or Kana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Best female on the world is either Satomura or Kana I think Sasha is better than either of them. Only one who I think comes close would be Fabi Apache, and she doesn't have the output anymore. Maybe Heidi Lovelace if she wasn't so concerned with being primarily an inter-gender wrestler, which does limit her somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I enjoyed their match last Thursday, but I didn't think it was anything amazing. They both had their moments, but there was also plenty of goofy shit, like Sasha's back flip bump from the spear, and Charlotte aping the Ibushi moonsault spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Sasha is still horrid on the mic...and best female worker in the world??? We must have very different opinions on what a good worker is. Charlotte needs some seasoning, but could be the centerpiece of a women's wrestling revival. If they don't job her out all over North Carolina of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 At the risk of sounding like I have some very weird issues, I have to admit that I find it pretty uncomfortable to watch someone with Charlotte's tall skinny frame doing wrestling. Her lack of physical poise probably doesn't help matters either. She's obviously super athletic, but comes off as very awkward when it comes to actually acting like she's in a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Sasha is still horrid on the mic...and best female worker in the world??? We must have very different opinions on what a good worker is. We probably do, in the interest of discussion you could always share why you don't think Sasha is a good worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Criteria seems important here and I don't have good answers. I just watched Lynch vs Bailey and that match, to me, felt very well produced and pretty well executed. And frankly, that's good enough for what they're trying to do. I'm not sure what the criteria is. Do we have to see how well they do on a five minute nothing match on Raw? Do we have to see how well they do in a 8 minute PPV concession stand match? On a Superstars match with less production eyes on it? I thought Emma and Paige were better a year ago than I do now? I'm not sure why that is? Is it just opportunity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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