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#41 stevieg1980

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:49 PM

I think if this tour and taping goes well it wouldn't be half bad taking some untried UK talent such as Rampage Brown, Dave Mastiff, Zack Sabre Jr. & Noam Dar plus bring in some Jarrett has worked with before like Doug Williams and Mark Haskins.

#42 Grimmas

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 06:42 AM

I stand amazed that someone can start up a company in 2015 doing the same old stuff.

 

We are in a world where cable is dying and internet streaming is on the rise.

 

In 2015 why would you just be shooting a pilot and then shopping it to networks? Look around and youtube has more viewers than tv. Netflix is very successful and things like this is what you should be looking into. Why try so hard to get on TV, when it's a medium that is going down.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you should do, but I would think talking to netflix, youtube, etc.. would be something you'd look into first and screw network tv. The internet is where the young people are. There is so many reports stating that and a lot of kids think youtube stars are bigger than tv stars. Get with the times already.



#43 BillThompson

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:15 AM

We interviewed Jarrett at The Tag Rope a month back and he was really pushing the idea of using TV as a way to boost GFW's online presence. Not sure if he will hold true to that statement, but if he uses the TV and house shows to boost an online streaming service or to hook up with Hulu somehow then he's doing things right I think.



#44 Grimmas

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:19 AM

We interviewed Jarrett at The Tag Rope a month back and he was really pushing the idea of using TV as a way to boost GFW's online presence. Not sure if he will hold true to that statement, but if he uses the TV and house shows to boost an online streaming service or to hook up with Hulu somehow then he's doing things right I think.

Yeah, if the idea is to use tv to get popular enough to quit tv than he might have a chance.

 

Also this pretending the tv show is live bullshit should stop too.



#45 SomethingSavage

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 10:26 AM

Steven vs Television for Feud of the Year 2015?



#46 Grimmas

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 10:33 AM

Steven vs Television for Feud of the Year 2015?

That started in 2009 when I ditched cable and haven't looked back since. TV is in the same state music was in the 2000s trying to fight online. They failed an TV will fail.



#47 pol

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 11:46 AM

TV is still where the money is though. Meltzer keeps harping on about how the old wrestling model where you use TV to promote your live and PPV busines is no longer viable, you need TV money to operate now.



#48 Matt D

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 11:52 AM

I think the GFW model will be to fleece a money mark.



#49 Grimmas

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 12:21 PM

TV is still where the money is though. Meltzer keeps harping on about how the old wrestling model where you use TV to promote your live and PPV busines is no longer viable, you need TV money to operate now.

Except for the shows that get by well on Netflix, Hulu or Yahoo. Except for all the shows that do well on youtube.

 

I don't think the creators of Daredevil would had made as much money on TV, do you?



#50 Parties

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 02:08 PM

Aside from Lucha Libre USA and some bad documentaries, the only wrestling on Hulu is WWE, and I imagine there are contracts in place to keep it that way.

I suppose Netflix is possible, as there’s a lot of trashy episodic TV from small-time networks on there. By Netflix standards it’s all barely watched, but it’s there. Getting there seems doable only if their TV company has the ability to close the deal, which means hooking up with a hot network that isn't owned by Comcast, FOX, or Disney. Destination America has been “in talks” with Netflix for six months, and nothing’s happened. Even if DA got programming on there, it wouldn’t necessarily be TNA (and they have a better case to make for being there than GFW would). ROH in its present form would stand no chance of getting on Netflix, and I don't see GFW being miles ahead of them.

The highest paid YouTubers are European video game reviewers and ASMR ladies who open toy boxes while meowing. If those are your kingpins, then Lucha VaVoom, Kaiju and Chikara stand a better chance than Jarrett does. The top attractions have millions of subscribers, and billions of views. In USD, after YouTube takes their sizable 45% cut, the ten biggest acts on Youtube make between $500K and $8 million/year. I’m not saying a wrestling company of TNA rejects can’t make money. But when your best case, virtually impossible scenario earns a couple million dollars a year (and rest assured, GFW would make far less than that), I can understand why Jarrett thinks a mediocre syndication or cable deal has more upside. Maybe that’s short-sighted, but it seems unrealistic to think that a Youtube-only wrestling show of solid hands and also-rans would triumph.

The only current free agents in wrestling capable of moving the needle are CM Punk and maybe Shane McMahon. If you’re trying to be an online sensation, who are you putting on your Times Square billboard? TNA at the peak of their financial recklessness in 2010 spent millions to get Hogan, Flair, Hardy, Bischoff, Nash, Hall, and a dozen others. It achieved less than nothing.

