concrete1992 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Aztec warfare doesn't count that match happened in 2014 It aired in 2015. My list is based on that. YOUR LIST IS A FARCE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 That is kind of dumb, a handheld of Blue Panther/Blackman v. El Hijo del Santo/Espanto Jr. from 1990 just showed up on youtube a couple of weeks ago. Can that be my 2015 MOTY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 edit: wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 On the PWO-PTBN Facebook page the Match Club is watching Joe Doering & Suwama vs Go Shiozaki & Kento Miyahara (AJPW, January 2, 2015). Anybody have any thoughts on that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt - RAW 01/05 Ambulance Match I lost interest in Ambrose after the botched Rollins feud and I never had interest in Wyatt. This match was hooked me right back on board with both characters (Ambrose moreso). Since this was on a shitty episode of RAW I think it has been totally overlooked. This was their best match together by far and showed how well both can be in their respective roles as upper midcard faces and heels. They finally gave a match a proper babyface shine where Ambrose kicked his ass all the way to the ambulance before the first Wyatt cutoff being when he was almost hoisted into ambulance. That is how you build crowd support behind a babyface and make a heel seem desperate. If you go right to the heat segment, there is no desperation on the part of the heel to cheat or use underhanded tactics. Then the match goes from good to great when, Ambrose was the man selling that knee. From great to excellent, the way he was struggling from underneath to just keep that damn Wyatt from his leg was awesome. When Ambrose is able to pull together a flurry of offense, Wyatt always has an explosive cutoff. I love how Ambrose has one last big shot in him when he just dives off the ambulance onto Wyatt through the table. The finish was bit too forced but given who they wanted to win was necessary. I thought crowd heat was hurt a lot because they wrestled the majority of the match around the ambulance so most of the audience had a hard time seeing, but logically if you are going to have an ambulance match the match should surround the ambulance. It is not their fault, but an inherent flaw of the gimmick. Since, I watched it on TV, I had no problem with it, but wanted to point out the crowd dynamics issue. Overall, an awesome brawl that told a great Die Hard story for Ambrose and Wyatt looks the best he has looked since the Shield/Wyatt feud. Easy RAW MOTYC and a projected, fringe MOTYC ****1/2 I enjoyed this. I thought it was fun. I just don't see it as a MOTYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just got around to watching that Ambrose/Wyatt match. Thought it was very good, surprised not to see more talk of it. Ambrose's selling was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'm absolutely in the bag for Ambrose at this point but he did a lot of things that were kind of amazing in that match, like hitting the rebound lariat off of the stretcher, because OF COURSE HE'S GONNA. It's a great signature spot for him, because it's so stubborn. Him doing the sign of the cross before climbing onto the ambulance was a bizarrely affecting unexpected touch, too. Wyatt as killer whale never gets old either, but they really put a lot of character and psychology (without any bullshit at all) into what's such an ineffective gimmick. Better on rewatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I don't see what makes that match good let alone great. WWE gimmick matches are probably my least favourite pro wrestling genre. There is no efficient heel/face dynamic in 2015 WWE nor are they good enough workers to invest me into FIP segments but nothing except the quasi legwork indicated they cared about that. And with no long term selling I have even less reason to care about it. The big spots are all set up illogically and are often get too pretentious too actually look good, not to mention the way they worked the match is fundamentally wrong (I better get my opponent in the ring instead of, you know, TRYING TO WIN....why'd I do that?). I only see it having merit as a garbage spotfest and even then the work isn't anything memorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yeah, an elbow drop off of the top of an ambulance is pretentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I was mainly alluding to Wyatt hitting his finisher on the ambulance door and the floor which had no chance of looking good for obvious reasons. Though an Elbow Drop through a table in a WWE garbage match isn't something I'm going to care about as it's almost a norm at this point and it didn't look particularly good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yeah, an elbow drop off of the top of an ambulance is pretentious. Calling an elbow drop off an ambulance "pretentious" is pretentious. I am totally on board with the lack of face/heel dynamics in modern WWE. Heels just arent heels really more in the context of the match. Did Wyatt give an all-time great heel performance? No. Was he effective in cutting Ambrose off and presenting an obstacle for Ambrose to overcome? YES! In modern WWE that is about as good as we are going to get, but that is not enough to make this an excellent match. What makes this match so good is that Ambrose gives one of the best babyface performances of recent memory. His selling of the leg was great and you really got the feeling he is fighting through all that pain that this victory really meant something to him. Goddamnit, the only chance he had was to climb a top of that ambulance and fling his body off on top of Wyatt. