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Comparing dissimilar wrestlers


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#1 Loss

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 06:02 PM

I have enjoyed the comparison threads, but I think comparing wrestlers who are not usually compared to each other might be fun too. I'll put all of them in one thread. So here are the ones I'm curious about.

 

Rey Mysterio or Yoshiaki Fujiwara?

Randy Savage or Shinya Hashimoto?

Jerry Lawler or El Hijo del Santo?

Terry Funk or Negro Casas?

Bobby Eaton or Virus?

Bill Dundee or Eddy Guerrero?

William Regal or Tully Blanchard?

Atsushi Onita or Vader?

Buddy Rose or Johnny Saint?

Bret Hart or Ted DiBiase?

Steve Austin or Riki Choshu?

Jushin Liger or Volk Han?



#2 Dylan Waco

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:54 PM

I'll try and take these one or two at a time for the next several days

 

Rey Mysterio or Yoshiaki Fujiwara?

 

I think in some respects these two are similar in that they both helped create/spread a certain style to a larger audience.  I also think both of these guys are among the best defensive wrestlers of all time, but with Fujiwara his defensiveness came across as a strategic fighting posture, whereas with Rey it was all about timing great bumps and selling.  I still contend that when it comes to good matches Rey has likely had more make tape than any wrestler in history and he did it against a huge variety of people.  Just looking at his output and diversity of opponents from 2009 alone (where he missed a year due to a wellness violation) is incredible, and that is one year.  Against most people I would say that Fujiwara has the clear advantage when it comes to level of difficulty, and I still would give him that here because shootstyle is really hard to do super well, but Rey was doing crazy shit as a kid.  Fujiwara's peak matches, his facial expressions, his ability to work with the non-initiated in compelling ways, all should not be discounted.  Still the various reinventions of Rey, the areas where he excels that few people talk about - getting over feuds (v. Punk, Jericho, JBL, et.), his brawling, his adaptability up and down the card - make it impossible for me to rate Fujiwara over him at the moment.  I really need to watch a bigger chunk of peak Fujiwara because the gap isn't very big, but I could be the high voter on Rey in GWE.



#3 benjaminkicks

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:00 PM

Randy Savage or Shinya Hashimoto?


I have Hashimoto above Savage.

Savage has some all time character and promo work, and in his prime he was fantastic in the ring, but Hashimoto is like my ideal wrestler. Just a complete asskicker who always felt legit, and always brought that "big match feel" wherever he worked.

For comparison, I'll most likely have Savage somewhere in the 15-30 range on my GWE project, and Hashimoto is pretty much a lock for top 10, possibly top 5.

#4 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 12:55 AM

Rey Mysterio or Yoshiaki Fujiwara?

 

Fujiwara, and I'm not sure it's close. One of the greatest mat wrestlers of all-time, mixed a stand-up game with defensive prowess, and was equally adept at brawling and working carny, pro-style bouts. I suppose the only thing keeping him from being a complete all-rounder is the fact he didn't take to the air, but that's about as novel as Satanico doing a tope. Rey is good, but he worked a more choreographed style and I don't think he has the brawling skills or mat work to match Fujiwara. I also don't see an argument for Rey being a great luchador per se, and while that won't mean much to others it means something to me. 

 

Randy Savage or Shinya Hashimoto?

 

Hashimoto in a heartbeat. I don't have a lot of negative things to say about Savage, but I will say that I prefer his mid-80s work to the matches he had later on. I especially found the 1997 DDP feud extremely disappointing during the WCW poll. Hashimoto was just an absolute force. Don't get me started on Hashimoto or I'll start gushing about bushido and Japanese concepts of masculinity and all sorts of shit. I don't know if anyone's gone through 90s NJPW with a fine tooth comb, but my only criticism of Hashimoto would be that he doesn't have the deepest back catalogue of great matches. But then neither does Savage really. 

 

Jerry Lawler or El Hijo del Santo?

