WWN Live-Evolve, I-ppv's

[shoe]

So far as a company they've done a great job at pissing off their fan base.

 

1. If you order the day of the show you get a 5 dollar increase in price. Hey Fuck off all you impulse buyers.

 

2. The VOD on demand won't be up till Sunday. I ordered Evolve 40 even though I was going to be at work for the 1st 1/2 of it. I thought that's fine I'll watch it Saturday morning. I also got KOTI night one. I watched everything but the last 2 matches because they put on such a bad show I fell asleep at that point in my chair. Again I'll have to wait till sometime Sunday to view the rest of it.

 

Overall they've left a bad taste in my mouth. With all these extra eyeballs on them they've dropped the ball and come across as pretty carny, I really wanted to make this a Wrestlemania weekend w/o leaving my home.

[Dylan Waco]

It's an impossible to defend model.

 

First of all they are running seven shows. They really should have offered them as some sort of package deal. If they had done the seven shows with VOD access for 50-70 bucks, I would have bought it. This gets more eyes on things like Kaiju, Shimmer, and KOI, which are really all high risk, niche within a niche, shows. It's also worth noting that smart marketing could have sold that really well by talking up the fact that it is more live wrestling in three days than WWE Network gives you in a month - and for less money. My guess is a package deal like that would have brought in vastly more money and then they could still offer the shows a la carte.

 

Having said that the pricing is insane. Pete mentioned the stupidity of discouraging impulse buys above, and the late VOD access, but what is even worse than that is the fact that if you buy the show same day and want VOD access it is actually five dollars more than just buying it with VOD access the next day (or the day it becomes available). In other words the people who bought the show as an impulse buy, but want VOD access are penalized TWICE for their purchase. This is especially ridiculous this year when you have shows on the West Coast where staying awake for the live stream poses a big problem, and you have a risky venture like KOI where many potential buyers may have been waiting to see the first show and/or see what the second round match ups would be.

 

I ordered the WWNLive Super Show and KOI Night Two, but the more time goes on I regret spending any money on these shows.

[Lee]

I'm confused by what you mean on the "more live wrestling than a month of the Network and for less money" thing when you're suggesting a $50-$70 price point vs. $9.99 for that month of your Network sub?

This is especially ridiculous this year when you have shows on the West Coast where staying awake for the live stream poses a big problem

You Yanks needs to man the fuck up and move to Europe where pretty much 99% of the live wrestling you can watch doesn't start until after midnight anyway. Seriously, I was thinking about how alien a concept it is for most of us that you could watch WWE PPVs in prime time, let alone hit the west coast for Mania and have it be over before the night has barely even begun. Get yerself sat up until the crack of dawn for this shit, then we'll talk.

[dkookypunk43]

This sucks because they had cards that people actually care about in which hasn't happened in at least 2 years

[Strand Peanut]

Maybe Europe should man up and have better live wrestling? 😘

 

Waking up early for Liverpool hasn't been a problem for this American over 20 years running.

 

But running a US show for a US audience, and not having it run in primetime EST is never a bright idea. Even outside of wrestling, this is almost never done in the US.

 

The NFL is easily the most popular unifying thing in US culture these days, and they still won't step away from the broadcast philosophy. EST zone sets the pace for the US. To ignore it, is to ignore the majority of the market's desires.

[Dylan Waco]

I'm confused by what you mean on the "more live wrestling than a month of the Network and for less money" thing when you're suggesting a $50-$70 price point vs. $9.99 for that month of your Network sub?

 

This is especially ridiculous this year when you have shows on the West Coast where staying awake for the live stream poses a big problem

You Yanks needs to man the fuck up and move to Europe where pretty much 99% of the live wrestling you can watch doesn't start until after midnight anyway. Seriously, I was thinking about how alien a concept it is for most of us that you could watch WWE PPVs in prime time, let alone hit the west coast for Mania and have it be over before the night has barely even begun. Get yerself sat up until the crack of dawn for this shit, then we'll talk.

 

I meant less money per show than a single WWE live event (i.e. live event for live event, WWNLive would be cheaper). Sorry I botched that.

 

Also staying awake doesn't pose much of a problem for me - I stay up until 3 or 4 watching wrestling 22-25 days out of the month. But for the average person it is a chore

[shoe]

Is Shimmer airing 4 everyone right now. I ordered Mercury Rising and in it's window Shimmer is playing.

[Dylan Waco]

A quirk? Mine is just counting down to the show.

