shoe Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 2015 is here and so far I've seen a lot of good to great wrestling from all around. I want to keep a 2015 MOTY contenders thread at the board I frequent most. This will also be a good place to discuss matches, and to check out matches people might not have seen. Nakamura v Ibushi 1/4/15 This match has been talked about everywhere, So I'm not going to add anything new, but I loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Negro Casas vs Maximo, CMLL 1/11 I loved this one so much. It is also the PWO-PTBN Podcast Network Facebook page Match Club match for this week I added a lot of thoughts there and there is much discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 This is what I thought of the Casas vs Maximo match so it won't be on my list. I thought Casas was great here. They really laid the groundwork for a great match. Maximo was tremendous selling the leg the 1st 2 falls.I loved the Dr. and the gimmick in between falls. Casas spraying Maximo's eyes was tremendous. Then we get to the 3rd fall and Maximo shit cans all the leg work just to do moves. Still this was good, but left me cold. It lacked consistantly.I've liked the 3 main matches from WK9,Aztec Warfare, and Richochet-Thacher,Cavenario/Cometa, 8 man semi on the main show.The shitcanning of the work in the 3rd fall killed the match for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada, NJPW 01/04 I guess I'll bite the bullet and be the first one to mention this I thought it was a really great match in the Orton/Cena vein, in that it's two guys who you know you aren't going to see many - if any - great 'little things' from, and whose execution of the more mechanical aspects of wrestling can range from solid to pretty bad, but that ultimately use their limited micro-level tools to put together a match that tells a great macro-level story. I haven't rewatched either, but right now I'm leaning just a little towards this over Nakamura/Ibushi for current MOTY. Shockercito/Astral/Último Dragóncito/Fantasy/Eléctrico vs. Demus 3:16/Mercurio/Pequeño Nitro/Pequeño Olímpico/Pierrothito (Pequeños Reyes del Aire Cibernético), CMLL 01/06 A match that was all about the nutty spots, but that was also paced well and built to the spots in a way that made them feel meaningful. Loved the character work from the big bullies Pierrothito, Mercurio and Demus and a great underdog babyface performance from Shockercito. I really hope I don't see a sicker bump this year than Astral's missed tope. The most fun I've had watching wrestling in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt - RAW 01/05 Ambulance Match I lost interest in Ambrose after the botched Rollins feud and I never had interest in Wyatt. This match was hooked me right back on board with both characters (Ambrose moreso). Since this was on a shitty episode of RAW I think it has been totally overlooked. This was their best match together by far and showed how well both can be in their respective roles as upper midcard faces and heels. They finally gave a match a proper babyface shine where Ambrose kicked his ass all the way to the ambulance before the first Wyatt cutoff being when he was almost hoisted into ambulance. That is how you build crowd support behind a babyface and make a heel seem desperate. If you go right to the heat segment, there is no desperation on the part of the heel to cheat or use underhanded tactics. Then the match goes from good to great when, Ambrose was the man selling that knee. From great to excellent, the way he was struggling from underneath to just keep that damn Wyatt from his leg was awesome. When Ambrose is able to pull together a flurry of offense, Wyatt always has an explosive cutoff. I love how Ambrose has one last big shot in him when he just dives off the ambulance onto Wyatt through the table. The finish was bit too forced but given who they wanted to win was necessary. I thought crowd heat was hurt a lot because they wrestled the majority of the match around the ambulance so most of the audience had a hard time seeing, but logically if you are going to have an ambulance match the match should surround the ambulance. It is not their fault, but an inherent flaw of the gimmick. Since, I watched it on TV, I had no problem with it, but wanted to point out the crowd dynamics issue. Overall, an awesome brawl that told a great Die Hard story for Ambrose and Wyatt looks the best he has looked since the Shield/Wyatt feud. Easy RAW MOTYC and a projected, fringe MOTYC ****1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 AJPW 01-03 Go Shiozaki versus Joe Doering Tells a really swell story based on initial nostalgia and then the idea of turning the classic David versus Goliath on its head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Either Dorada vs Casas or the minis match is my leading lucha match and my #2/#3 behind Ibushi vs Nakamura. Think Dorada vs Casas is just a three fall sprint. Yeah, Dorada does a little much. But Casas lays it in on Dorada with kicks in the rope which just looks brutal. Dorada does a dive in the first fall where he comes in at a 45 degree angle into Casas's chest which is super sweet. Total workrate match that brought a real smile to my face. Hope Dorada lights it up in NJPW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I enjoyed the Dorada match. It fell short to me as a MOTY contender. It felt like a match thats purpose was to highlight Dorada and it did. It lacked meat to me. My favorite Lucha match that I've seen this year actually came from AAA.It was the Aerostar vs Superfly match and I wouldn't classify it as a MOTY contender. Too much overbooking took it down.I liked the mask ripping, the escalation of violence, Aerostars high spot comeback. All the interferance took the match down. I'll need to watch the minis match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Maximo vs. Casas was never going to be a MOTYC even if Maximo had sold the way people want because it was just a precursor for a hair match. Too much was made out of Maximo's selling; he really only dropped it for his dives and one other sequence I can remember. The finishes to the second and third caidas were much weaker than Maximo's selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 OJ if you didn't like the match because of 2 of the falls that is fine. To say the lack of selling is being overblown is just wrong. The 1st 2 caidas were based around Casas just destroying Maximo's leg. He absolutely shit cans it in the 3rd caida when he goes on offense and from after that. If the lack of selling didn't bother people that's fine. I just put a big emphasis on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Maximo sold the leg after the match and for most of the third caida really. Even when he hit his tope (and he has one of the best topes in lucha history, IMO), he was the worst for wear afterwards. It wasn't like he