 

I'm not sure these two are really so dissimilar, but I'd probably lean towards Santo as there are clear periods I enjoy (early 90s UWA period, '96-97 CMLL, sporadic 00s) whereas with Lawler I'm really only interested in his prime Memphis work. Peak vs. peak, head-to-head, it would be interesting to compare a Lawler Memphis feud complete with blowoff match against a Santo feud complete with apuesta match, but we don't have the footage for Santo. Both were formula guys and both excelled at brawls. Santo has the execution and spectacular moves and is better on the mat, though not great by any stretch of the imagination. I'd lean towards Santo.

 

Terry Funk or Negro Casas?


Terry is entertaining. I could watch nothing but Funk promos and be entertained. But I've never thought he has the matches. They just don't exist on tape. Casas was (and most would argue still is) a genius, and there is plenty of Casas on tape. You could maybe argue that Terry is better offensively as I think Casas is better at selling than he is at actually wrestling, and irrespective of what I said about Terry not having the matches, you could probably match up his best matches alongside Casas without Funk coming off second best, but the constant run at Arena Mexico has more weight for me. This is really tough, though. 
 

Bobby Eaton or Virus?

 

Virus. Bobby Eaton has never had a singles match as good as Virus' ten best singles bouts, and I can't think of a single area where Virus doesn't match or better Eaton. 

 

Bill Dundee or Eddy Guerrero?

 

​Aside from the Sir William stuff, I'm only really familiar with Dundee through one feud. It's an all-time great feud with great promos, great TV and great arena matches, but it's still only one feud. I'm not a massive Eddy fan and the idea of watching Dundee is far more appealing to me, but I probably couldn't take Dundee in good faith. My only reservation is that Eddy is increasingly a one feud guy for me since I don't care a lot about him outside of his work against Mysterio. 

 

William Regal or Tully Blanchard?

 

This is tough. I like both of these guys. They're the kind of guys where you can throw on a random match and usually find yourself enjoying it, and actually my frustration with both guys is the same: a limited pool of great matches. Tully's a better studio wrestler in my view, but overall Regal was probably the more talented wrestler since Tully spent most of his matches backtracking before cheating to win. I'm a bit guarded over Regal since I think his influences were better workers, but I'll give him the points victory over Tully. I will say if you consider brawls, Tully was better. Regal had the tools to be a great brawler, but he never really got the opportunities to show it. 

 

Atsushi Onita or Vader?


Vader, but only because I like his Bull Power stuff and was never into Onita matches. Vader wouldn't rate that highly for me otherwise. When he's not potatoing people I find a lot of his stuff staged, but it doesn't get much more staged than explosions. 
 

I'll finish the rest later, or not...



#5 Jetlag

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 02:55 AM

I agree with most of what OJ has said. So I'll try this...

 

Buddy Rose or Johnny Saint?

 

Rose. Not even close. I really like Saint as a flashy, trippy worker and his best matches are probably better than Roses, but even watching a limited sample of Buddy you can tell he is infinitely more versatile, gets good matches out of limited opponents and most importantly doesn't annoy you with endless smirks and jokes. Besides that Saint carrying a territory sounds like a nightmare. It also helps that Rose was able to have gritty, bloody matches and knew proper tag structure. Rose grinding his knuckles into Piper's bloody forehead is better than Saint busting Breaks' nose, Rose and Wiskowski team is better than messy WoS tags, Rose vs. Martel is a better rookie/vet match than Saint/Brookside. Etc. You could argue Saint has a longer career and wrestled in many different places, but he never really changed up his style.

 

Steve Austin or Riki Choshu?

 

Choshu. I like WCW Austin quite a bit and Austin vs. Angle is one of the best performances from a heel I've seen in a WWE match. But frantic japanese heavyweight wrestling beats Attitude Era brawls and for technician vs. brawler Fujinami/Choshu is atleast as good as Austin/Hart. Choshu/Fujiwara is a better spectacle than any Austin spectacle. Choshu "lariating a small house down" against Hashimoto is a moment I like more than anything but a handful of others in wrestling history. Choshu kept delivering goodies even into the 2000s. Austin was a good worker in a shitty environment who got the most out of it, but throw Choshu into any matchup and it becomes dynamite.

 

Jushin Liger or Volk Han?