[shoe]

Must be. It's also playing in my KOTI window.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I laugh that he still sells DVD's. How many of the $24.99 options do they sell per show? Less than five? Do the DVD's ever even get made?

 

I made the same point as Dylan did above in the "everything but Mania" thread. I was wanting to buy both Evolves and both KOI shows on VOD, but it just wasn't worth it logistically.

[goodhelmet]

After shoe's problems on KOTI NIght One, combined with the over-pricing for day-of shows, I passed on all of the products. I had planned on picking up one or two of the shows to kill time (and maybe do a podcast reaction or two) but I don't want to watch a VOD later. My schedule this weekend absolutely prevented me from watching a complete show on time. Bummer.

[concrete1992]

I laugh that he still sells DVD's. How many of the $24.99 options do they sell per show? Less than five? Do the DVD's ever even get made?

 

I made the same point as Dylan did above in the "everything but Mania" thread. I was wanting to buy both Evolves and both KOI shows on VOD, but it just wasn't worth it logistically.

This is the kicker, a ton of DVDs don't actually get made. IF they get made they are on at the very least a 9 month delay. It is truly incredible that he is allowed to keep that option on WWN. Imagine being a first time viewer on WM weekend and you're thinking it'd be a good time to get into indie wrestling. You see what the people are talking about and you're like, "Hey, I can watch this iPPV, VOD, and the DVD for $25. That ain't too bad". Then crickets.

[van_Fair]

Are any of the shows worth picking up on VOD?

[Dylan Waco]

I thought KOTI Night Two was a very good show.

 

The friday Evolve show was widely praised though I didn't see it.

 

Hero v. Thatcher was a great match, but I'm not sure I could argue that someone should buy the whole Mercury Rising show to see it.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I only watched 39 and thought it was nothing to write home about. Lots of Alan4L face time, though.

[Indikator]

Waking up early for Liverpool hasn't been a problem for this American over 20 years running.

 

I'm sorry but that is really stupid to compare. There is a huge difference between 1am-5am timeframes and everything past 6am, especially if you aren't a nightowl. I was delighted when I could watch the NJPW dome show in the morning this January, and I did live coverage for a website at the aforementioned time slots from 1am-5am for roughly 3 years, more often than not +2 times a week. Early in the morning >>>>>>> middle of the night for the majority.

[shoe]

1. Drew Galloway vs Uhaa Nation

 

This is fun stuff. We see nation work the arm . Galloway tries to get rid of him to no avail. Eventually he gets some seperation . Galloway with a slam on the ring apron. We get a chop battle, and Galloway throws Nation into the corner furthering his work on the back. Nation starts a comeback with his athleticism. German Suplex into the turnbuckle by Galloway misses his mark a bit. Strike exchange from both. Nation with a power bomb. . Nation in control. alloway counters into a DDT for a win. A good match. 2 3/4*

 

 

Thatcher vs Tommy End

 

Some fun mat working. The story is Thatcher's mat work and submissions versus End's kicking power. Thatcher cranking that knee lock. Some more control battle, then Thatcher gets a 1/2 knee bar. Judo throw by Thatcher that he turns into a hammerlock. End counters with a triangle choke that Thatcher wanted no part of. Scissor hold into a knee lock by End. Thatcher escapes with an ankle pick and is back on top. Thatcher captures End in a kimura, but gets the ropes. Fireman carry by Thatcher that leads to nothing. Big kick by End. End taking it to Thatcher. Big sell job by Thatcher on a kick. Leg sweep by End. End with leg strikes to Thatcher. Thatcher tries to fight back, but is quickly stopped. A front choke by Thatcher. End forces him in the corner for a rope break. Big knee strike by End that looks nasty. End tries to push guard and gets caught by a Fujiwara Arm Bar. Great match. 3 3/4*

 

 

More when I finish watching

 

 

[shoe]

Perkins vs Gulak

 

They take it to the mat. Much more wow mat work. Counter after counter of moves. Gulak hurts Perkins knee and starts to work it. Perkins looks to be targeting Gulaks arm. He works it with some interesting arm work. Gulak escapes and goes back to the leg. Perkins hooks a sweet arm bar submission that gets countered into a leg lock . They do this a few more times. I like it, but can see someone say that it's stupid. It got a reaction though. Gulak gets the heel hook submission. I liked this match. They combined mat wrestling with some pro wrestling psychology. The reversals were a little much, but for the most part satisfying. 3 3/4*

 

Fox vs Page

 

Fox has some cool looking shit. Page looks to be working the back after some cool shit. Page follows up with a stomp, and then a back body drop. Now Page is just beating on him. Fox with some defensive strikes. After getting his back worked over he delivers a big dive to the outside. Then he delivers a Swanton. Talk about getting your shit in. A match that has a lot of cool shit in it, but no real substance. 1 1/2*

 

Some more later.