The real goal should be: built your own sensations from scratch, and keep costs low enough that you can afford to grow for five years and learn from mistakes. Make friends in nerd media. Get enough breathing room to make pivots as needed, and become a viable international brand by giving guys from Japan, the UK and Mexico an American platform. Most of which boils down to timing, luck, and putting microphones in front of the right people.



#51 Grimmas

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 04:20 PM

Aside from Lucha Libre USA and some bad documentaries, the only wrestling on Hulu is WWE, and I imagine there are contracts in place to keep it that way.

 

Community is on yahoo. Hulu has Lucha Libre USA, so why can't another get on there?

 

 

 

I suppose Netflix is possible, as there’s a lot of trashy episodic TV from small-time networks on there. By Netflix standards it’s all barely watched, but it’s there. Getting there seems doable only if their TV company has the ability to close the deal, which means hooking up with a hot network that isn't owned by Comcast, FOX, or Disney. Destination America has been “in talks” with Netflix for six months, and nothing’s happened. Even if DA got programming on there, it wouldn’t necessarily be TNA (and they have a better case to make for being there than GFW would). ROH in its present form would stand no chance of getting on Netflix, and I don't see GFW being miles ahead of them.

 

First, why does wrestling have to be trashy? Second, why do you need to be on TV to get on Netflix first? Is there no possible deal that could be made with Netflix for wrestling? It's a long shot, but worth a shot.

By the way I am sure people said there was no way wrestling would ever be on MTV or NBC or TNT, etc... as well.

 

The highest paid YouTubers are European video game reviewers and ASMR ladies who open toy boxes while meowing. If those are your kingpins, then Lucha VaVoom, Kaiju and Chikara stand a better chance than Jarrett does. The top attractions have millions of subscribers, and billions of views. In USD, after YouTube takes their sizable 45% cut, the ten biggest acts on Youtube make between $500K and $8 million/year. I’m not saying a wrestling company of TNA rejects can’t make money. But when your best case, virtually impossible scenario earns a couple million dollars a year (and rest assured, GFW would make far less than that), I can understand why Jarrett thinks a mediocre syndication or cable deal has more upside. Maybe that’s short-sighted, but it seems unrealistic to think that a Youtube-only wrestling show of solid hands and also-rans would triumph.

 

Yeah because a medicore syndication deal making more money with nobody watching would be as valuable as a show that would make you less money but way more viewers. It's not like you couldn't sell advertising yourself, as well. If you could get featured on youtube through some kind of deal, get the system behind you the amount of viewers you could bring in would trump any TV deal they could make.

 

Remember wrestling companies used to pay to get on TV in order to get people to watch them, so they would pay for tickets. That is a model that could work today, especially if the TV shows aren't specific TV tapings but more the old ECW model of running actual shows and making TV out of them. They could still sell vod of the shows, sell tickets so there is potential out there.

 

Also, youtube is what kids watch, it's not so much tv anymore. The viewers are growing and growing each year, while more and more people are trading in their cable boxes.

 

 

The only current free agents in wrestling capable of moving the needle are CM Punk and maybe Shane McMahon. If you’re trying to be an online sensation, who are you putting on your Times Square billboard? TNA at the peak of their financial recklessness in 2010 spent millions to get Hogan, Flair, Hardy, Bischoff, Nash, Hall, and a dozen others. It achieved less than nothing.

 

What does that have to do with anything. They still wouldn't have stars whether on TV or internet.
 

 

The real goal should be: built your own sensations from scratch, and keep costs low enough that you can afford to grow for five years and learn from mistakes. Make friends in nerd media. Get enough breathing room to make pivots as needed, and become a viable international brand by giving guys from Japan, the UK and Mexico an American platform. Most of which boils down to timing, luck, and putting microphones in front of the right people.

 

You can only do that on some weird tv channel nobody has ever heard of, or could you do it on the internet too?