 

I wanted to say Han on instinct, but it's a pretty close matchup. The main deciding factor would be style for me. Liger as a one-armed maniac vs. Sano or demolishing Ohtani with palm strikes is great. Liger doing throwaway matwork and forgettable move trading in standard junior matches doesn't really help his case at all. So I think Average Han destroys Average Liger. Liger has the longer career and more diverse types matches, such as the NOAH feud. I think if there was more stuff like Liger vs. Aoyagi he would get ahead of Han comfortably. But looking at the core Han is the better worker.

 

I don't think these are that outlandish. Comparing Top WWF guy to Second Best 80s Japan Guy or Top Junior to Top RINGS guy isn't that outlandish.

 

Let's look at these:

 

Akira Taue or Black Terry?

Akira Hokuto or Pirata Morgan?

Ricky Steamboat or Finlay?

Necro Butcher or Ron Garvin?

Tamon Honda or Villano III?



#6 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 04:10 AM

Buddy Rose or Johnny Saint?


Yeah, Buddy in a cake walk. I don't like the way Buddy lies in holds but that's the only weakness in this comparison. Saint was in some great matches but they were mostly due to the match-ups and not carry jobs. Even the Brookside match is against an incredibly game young man. I will say that it's equally effective as the Martel stuff albeit in a different style, and there is one tag from the early 70s I'd rate as better than any Rose tag I've seen, but I wouldn't give Saint the credit for that. The deciding factor, aside from the overwhelming number of lousy Saint matches, is that the extent of Saint's character work was that he is Johnny Saint compared to the whole Playboy character. There's also a misconception that Saint *is* British wrestling, which I pretty much loathe, but I don't think it's fair for that to creep into the comparison even though I just let it.

#7 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 06:48 AM

Bret Hart or Ted DiBiase?

 

This is tough since I just watched the Dibiase/TA Magnum matches the other day whereas I haven't bothered to watch a Bret match in years. Bret was, at one time, my favourite wrestler, but I've long since made my peace about that. I'd draw the line at this: Bret got the most out of his ability by becoming a multiple time champion whereas Dibiase never fulfilled his potential. Dibiase was more talented, but Bret believed in his shit more. So, I'd probably take Bret. 

 

Steve Austin or Riki Choshu?

 

Choshu is a big, dumb, goofy worker who's fun to watch because he's so over not necessarily because he's good. His charisma adds buckets loads to his bouts. If you don't buy into that, he's as boring as shit. Austin is far more visceral. He was the closest thing to a modern day Texan as wrestling allows. Part Terry Funk, part Hansen, part Murdoch, part whomever else. Choshu was an amazing foil for some amazing wrestlers. Coin flip? I'll choose Austin on the basis that if you uncovered footage from both guys worth watching I'd be more interested in the Austin you uncovered. 

 

Jushin Liger or Volk Han?

 

Bad timing since I've hated Liger's work in Reslo. Liger is boring whereas Volk is the supreme master. By all sensible standards Liger should be the winner here, but he's not a guy I hold in the same esteem as Volk. Liger reached a peak with the Sano feud and it was downhill from there. Volk kept pushing the shoot style form until it became an art. One strikes me as an artist while the other is kind of eager. I choose Volk for his wizardry. 



#8 NintendoLogic

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:33 PM

Choshu is a big, dumb, goofy worker who's fun to watch because he's so over not necessarily because he's good. His charisma adds buckets loads to his bouts. If you don't buy into that, he's as boring as shit.

 

I agree with this. Choshu's supposed off-the-charts charisma has always been lost on me, so I've always found him pretty dull.



#9 Parties

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 10:08 AM

The Choshu-Austin comparison is a really interesting, in that I sometimes think Choshu is basically the Hogan of Japan. Or perhaps more accurately, he's an '80s Japan version of Stone Cold. His in-ring talent has been overstated, or kind of cross-pollinated with his far greater ability to draw heat and be the right character for his time. His best matches tend to be things where his partners and opponents totally outclass him. I'm not a moves guy, but I would argue that his moveset is too limited, and that even his best matches can feel repetitive as a result. That said, I don't think Austin's ever had matches as good as Choshu's best, and I'm always hard-pressed to name the great Austin performances outside of his 3-5 best known outings (SS '96, WM 13, Angle at Summerslam, etc.)