[shoe]

Hero vs Busick

 

We start off with a chop off and Hero's seem off. It escalates into an assortment of different types of strikes. Hero's goal is to KO Busick, while Busick thinks he'll choke out Hero. Hero really is outclassing Busick. Big German by Busick to even the score for a short time. Hero with a belly to back Suplex. Hero misses a big charge and Busick nails him twice with sick running Eurpean forearms. Rear naked choke that Hero gets a rope break. Big dive by Busick to the outside and puts on the RNC on the outside. Piledriver by Hero. 1/2 Nelson x2 by Busick and follows up with a stiff lariat. They battle on the top rope. Hero counters a choke sleeper with a rolling elbow. Rolling elbow. Big Pile driver by hero finishes it off. Both guys worked a stiff battle. A ltlle too much shifts in momentum for my taste. Still a hell of a match. 3 1/2*

 

Tag match Swann got hurt and it just ends. Not going to watch it.

 

Ricochet vs PJ Black

 

We start off with some mat work. Some fun highspot counters. Ricochet getting the shine with hot moves. Black cuts him off with a face plant. Black gets a run on top now and he uses kicks and begins to ground Ricochet. Ricochet fights back, but Black cuts him off. We get a couple of attempts that both guys cut off. This cullimates with a big Ricochet dive to the outside. Ricochet is in control. Eventually, we see an STO from Black that leads to a kick off. Both guys battling. Ricochet with a 450 miss. Black hits it. They're battling on the top rope that leads to a reverse rana by Ricochet. A 630 for Ricochet for the win. This was a real fun high spot oriented match. The opening mat work meant nothing in the long run. A little too much big move, rcovery my opponents turn. Still I thought this was a fun high spot oriented match. 3 1/4*

 

Evolve 40 is worth checking out. We get a good balance of wrestling and high flying on it.

[shoe]

I thought I'd start a thread for them solo from modern Indie wrestling since they're more high profile with the IPPV's.

[shoe]

I decided to merge some of the threads and start an Evolve, WWN Live, I ppv dump thread and keep it seperate from modern Indie since it's a little bit more high profile.

[shoe]

Evolve 42

 

Andrea vs Santana

 

This match didn't do much for me. I thought Andrea brought this down a lot. 3/4*

 

Martin Stone vs Ethan Page

 

This bout felt long. It didn't connect to me.Still better than the opener 1 1/2*

 

Andrew Everett vs Rey Horus

 

This is a showcase match to make both guys look good, but to show that they have plans for Horus. Mission was accomplished on their end. 2 3/4*

 

Thatcher vs Perkins

 

This so far has seen some great mat wrestling. Thatcher seems to be getting the crowd more behind him as his style gets more familiar. Thatcher's selling of his bad wing has been great. Loving Thatcher looking for the Fujiwara . Another great match from Thatcher and Perkins was with him the whole time. With Thatcher you can get a finish at any time. 4*

 

Busick vs Strong

 

Some big strike exchanges early. Busick misses Strong and Strong begins to dish out punishment. Busick runs around the ring for a big strike. That spot I hate, He goes for it again this time Strong counters it into a back breaker on the guard rail. Busick is selling the back pretty big. Strong gets heat on Busick. I thought he could have worked over the back better. He seemed to work over his mid section instead. This settles down with a strike exchange. Busick out of no where captures Strong in a rear naked choke for the ref stoppage. 3 1/2*

 

Thatcher/Busick angle where Thatcher sells a busted eardrum.

 

Richards vs Lee

 

We start out with a fun rope running spot. Both guys work a real athletic style. Richards has a real intensity to him. Lee with some cool knee strikes. 2 3/4*

 

Konley/Nese vs Swann/ Gargano

 

We have a street fight. We get weapons shots.This went way long and got real repetetive. 2*

 

Overall a solid show. Thatcher/Perkins was a great match and worth getting the show on it alone.

