JerryvonKramer Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-71-clash-of-the-champions-18/ Chad and Parv march on into the glory days of 1992 for Clash of the Champions 18 where it's all change at the top for WCW: [0:15:11] Wrestling Observer roundup: bumper crop of the Meltzers as Luger's contract runs out, Jesse Ventura signs!, Evil Jim Herd finally resigns and the legendary lawyer Kip Allen Frey starts his regime. [1:16:39] Review of Clash of the Champions 18: K. Allen Frey's workrate bonus, ranking the Freebird's new video against Black Scorpion and Oz, assessing Ventura's value, the Dangerous Alliance and Rick Rude's selling of the inverted atomic drop! [2:18:27] End of the Show awards and Question for the Listeners: How much do you value commentary? Also be sure to check out MattD’s companion piece discussing the commentary situation here: http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-the-column-beyond-worth-every-penny/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Some thoughts as I listen. I've got the WCW 1991 NJ show in full if you guys need a copy. I totally agree with you on Luger. I think a lot of it was he was a new generation of look and approach, more of a businessman than a frat boy not growing up (ironic given Luger's past) and that really rubbed people the wrong way. They didn't WANT people who admitted they were smart and thought of wrestling as a business. It's okay if you are but not okay if you behave if you are. Totally silly IMO. One thing occurred to me - would Luger have been better off if the Narcissist had never happened and his arrival on the USS Intrepid to slam Yokozuna had been his debut? Madden's comments are silly and flat out wrong. Flair did very little to bump up house show numbers in 91. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Hey, I liked 1991 Schiavone! I just didn't care for Ross that year, but Schiavone carried him really effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Sorry Pete, I knew you had some hatred to some portion of the commentary. Brain: I think the timing of Luger's run was integral. If it came after the WM 9 Hogan debacle, I don't think he stood a chance. Even before that, the All American gimmick feels dated where certain individuals like Duggan and Hogan to an extent could still be over resting on their patriotic roots just based on crowd familiarity but a new character would struggle mightily in that much of a white meat babyface role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Another thing that ruined WWF Lex was the total and sudden 180 his character did. You can debut him as a heel if you want, but you can't go from Narcissist to All-American in one week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 A strong show boys. The energy level is off the charts. I knew Parv was going to love that opening tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A strong show boys. The energy level is off the charts. I knew Parv was going to love that opening tag. Weird how this happens when you record during normal human being activity hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks Shoe, this felt more casual of a show which I didn't know how it would play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I used to have that same tye dye shirt Jesse wore there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Mero's antics during that promo were just...well...just...not much else to say really! At least with Vinnie Vegas, there is more of the Nash we'd all come to know in that character. There isn't much, but it seems to fit what he'd be as Diesel and himself. I'm also kind of interested in seeing when the DDP transformation happens. How did he go from this "high roller" goof with barely any heat, to one of the hottest acts in the promotion by the start of the Nitro era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downend2005 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just listening now, but I've been a longtime listener and always look forward to the next one (maybe I'm one of the quiet ones you refer to at the start of this show!). Very entertaining stuff so far! If I'm not mistaken, I think that the writer of that God-awful 1991 rap 'MC Cool Ernie' Santilli actually was or later became a wrestling journalist, and had a regular column in Powerslam magazine in the UK under the name of Stately Wayne Manor (and later his real name). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Awesome context Drowned and thanks for listening and commenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Page starts to show life around Spring Stampede 1994 if I recall correctly as he has a nice opener with Johnny B. Badd but doesn't really take off until he gets the diamond cutter over around 1996. Speaking of Johnny B. Badd and Brian Pillman more specifically, I believe they were on the verge of slow burning Pillman for a heel turn which would take place six months down the line when he turned on Brad Armstrong in six months at Clash of the Champions XX. He would be teaming with Barry Windham for a short period before transitioning to Austin and the Hollywood Blondes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yeah, I am making my way through Page really kind of becoming something of a commodity in 1996 which shows a lot of patience even though he did have some serviceable stuff before then but he also had some dreadful stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Just getting started with this. Chad, what was your point about the difference between Luger and Vader's passion for wrestling? If I heard you right, you were suggesting it was similar. I disagree - Vader was willing to work extensively in Japan, and has stated he studied tape of opponents in order to see what they did well and didn't do well to help with calling matches. I think his improvement as a worker from 1987-91 is considerably better than Luger's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Vader was willing to work places that paid him well. He found a market for that in Japan. I have no doubt if vader could have had a career as a football player for life, he would have. Vader doesn't strike me as much of a student of the game as he had his general theme of working most opponents. Regardless of vader my general point is that individuals like Brock and others in history have entered pro wrestling as a career and not a passion project. Why does Luger get more lambasted compared to them? My only summation is the attitude among Flair and others like Brody for Luger with the clout they had with the newsletter writers at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 'individuals like Brock and others in history have entered pro wrestling as a career and not a passion project'. But couldn't that be said about almost everyone that entered the business before 1990, or so? It was regarded as a business in which it make good money. Upon entering, many fell in love with the spotlight and fame, but the first incentive was the dollar. I'd say Luger is different in that he didn't move to that second stage, and always felt he'd prefer to be bodybuilding. I get the impression that Vader was fully committed, and didn't yearn to return to football by 1991. By the way I pick 1990 as roughly a time when lifelong fans like Jericho would have been breaking in, and had grown up in the 80s peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Jim Herd Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The greatest accomplishment Jim Herd had wasn't the ramp, it was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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