#10 Quentin Skinner

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 12:20 PM

These are all some very interesting comparisons, I'll answer two of them and also leave a few of my own.

 

Randy Savage vs Shinya Hashimoto?

 

While Randy was good in the ring and in my opinion, a top five promo of all time, I'll have to give the edge to Shinya on this one. I always loved the way he worked and I can think of more matches I thought were "great" from him than I can for Savage and Savage had some really disappointing years in ring wise in WCW as well which hurts his stock in my view. 

 

William Regal vs Tully Blanchard?

 

Two very under-appreciated talents. For this comparison I think I'll have to go with Blanchard. While both were definitely great as workers, very consistent  and  very underrated talkers for a very long time, I'm hard-pressed to think of many "great" matches from either guy because of the limited opportunities they got to really shine. With all that being said, the reason I give Blanchard the edge is because in my mind he was so great the role of the "chicken shit" heel and I can think of more memorable matches from him than I can for Regal.

 

A few that I've thought up myself

 

Minoru Suzuki vs Christopher Daniels 

 

Bryan Danielson vs Rob Van Dam

 

KENTA vs Chris Jericho

 

"Dr. Death" Steve Williams vs Tommy Rich

 

Curt Hennig vs Jun Akiyama



#11 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:59 PM

Akira Taue or Black Terry?

Akira Hokuto or Pirata Morgan?

Ricky Steamboat or Finlay?

 

I've never seen Necro or Tamon Honda, so I can only do the first three.

 

Taue over Terry on the basis that we have hardly anything from Terry's first three decades and what we do have isn't outstanding. In fact, I often come away enjoying José Luis Feliciano more than Terry in those Temerarios bouts. If we're talking about his peak IWRG character work and brawls, then Terry is probably one of my favourite all-time characters, but it's hard for me isolate that run and say it's better than Taue's output. Terry is better on the mat, which is a clear advantage in my books, though aside from his stuff against Hechicero, I think he matches up better with smaller opponents than bigger men or even other maestros, and he's as guilty of your turn/my turn matwork as anyone I've ever seen. His real strength is brawling, but I actually think Taue was a pretty good brawler himself, so I can't even convince myself that Terry deserves to go ahead based on quality of work.

 

I'd also take Hokuto over Morgan. Hokuto is a rare case of someone who actually enjoyed high concept storytelling. Admittedly, some of it is a bit repetitive when you go back and watch it now, but she's one of the few wrestlers I can think of who really achieved storytelling in wrestling and not just a simple narrative without much consequence. I don't like her quite as much as I did when I was first getting into foreign wrestling, but Morgan has maybe five good years on tape. That's not enough to sway me. He was a huge talent though. I think his technical ability is a bit overrated in comparison to his bumping skills and brawling ability, but he was good enough at mat wrestling that you'd have to consider him an all-rounder or what Meltzer would call a complete worker. But something like Hokuto/Kandori is on a whole 'nother level from even vintage lucha apuesta matches, so Hokuto takes this based on the depth of her work and storytelling. I might even take her post-baby work over Morgan's post '93 stuff too.

 

Finally, Steamboat over Finlay even though I feel a bit dirty for saying so. I normally don't like wrestlers like Steamboat -- pure babyface, shoddy acting skills, questionable offence -- but I really like Steamboat at various points of his career and he left on a high instead of sticking around and eradicating the memories of when he was good. Young Finlay was as athletic as Steamboat and a great worker, but the Fit Finlay shtick he developed with Paula ruined about 10 years of his career until he wound up fighting Regal in WCW. I'll accept that the formula made him a star, drew a lot of heat and was responsible for plenty of bookings and more cash in his pocket, but aesthetically it was one of the bigger wastes of talent I can remember. Some of his more recent stuff hasn't held up that well for me either, or mabye I'm just clinging to my enjoyment of his first Riot Squad run too much. The biggest plus he has over Steamboat is that his offence is better. I can't imagine him working face any better than Steamboat could work heel so they kind of cancel each other out in regard to range. Steamboat shone brighter as a babyface compared to FInlay as a heel, so he's my pick.