#52 dawho5

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:47 PM

TV, internet, however GFW gets their shows seen is secondary to getting their shows seen.  But to me that's not the most important part.  They have to present something different than WWE, TNA, NXT, anything readily available anywhere so that it stands out enough to get noticed.  Otherwise it's just another wrestling show in a sea of wrestling shows.  I think that's why LU has had the success it has.  It's got a different flavor to it and stands out from the crowd.  Obviously this has to be accomplished in a way that can be continued into future seasons, but I think that's the most important thing they can do.  Second would be growing your own stars over time.  If they can get even two or three current midcard guys over and keep them there as new stars they will have a leg up on the WWE in that regard.  I'm not saying don't look for big names right away, but keep an eye on who your crowds (both live and whatever media outlet(s) come along) and make sure you make the new stars you can while you can.  If history is any indication the biggest issues even successful promotions have center around the ace going down unexpectedly and floundering until they return.  If people are developed from within in relation to the reactions they get from the fans maybe you have a guy ho can keep numbers from nosediving for six months to a year even if they are down while your ace heals.



#53 Phil Schneider

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 09:05 PM

The only really guys unsigned on the indies I see with real star charisma are Eddie Kingston and Nick Gage, and I can't imagine a show built around them although I would watch every second



#54 Mad Dog

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 07:23 AM

I would watch to see how long it took Kingston to fuck up and get fired.

#55 Parties

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 11:57 AM

Community is on yahoo. Hulu has Lucha Libre USA, so why can't another get on there?

Community is a former NBC show that NBC cancelled, which was then picked up by Yahoo, largely to air episodes that had already been written. The show always had bad ratings, despite critical acclaim. Lucha Libre USA’s been canceled for years and serves no threat to anyone. WWE TV is a valued NBCUniversal entity. Hulu is a Viacom, Disney, and Comcast conglomerate. Hulu has done many original series, but none of them have been at all popular. I’m not saying no one else will ever have a wrestling show on Hulu, but I do think that currently, WWE would be made aware of any such conversation and would be strongly opposed to it. WWE - and more importantly, USA - would be made livid by any attempt to bring Global Force to Hulu.

 

 

First, why does wrestling have to be trashy? Second, why do you need to be on TV to get on Netflix first? Is there no possible deal that could be made with Netflix for wrestling? It's a long shot, but worth a shot. By the way I am sure people said there was no way wrestling would ever be on MTV or NBC or TNT, etc... as well.

Destination America has unsuccessfully been trying to get TNA on Netflix since they signed the deal in December, and other programming on prior to that. Wrestling doesn’t have to be trashy, but that’s its reputation. I believe it was Victator who had the epic line, “Wrestling trying to downplay its sleaziness is like a cow denying its milk.” Wrestling got on MTV, NBC, and Turner during two absolute heights of its popularity. The Monday Night War happened (apocryphally) because Bischoff had one wingnut meeting in which Turner himself offered to give him whatever he wanted to be the highest-rated wrestling on TV, during the worst years WWE ever had. It’s a harder sell in 2015. The capital, competition, and public interest isn’t there. I totally agree that it’s worth a shot - it just seems unlikely, and I don’t think Jeff Jarrett is the guy to pull it off. And to be clear: there is no way Netflix produces wrestling as an original series. That is so far off from their branding and what they want to be. They want legitimacy in the press more than they want viewership, which is the same reason most networks and advertisers abhor wrestling. They’re trying to win Emmys. Global Force has a better chance (still zero percent) of being picked up by HBO than they do as a Netflix original.

 

That said: these situations are all quickly malleable. Rock ’n Wrestling happened because Cyndi Lauper liked Lou Albano. If Nicki Minaj takes a huge liking to Lance Hoyt, brings him with her everywhere she goes, puts him in a huge music video, and then begins herself appearing in hot angles on GFW programming, then they're made in the shade.

 

 

Yeah because a medicore syndication deal making more money with nobody watching would be as valuable as a show that would make you less money but way more viewers. It's not like you couldn't sell advertising yourself, as well. If you could get featured on youtube through some kind of deal, get the system behind you the amount of viewers you could bring in would trump any TV deal they could make.

Not sure what Jarrett’s take is, but judging from GFW’s current web presence, I’m guessing he’s a little behind the times. I absolutely agree that in the current media world, there’s more upside in being a Youtube phenom than a middling cable TV personality. The book signings and other events promoting the top online stars look like Beatlemania in the crowds they gather. I’m just not seeing anyone in GFW who could be that phenom. Maybe PJ Black or Moose as real stretches? 3-5 years ago it might have been Chael, but the bloom is off the rose, and they wouldn’t even be getting him right now if he wasn’t damaged goods. Again, the hype around today’s top online stars tends to be that of a supermodel who likes to dress like Star Wars characters. That’s an easier sell than Sonjay Dutt vs. Jigsaw. Which is why I think a more openly fun, comedic group like Lucha Vavoom would stand a better chance of crossing over right now.