[WrestlingPower]

I know this is an old talking point, but they seriously still try to sell an option where you get a DVD? They openly skipped releasing like 10 shows in an effort to catch up & then after the restart are like 6 months behind on releasing shows. Not to mention that once the DVD is ready they rebill the customer for shipping costs on top of what they already paid. Or at least they did years ago when that 3-tiered payment thing started. There was much uproar at the time about that, people essentially thought they were holding the DVD hostage until you gave them more $ to ship it to you. At this point they really should just scrap the DVDs and offer mp4 downloads or something instead of being years behind on getting stuff out. I appreciate their desire to deliver a quality product with nice packaging etc. but product to market of 12+ months in a "what have you done for me lately" market is ridiculous.

[shoe]

Evolve 41

 

Martin Stone vs. Anthony Nese

 

This is your basic match. Again it felt long. 2 *

 

Caleb Konley vs. Rey Horus

 

Horus looked good at the KOTI so he gets a shot to impress at Evolve. The story here is Horus wants to fly while Konley wants to ground Horus. This feels like more of a match than the exhibition we got at Evolve 42 with Horus. Horus selling seems better here than his KOTI work. Horus has some really breathtaking high spots. This is a match that could have been helped by cutting a few minutes This was pretty damn good. Horus looked amazing on offense. His selling was better. Konley was good. His work on top was solid, and kept things interesting enough. I'm excited about Horus working the better mat workers that Evolve showcases now. 3 1/4*

 

TJ Perkins vs. Biff Busick

 

I like both of these wrestlers so I'm excited for this match up. We get some early mat work. Some of the counters are lightning quick. Busick working a cravat. A flying European forearm by Busick. He does a neck crank. Bow and Arrow with his head right in Perkin's neck. Perkins gets some seperation. Perkins does a weird transition into a cross arm breaker that gets a rope break. Big double knee strike by Perkins. Big European forearm counter by Busick, followed by a Blockbuster. Perkins counters in into a cross arm breaker with leg guillotine strikes for a ref stoppage. 3 1/2*

 

Ethan Page vs. Rich Swann

 

Swann is on fire to start. Page cuts him off and starts working him over. He's focusing on the ribs he hurt over Mania. Swann's selling is really good here. I'm liking Page's focus, but would like a little more diversity to the work. Nice job of Swann selling the ribs after his rana. I'm loving Swann's work underneath, but Page needs a bit more mean looking offense. His offense was focused pretty well though. 2 3/4*

 

Johnny Gargano vs. Davey Richards

 

These aren't 2 of my favorites so lets see if they can engage me. They're working with a lot of urgency like the match matters. Riichards is controlling the bout with some Gargano hope spots sprinkled in. Big spear gives Gargano the edge. Richards jaw jacking with the crowd has been a highlight of the match. Richards back in control and starts to work the leg. Richards with some nasty leg work. Gargano attempts a comeback. Richards counters, but his focus goes away from the knee. Richards gets a stretch muffler, G?argano counters to a crossface but Richards makes the ropes. Strike exchange. Richards semms to sell the arm a little too much. They exchange submissions, they run the gauntlet of nearfalls. Richards goes over with a KO kick. I thought the finishing run was overkill and kinda makes the 2 of 3 falls in the main event harder to buy. With that said I liked this a lot with just some little things that bothered me. 3 3/4*

 

Roderick Strong vs. Tim Thatcher (2 out of 3 Falls)

 

Both guys are having great matches this year. Thatcher is in my top 5 wrestler of the year right now. Strong I could easily see in my top 10-20 without blinking. Both guys fighting for control. Thatcher catches the arm for a bit and Strong takes a powder. Thatcher back to the arm, along with manipulating Strong's digits. That's some nasty stuff. Strong using knees and strikes on Thatcher. Forearm exchange on the apron. This has been pretty hard hitting. Strong counters Thatcher Fujiwara

 

2nd fall starts on the floor. Some more interesting work on the mat.Thatcher has the momentum on his side. These guys are selling they've been in a battle. Thatcher counters a double arm suplex into a cross arm breaker.

 

3rd fall

 

They really put it on the line here. This was just a war. Strong just destroying Thatcher's back. Both guys look like they've run a marathon.These guys worked so hard here. They gave us everything they had. The finish and final fall put this over the top for me as an excellent match. 4 *

 

This was another really strong show. I thought this was the best show of the 2 this weekend. Thatcher having another great match. Strong kills it again. It's a shame his feud with the Decade has been so promiment. It's what is otherwise detracting from a killer year between the ropes.

[Strand Peanut]

Killer year ? But it's only May! 😏

 

Which matches have been most impressive?

 

The 2/3 falls match has my interest piqued.