#12 elliott

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:45 AM

Bumping this thread because comparing dissimilar wrestlers is more fun than the usual Misawa vs Kobashi or Casas vs Santo questions. So I figured I'd throw some comps out there.

 

Ricky Morton or Volk Han?

Rey Mysterio Jr or Genichiro Tenryu?

Daniel Bryan or Jumbo Tsuruta?

Low Ki or Brock Lesnar?

Necro Butcher or Harley Race?



#13 SmartMark15

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:23 AM

 

Daniel Bryan or Jumbo Tsuruta?

 

This is a tough one as I'm a big fan of both. I'd personally have to go with Daniel Bryan. Now, full disclosure, I've seen much more footage of Bryan than Tsuruta but I do love what Tsuruta brings to the table. There's a calm certainty about him in the ring that works really well in the ring and he also strikes with an urgency and impact that sells the weight of pretty much everything in the match. Grumpy Tsuruta against the youngins led by Misawa might be one of the greatest characters in-ring of all time. Perhaps I just haven't seen the match but Tsuruta's big hole (certainly due to his booking as well) is that he was never able to really garner any real sympathy in the ring from his selling.

 

Bryan, however, was a guy who seemed to excel in most any role that he was given to fill. In ROH, he played the cocky champion from 05-06, then he was the babyface ace that stood head and shoulders above most other talent from 07 onwards. In WWE, he made for a great chickenshit heel, as well as probably one of the most over and successful underdog babyfaces of all time. While Tsuruta definitely takes the cake for longevity, I feel the quality of Bryan's peak stuff and the variety of it helps him stand out.

 

 

Low Ki or Brock Lesnar?

 

I love how both these guys bring a sense of urgency and legitimacy to a match. Any time they're in the ring, you feel a unique sense of danger from them that comes naturally from both their skill and the aura that their personas present. Now, you can take a look at my ***** and ****3/4 list to know that I feel that Brock's peak stuff certainly outweighs Ki's. Brock's second run with WWE has been one of the absolute best in wrestling history in terms of match quality.

 

While I believe Low Ki has been a fairly more consistent performer than Brock (2016 was a fairly abysmal year for Brock), I think that I'll pick Brock for a couple of things. Brock's generally been much better at laying out a match to milk the most possible drama and heat out of it. Given the right opponent of course. Brock's been able to sustain this image of him as a badass destroyer of worlds even despite terrible performances (vs. Taker from Mania XXX, vs. Ambrose) and despite being made to look completely vulnerable (vs. Goldberg). Ki, because of his booking in mid-00s ROH and X Division TNA, is more prone to having more spot-heavy matches. Ki has also yet to be put on a match (that I've seen) that's felt as spectacle driven as say Brock vs. Cena from SummerSlam 2014. 



#14 Microstatistics

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:30 AM

 

Ricky Morton or Volk Han?

 

No comparison, Volk Han hands down.

 

 

 

Rey Mysterio Jr or Genichiro Tenryu?
 

 

Rey is amazing but Tenryu is a GOAT contender for me, so Tenryu

 

 

Daniel Bryan or Jumbo Tsuruta?
 

 

This is harder but I'll go Bryan. While, Jumbo is an all time great but Bryan is the best US wrestler ever and the best wrestler since 2000.

 

 


Low Ki or Brock Lesnar?

 

 

 

Brock Lesnar, easily. Tremendous pro wrestler. Not a fan of Ki, I find him very overrated

 


Necro Butcher or Harley Race?

 

Necro Butcher. I checked him out post-GWE and he surprised the hell out of me. I used to think he was just a gorefest type death match wrestler but he really is a superb pro wrestler. Excellent bumper, great punches, very good seller, had great matches with people I am not particularly high on (Super Dragon, Ki, Toby Klein). Not a fan of Harley Race, I find him boring unless he is against a super worker like Terry Funk or Jumbo.

 

 

I didn't realize this thread existed during GWE.






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