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO LOOK GOOD! He just had his body mangled and distorted. It was a last ditch home run to take out his opponent and he knew it would hurt himself in the process. You want face/heel dynamics, but then you don't want rawness in your matches. Yeah, I was not in love with the finish and they are way too reliant on SIster Abigail out of nowhere. I fully admit that I may be overrating this from watching this live. I will rewatch this in a year or so. But to claim the match is not even good, just seems off base to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I am totally on board with the lack of face/heel dynamics in modern WWE. Heels just arent heels really more in the context of the match. x2 The Elbow Drop was executed fine, but there was no struggle prior to make me care about the spot and the spot itself didn't look impressive. You talk about his body being mangled and distorted and how it was a "last ditch effort that would hurt him". That narrative could be applied but I didn't find Wyatt's offence to be so astonishingly brutal it would make Ambrose half-dead and Ambrose's big desperation spot just looked weak. He leaped from a pretty mild elevation. As for Ambrose's leg selling, well, it just didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. He was doing Nigel's contrived rebound lariats anyway and they looked even more preposterous with him trying to fit quasi leg selling in there. He crawled and made more silly faces then he'd usually but outside of that I didn't get the sense that it affected the match much. I fully admit that I may be overrating this from watching this live. I will rewatch this in a year or so. But to claim the match is not even good, just seems off base to me. Converting enjoyment into numbers is stupid anyway . If you enjoyed it that much then great-I didn't and I gave my reasoning for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I am totally on board with the lack of face/heel dynamics in modern WWE. Heels just arent heels really more in the context of the match. x2 The Elbow Drop was executed fine, but there was no struggle prior to make me care about the spot and the spot itself didn't look impressive. You talk about his body being mangled and distorted and how it was a "last ditch effort that would hurt him". That narrative could be applied but I didn't find Wyatt's offence to be so astonishingly brutal it would make Ambrose half-dead and Ambrose's big desperation spot just looked weak. He leaped from a pretty mild elevation. As for Ambrose's leg selling, well, it just didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. He was doing Nigel's contrived rebound lariats anyway and they looked even more preposterous with him trying to fit quasi leg selling in there. He crawled and made more silly faces then he'd usually but outside of that I didn't get the sense that it affected the match much. I fully admit that I may be overrating this from watching this live. I will rewatch this in a year or so. But to claim the match is not even good, just seems off base to me. Converting enjoyment into numbers is stupid anyway . If you enjoyed it that much then great-I didn't and I gave my reasoning for it. Brutha, what I meant by my last comment was that I am a bit foggy on certain things. Like you said "no struggle" and I am thinking "There was a lot of struggle". This aint like being in a helicopter and being shot at or not. I wanted to make sure you knew that I was viewing this from the context of a month ago and that I did not believe my opinion was immutable or the authority on the subject matter. I waffle back and forth between star ratings. They were wicked useful for Best of Japan in 00s project and I like to think of lists in tiers anyways. I got used to them over time and they are a helpful organizational tool. So I have started tacking snowflakes on the end of stuff. But arguing over star ratings is the most pretentious and boring thing any two wrestling fans can do, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'll add Ishii vs. Honma from 2/14/15. I thought this was a 4 1/2* affair. The drama was off the charts. I had a couple issues early on, but nothing to derail this match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'll add Zayn vs Owens from 2/11/15. I thought this was a 4 1/4* match. This was worked in a real aggressive style. It started out with a great angle, and the match built on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Agree on Owens-Zayn. Great match made mostly by Zayn's amazing bumping and selling. Owens unfortunately did too much stomping and chinlocks for the match to reach it's full potential. I'd go ***3/4-****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Styles/Young Bucks vs. ACH/Sydal/Alexander 1/24/15 4 1/4* Man this was a tremendous all action match. Tons of hot moves. We got a lot of back and forth action. The dive sequence was off the charts. That finishing sequence was one of the more exciting ones. The finishing run even tops the Rumble as awesome finishes goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadic Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I've watched the Styles/Young Bucks vs. ACH/Sydal/Alexander match three times already. Absolutely awesome match. Spotty, yes, but really fun to watch and take in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Harashima v. Ibushi from the latest DDT show was an outstanding match, even with one segment that was set up in the dumbest fashion possible. Harashima is the best ace in wrestling, and Ibushi has officially won me over. Also want to mention that if Sin Cara v. Cesaro had been on ppv it would be on the radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I didn't see Harashima/Ibushi as quite at that level, though it was very good. Really loved the opening stomach work; a lack of interesting stuff in the opening third of the match is a frequent issue I have with modern Japanese big matches, and that was certainly not a problem here. They really took me out of it with the contrived going up onto the stage stuff, but got me back by the end, though Ibushi popping up after a big move to lead into the finish was rather egregious, I thought. I would've liked the opening stomach stuff to play a role in the latter third of the match also. Not a MOTYC for me but about as good a non-MOTYC as you're going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I was startled to see Cesaro-Sin Cara get significant hype around some places. The opening was promising but then Sin Cara botched everything and Cesaro's workovers (which were pretty uninteresting to begin with) went nowhere. His final cover had a nice touch (the keylock on the arm he worked over) and the Suicide Dive Armdrag looked cool but that's about it. It honestly looked like a below average match to me. Bryan/Reigns vs The Usos from the February 12th Smackdown was pretty great. Bryan looked amazing just beating the shit out of the Usos and Reigns didn't detract from the match as his work was limited to just hitting his spots with good timing and execution. I was pleasantly surprised by his apron work and facial expressions. The Usos brought the goods as usual but Bryan's performance pushed this into (WWE at least) MOTYC territory for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I thought Cara v. Cesaro was blowaway great. Don't see the criticisms of it at all. The match built well, got time, had the right combination of sound psychology and big spots, and I'm lost as to what the alleged botches of Cara's were. I watched Reigns/Bryan v. The Usos the other day on the pimping of a few people and thought it was a solid, but largely uneventful tag. The stretch run kind of had the feel of a throwback to the hot era of Shield tags which was cool, and I liked some of Reigns dismissive facial expressions early on, but as a whole it just sort of felt there. I thought the handheld Harper/Rusev v. Cena/Ambrose tag was vastly better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I was startled to see Cesaro-Sin Cara get significant hype around some places. The opening was promising but then Sin Cara botched everything and Cesaro's workovers (which were pretty uninteresting to begin with) went nowhere. His final cover had a nice touch (the keylock on the arm he worked over) and the Suicide Dive Armdrag looked cool but that's about it. It honestly looked like a below average match to me. Watched this today and while I didn't see Sin Cara botch a whole lot, I'm not sure where it was anything beyond an okay TV match, and well below anything Cesaro would usually produce when give time in the past. He got more time here than he's generally seen of late, but this didn't really build much despite that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I thought Harashima vs Ibushi was really good. The stage spots kept it from MOTYC level contender.Also Harashima's strikes were a little weak looking at times.I still liked it. I'd say 3 3/4* I liked Cesaro vs Sina Cara. I'd go 4*. My problem with the match is that Sin Cara isn't over and I never bought into the nearfalls. I loved the arm work mixed in with Cesaro's gritty working of holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 My biggest criticism of the Cara/Cesaro match is that the armwork ultimately went nowhere. It didn't bother me terribly because Cara wasn't really no selling, and he didn't work spots after the fact that were dependent on the use of the arm, but it's something I would have liked to have seen paid off I didn't like the way they set up the stage spot in Harashima/Ibushi at all, and can absolutely see why it would take the match down a peg for some. Still preferred it to Honma/Ishii on first watch, but not sure if that would hold up on a second go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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