went on an offensive tear like Manami Toyota is so often accused of. What could he have done differently? Grimaced and clutched at his leg before attempting the tope? Sort of projecting "I know this is going to hurt, but I'm going to try it anyway." That would have been a nice touch, but it would have hardly bumped the match up to MOTY level. Or perhaps he could have chosen not to do the tope because of his bad wheel. We wouldn't have seen one of the best topes in lucha history, which is sad, but it would have been more realistic I suppose. The problem with that is that we'd already seen what he could do on one leg in the second caida which were only lariats. Like I said in my review, if the leg was so important then Casas should have gone after it more during the stretch run. The whole thing got buried for a kiss anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Aerostar versus Superfly was from 2014 if it is the one I'm thinking about. Don't think they have run a show this year yet. Unless you go by a different sort of calendar but I wouldn't haven't on my list for that shear fact. Oh, and as far is it not being a "MOTYC", I tend to a build a list off things I really enjoy. At the end of the year I like to look at a spreadsheet of the things that I can go back to in years going forward. Will it finish in my Top 10? Probably not. Top 50? Probably, unless it is a darn good year. More of a big list guy than a "shortlist" guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I thought it was 2015 for some reason. I'm wrong. The Casas vs Dorada is worth looking at, and is good. OJ even with good selling in the 3rd fall it wouldn't be a MOTYC for me too. I wouldn't hammer so much on the selling if Maximo didn't sell so dramatically in the 1st 2 falls. Though the 1st 2 falls did set up the potential for an incredible match. The 3rd caida didn't follow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I actually thought it was heading towards MOTY territory until the third fall. That lack of selling though, I can't excuse it. Especially not when Maximo did such a great job of selling in the first and second falls. I loved everything Casas did, and the kiss spot didn't bother me at all, but the way Maximo said, "Fuck my leg being hurt I have to get my shit in" really dragged the match down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I don't know if you can really call a luchador doing dives in the third caida "getting their shit in." It's pretty much a fundamental aspect of lucha libre. The whole point of Casas working Maximo's leg over was for Maximo to make a comeback; people just didn't like the way he did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I don't know if you can really call a luchador doing dives in the third caida "getting their shit in." It's pretty much a fundamental aspect of lucha libre. The whole point of Casas working Maximo's leg over was for Maximo to make a comeback; people just didn't like the way he did it. I've seen Maximo get over just fine without diving, and he could have done that in the third. I've also seen plenty of Lucha where guys forsake their usual routine in order to sell damage to a body part. There's no real reason I see as legitimate for excusing Maximo's piss poor selling in the third fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I can't remember the last CMLL singles match I saw that didn't feature a dive, and I could name on one hand the number of lucha matches where there's any sort of sustained body part damage. That's what made Casas' point of attack interesting because it was different from the norm. I don't see why Maximo wouldn't dive in that situation, especially in front of that sort of crowd (which as Matt said looked partially comped), and also because the tope is being used more and more in modern CMLL as the transition for the tecnico comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 There are matches where a limb is worked over to set up a finish and there are matches where a limb is worked over to set up a comeback. Maximo/Casas was the latter. There is a difference between making a comeback after having a body part worked over and ignoring the earlier work. Through the way he moved, his facial expressions, and the way he sold in the third fall, it was clear Maximo had suffered through the first two falls. The idea was that he was able to overcome the body part damage. It was not a matter of him acting like the leg attack never occurred. I think that is pretty standard in wrestling and a lot of really great matches have followed a similar limb work - -> comeback structure. The fact that Maximo used a tope to start the 3rd fall comeback isn't a big deal in a modern CMLL match as ohtani's jacket said. In WWE it might be because dives are used differently and more sparingly than in CMLL. However, a WWE wrestler would likely use his legs late in the match if the idea of the match was that he overcame the body part attack to win. The tope in this match really wasn't any different in that regard. Not for nothing, but Maximo has a really awesome tope and I thought it worked well in the context of being a risk he took in an attempt to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 It seems the only match currently in my top 5 that is not mentioned is: AJ Styles vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW WK9) I thought this was a real fun match and the second best match on the Dome show. Anyway, my top 5 list will remain in my signature through out 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Gotta throw the Brock Lesnar vs John Cena vs Seth Rollins 1/25 out there. I thought it was tremendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Gotta throw the Brock Lesnar vs John Cena vs Seth Rollins 1/25 out there. I thought it was tremendous. Yeah, we'll see what this looks like on a rewatch later in the year but watching live this felt as tremendous as anything from the Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 My Favourites of 2015 so far: Go Shiozaki vs. Joe Doering (1/3) ****Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (1/4) ****3/4Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi (1/4) ****3/4Aztec Warfare- Lucha Underground (1/7) ****1/4Brock Lesnar vs. Seth Rollins vs. John Cena (1/25) ****1/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadic Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 No particular order: Nakamura vs. Ibushi Aztec Warfare Lesnar vs. Cena vs Rollins Okada vs Tanahashi I personally enjoyed Makabe vs Ishii a lot but not really a MOTYC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Aztec warfare doesn't count that match happened in 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Aztec warfare doesn't count that match happened in 2014 It aired in 2015. My list is based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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