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Women in the WWE


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#1 Grimmas

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 10:27 AM

So why can't women headline WWE ppvs again?



#2 Matt D

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 10:30 AM

Because of this?

 

During my time on the WWE creative team, we actually were told that there really are no babyfaces or heels in the Divas division. It was strongly implied that the Divas are all just a bunch of catty chicks, most of whom are mentally unstable.

 

http://kevineckwrest...r-creative.html



#3 Grimmas

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 11:20 AM

Because of this?

 

 

 

During my time on the WWE creative team, we actually were told that there really are no babyfaces or heels in the Divas division. It was strongly implied that the Divas are all just a bunch of catty chicks, most of whom are mentally unstable.

 

http://kevineckwrest...r-creative.html

So, the company is fucked is the reason.

 

Well yeah, but they have no real excuses, do they?

 

If I was the WWE, I'd be building around Charlotte and Sasha going forward just as much as Roman.



#4 sek69

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 11:24 PM

The more women's matches we get in NXT like this one, the more depressing it becomes to realize once you get to the main roster it doesn't matter work wise if you're Sasha Banks or Eva Marie. Until they're allowed to be characters with different traits instead of interchangeable "divas" who are just catty bitches who hate each other, nothing will change.



#5 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:50 AM

So why can't women headline WWE ppvs again?

I think people are over estimating just how much of the regular WWE audience would accept that. I mean, I guess they could eventually get there but it would seriously take at least a full year of reconditioning the audience to not see the Divas as the chance to go buy merchandise/food.

 

And even then I'm not sure because the most "hardcore smark" crowd all year is the post-Mania Raw crowd and they are the ones who completely shit on the Divas and treated like they only exist to have sex with the male roster.



#6 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:53 AM

 

So why can't women headline WWE ppvs again?

I think people are over estimating just how much of the regular WWE audience would accept that. I mean, I guess they could eventually get there but it would seriously take at least a full year of reconditioning the audience to not see the Divas as the chance to go buy merchandise/food.

 

And even then I'm not sure because the most "hardcore smark" crowd all year is the post-Mania Raw crowd and they are the ones who completely shit on the Divas and treated like they only exist to have sex with the male roster.

 

I'm not saying tomorrow, I'm saying over time with re-conditioning.

 

I discount your hardcore smark crowd, because that is what NXT is and it works there.



#7 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:00 AM

A whole lot of stuff works in NXT that doesn't work on the main roster. Full Sail is like the NXT iMPACT Zone at this point. It's not a genuine barometer of what will and won't work because it's the same audience every taping.

 

There is still a fairly significant portion of fans, even hardcore fans who post on message boards, who are in the "I don't care about women's wrestling" camp and won't ever change their mind just like there are a lot of people who will never like lucha.



#8 Matt D

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:19 AM

A whole lot of stuff works in NXT that doesn't work on the main roster. Full Sail is like the NXT iMPACT Zone at this point. It's not a genuine barometer of what will and won't work because it's the same audience every taping.

 

There is still a fairly significant portion of fans, even hardcore fans who post on message boards, who are in the "I don't care about women's wrestling" camp and won't ever change their mind just like there are a lot of people who will never like lucha.

 

There are also two other elements, the first being that a lot of things that do work in NXT work because they were built to. That can be a small thing like Emma starting out as a heel trying to yell at the crowd but winning them over after a taping or two with her awkward attempt at things. Or it could be a big thing like Bo Dallas pushed as a top babyface for two years as the crowd slowly turned against him, until they were able to run with the delusional character that didn't realize it. Then when both came to the main roster, they came up fully developed without the work the fans needed to buy into what they were. Obviously, it wasn't going to be successful.

 

The second is sabotage but that's another story.



#9 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:08 AM

A whole lot of stuff works in NXT that doesn't work on the main roster. Full Sail is like the NXT iMPACT Zone at this point. It's not a genuine barometer of what will and won't work because it's the same audience every taping.

 

There is still a fairly significant portion of fans, even hardcore fans who post on message boards, who are in the "I don't care about women's wrestling" camp and won't ever change their mind just like there are a lot of people who will never like lucha.

 

Things work for two reasons in NXT: 

 

1) Stuff is tailored to hardcore fans.

 

2) Things have been built up and the fans have been conditioned to like it over time.

 

Women's wrestling is something that can be conditioned to be liked and the hardcore fans like it. There is no non-sexist reason that the WWE could not headline some shows with women in the future.

 

If there is, please let me know.