 

 

Remember wrestling companies used to pay to get on TV in order to get people to watch them, so they would pay for tickets. That is a model that could work today, especially if the TV shows aren't specific TV tapings but more the old ECW model of running actual shows and making TV out of them. They could still sell vod of the shows, sell tickets so there is potential out there.

I agree that shooting a bunch of backstage segments and promotional video has become an unnecessary burden in wrestling, fueled by producers who resent that they work in wrestling and want to shoot anything but matches. That said, as the most hardcore of hardcore fans, I think we all sometimes have a tough time understanding how unpopular wrestling is right now. If Jarrett went full ECW and produced an R-rated show with top international talent, scantily clad women and innovative gimmicks, it could work. I don't think YouTube or Netflix would come calling, but it could be popular. Or it could be XPW/MLW and sink into quicksand. Your point is taken that drawing a live gate is an important goal. It's also harder than ever in a crowded landscape of companies using the same talent (and better talent to which Jarrett won't have access).

 

Regarding “paying to be on TV”: the people who nowadays pay to be on cable are wealthy buffoons who think they deserve their own reality shows. Most of which never see the light of day. Those chumps have more to spend on vanity projects than Jarrett will have to spend on his, to say nothing of how much cheaper it is to shoot a moron complaining in their kitchen than it is to produce a season of wrestling.

 

 

What does that have to do with anything. They still wouldn't have stars whether on TV or internet.

NYC is currently plastered with Youtube/Simon & Schuster’s posters of Grace Helbig, Shane Dawson, Michelle Phan, and ASAPScience. TNA was lousy in their approach, but at least they could put Hulk Hogan on a poster. Who could Jarrett get right now that matters one iota to NY/LA media? The only other option is to build stars from scratch, which takes incredible luck, cultural cache, and skillful work. Wrestling Society X and Lucha Libre USA had rosters as good as GFW’s, and they flopped. Lucha Underground has superior star power, and they’re not setting the world ablaze. If Lucha Underground was web-only right now, would they be doing better? Impossible to say, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

You can only do that on some weird tv channel nobody has ever heard of, or could you do it on the internet too?

I agree with your sentiment. Online is the future, or at least some cross-pollination of web and TV. You can do it online if you’re brilliantly innovative, broadly approachable, and well-marketed. I just don’t think Jarrett’s that guy, or that anyone currently in wrestling seems eager to try what you’re proposing. YouTube has recently built enormous production studios that could easily house wrestling and market it to the fullest... but why would they right now? Roddy Piper was talking on Cabana's podcast about how he's gonna do a talk show with them, void of wrestling, and even that sounded vague and delusional. If anyone gets there, I suspect it'll be a more media-savvy group like Lucha Vavoom or even PWG, on the strength of their ties to Hollywood comedians, rather than a fairly conventional “TNA Part Deux” show.



#56 KrisZ

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 04:38 PM

Ask the major sports leagues how important TV still is.....



#57 goc

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 04:52 PM

Ask the major sports leagues how important TV still is.....

Well yea but that's because they can get big money from advertisers. Wrestling can't. Vince McMahon thought he was going to get sports money when he went through his latest negotiation with USA and it didn't work out for him. Definitely won't work out for an unknown commodity or even one with a decent history of getting over a million people to watch their show every week like TNA.



#58 PeteF3

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 04:56 PM

I think the more accurate statement would be, "Ask TV how important the major sports leagues are."



#59 Johnny Guitar

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 05:41 PM

Regardless of which format, TV, internet. GFW choose to broadcast their product on. I'm more interested how they present it.

 

TNA throughout their history has mainly been a mish mash of WWF,WCW & ECW circa 1998 - 2001, which really hasn't worked. ROH's style is very niche and isn't really conductive to a main stream audience.

 

I'd love to see GFW produce a more modern take on JCP/WCW, circa 83 to 93 or Smackdown 2006. But thats probably outdated and the audience for that has long since departed.



#60 WingedEagle

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Posted 14 May 2015 - 07:56 PM

I think the more accurate statement would be, "Ask TV how important the major sports leagues are."

 

Framing it both ways has its merits, but the answer is always the money.  If GFW or any promotion could receive funding sufficient to run its operations from going the online route I'm sure they would. 

 

That's not to say they've all necessarily been prudent enough to explore it, but its also silly to compare a minor league wrestling promotion with a show like Community, which even if it received horrible television ratings still had an established fan base of X million viewers, which forms a base from which an online site can project certain viewership and dollars from bringing it aboard. 






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