#10 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:11 AM

I think women's wrestling is a niche that doesn't appeal to the entire WWE audience. It has a place on the card but not as the main event. The Raw audience is a lot bigger than just the hardcore fans.

 

It's not even a blanket statement that "all" hardcore fans like women's wrestling. I see enough posts on message boards of hardcore fans who pretty much dismiss women's wrestling altogether.



#11 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:27 AM

I think women's wrestling is a niche that doesn't appeal to the entire WWE audience. It has a place on the card but not as the main event. The Raw audience is a lot bigger than just the hardcore fans.

 

It's not even a blanket statement that "all" hardcore fans like women's wrestling. I see enough posts on message boards of hardcore fans who pretty much dismiss women's wrestling altogether.

How does the WWE differ from UFC for audiences? 

 

Yes, women's wrestling is seen that way now. That is why you have to re-condition the fans. Why is that not possible?



#12 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:41 AM

I just don't think it is. As far as the UFC comparison, it's really Ronda Rousey that is popular not so much women competing in general.

 

I loved El Torito vs. Hornswoggle and I have been saying ever since then that I think they should do more with El Torito. But I wouldn't think WWE can get midget wrestling to the point where it can main event PPVs.

 

Of course I fully expect people to come and flame me for comparing women's wrestling to midget wrestling but I think they are both niches that you use to complement your card, not things to build it around.

 

Even in the hardcore fan world, ROH & PWG are way more popular than SHIMMER.



#13 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 10:11 AM

I just don't think it is. As far as the UFC comparison, it's really Ronda Rousey that is popular not so much women competing in general.

 

I loved El Torito vs. Hornswoggle and I have been saying ever since then that I think they should do more with El Torito. But I wouldn't think WWE can get midget wrestling to the point where it can main event PPVs.

 

Of course I fully expect people to come and flame me for comparing women's wrestling to midget wrestling but I think they are both niches that you use to complement your card, not things to build it around.

 

Even in the hardcore fan world, ROH & PWG are way more popular than SHIMMER.

Sasha or Charlotte can not be Rousey? 

 

I don't see how you can think women's wrestling has to be niche, when in NXT, it is shown it can be on equal footing.

 

Also, comparing ROH/PWG to SHIMMER is so far off point. SHIMMER is completely a women's promotion and is nothing like the others.



#14 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 10:13 AM

NXT itself is a niche. It's catered solely to hardcore fans. I don't think you can make Raw a 3 hour version of NXT and have that work.



#15 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 10:19 AM

NXT itself is a niche. It's catered solely to hardcore fans. I don't think you can make Raw a 3 hour version of NXT and have that work.

I'm not saying you should. 

 

What I am saying is that if you treat women with respect and give them opportunities and treat their matches as actual respectful matches, then after time, you should be able to headline some B-ppvs with women.

 

Why is that not something worth trying?



#16 goc

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 10:26 AM

 

NXT itself is a niche. It's catered solely to hardcore fans. I don't think you can make Raw a 3 hour version of NXT and have that work.

I'm not saying you should. 

 

What I am saying is that if you treat women with respect and give them opportunities and treat their matches as actual respectful matches, then after time, you should be able to headline some B-ppvs with women.

 

Why is that not something worth trying?

 

I have no problem with them doing those things I just don't see how (or why) it leads to them main eventing a B-PPV.

 

I just straight up don't believe that a B-PPV headlined by women has the same drawing power. I've not seen anything to think that there is really that much interest in women's wrestling from the entire WWE audience. This is the same audience who chanted "You suck Cena" and "You suck Tyson" at Nikki Bella & Natalya.



#17 Badlittlekitten

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:30 AM

[quote name="Grimmas" post="5669868" timestamp="1432570743"][quote name="goc" post="5669866"
Why is that not something worth trying?[/quote]

Because it's too much work. There's dozens more immediate problems they should be focusing on before the women.

#18 Grimmas

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:32 AM

[quote name="goc" post="5669866"
Why is that not something worth trying?


Because it's too much work. There's dozens more immediate problems they should be focusing on before the women.

I think the treatment of women by the WWE actually turns off a percentage of their viewers, so it should be an immediate issue.



#19 Dylan Waco

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:38 AM

What evidence is there that a large percentage of people are turned off by the WWE's treatment of women?



#20 Badlittlekitten

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:47 AM

Which women on the roster should be headlining anyway? Sasha and Lynch had a good match on their developmental show. So now they should be carrying main event programs?




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