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Charlotte vs The Miz


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Poll: Charlotte vs The Miz (48 member(s) have cast votes)

Who is better?

  1. Charlotte (24 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. The Miz (24 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

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#21 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:25 PM


 

Originally posted by C.S.

 I thought Miz had the potential to be a great face

 

Care to elaborate a little? Curious to hear your take on it. Outside of the whole "social media ambassador" thing, I never really got it.

 

Not to speak for C.S., but I had the same feeling.

 

It was around WM27 when Miz was main eventing. They had that video package set to Nas at WM that chronicled his entire career from The Real World to WM main eventer, touching on all the garbage he had to get through to reach that point. It occurred to me that his was a cool redemption story, and could be used to turn him babyface in the future (at the time I thought MANY years in the future) if they played it like that. A guy overcoming all the odds, and everyone shitting all over him, to make it to the top. Plus he is a polished public speaker, good company ambassador, and outside of WWE is a likeable personality.

 

Then he actually turned babyface about 18 months later, and it flopped because:

 

- He turned babyface for no reason.

- They didn't use his story to harness any goodwill or sympathy with the audience.

- The inherent problems of the WWE midcard merry-go-round.

- Miz, in wrestling, is just flat out unlikeable and couldn't find a way to come off as a face or sympathetic.

- Annoying shit like trying to give him the Figure Four.

 

Maybe I was wrong and he'd never make a face. He's just an annoying guy who's face you want to punch. Maybe they just tried it at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. I don't know.



#22 Matt D

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:31 PM

I actually think the crowd really wanted to cheer for Miz at that Survivor Series and he got one big offensive flurry and then just became another guy in the match. If they had given him a meaningful, dominant night that night things could have been different. Maybe not hugely different, but at least different. 

 

Thinking about all this actually bumped up Cesaro on my GOAT list for having that miracle feud with him.



#23 WingedEagle

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:43 PM

If you're referring to the '11 Survivor Series, no one wanted to cheer for Miz.  People in the house wanted any excuse to pop for Rock (and Punk that night as well, especially once Finkel was there), and because of the Rock issue were even more adamant than usual about heeling Cena.  Miz & Truth were just vehicles for that. 



#24 Matt D

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 08:01 PM

I mean the 2012 Survivor Series. That crowd was hot for him and he came in with a lot of fire. And then he got Barrett and then was pinned like it was nothing and that was that. 



#25 WingedEagle

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 08:31 PM

My bad.



#26 dedhemingway

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 01:35 AM

Miz is another guy I tend to be much higher on than most people I run into online. I think they had a real shot to make him a long term, top level, heel, although that's not something they really do anymore. He's great as a cowardly asshole, cocky, smarmy, chickenshit. I think he was great in his run with the belt, and the stuff with Cena was very good. He worked well with the 'you will not overlook me' stuff. He's adequate in that role in the ring.

 

He's a terrible face, though, and, while I understand why they tried to turn him, as he's a great ambassador outside the ring, it just never worked out.

 

At this point, Charlotte isn't anywhere close to the best woman they have in the company, I don't think she's as good as some other people do, definitely not on the level of Banks or Lynch (and arguably Bayley), and I don't think she's better than Miz was at his best.



#27 Parties

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 08:28 AM

There was a period while teaming with Morrison on ECW when I thought that the Miz had improved a lot. His punches looked good, his running clothesline in the corner came off as violent, and he had a bruiser attitude toward the fans in which he was the credible "tough" guy of the team. But the last six years or so have just killed him as a credible act. I've been re-listening to Observer Radio eps from late 2010/early 2011. Miz is the poster child of that era, where things occasionally got over (like Lawler's miracle run for the title) in spite of horrendous booking and terrible characters. Even the big WM run against Cena looks terrible in hindsight, and these were the highlights of his career to date. We can all easily rag on how bad RAW can be in 2015, but 2010-2011 RAW was considerably worse, including Miz at the top of the card. And I say that as someone who thinks he can be very good on the mic, and was at his best during that run. He cut that great promo where he walked from the back to the ring in a single framed shot in which he shoot-trashed JBL for mocking him in the locker room and told all of his haters to go to hell.

 

I have some problems with Charlotte. She's got zero charisma and is still figuring out who she should be and how she should work. But I think that's totally forgivable given her lack of experience, and there's a lot more to be excited about in her right now than in the last five years of Miz. This is a pretty tough call in that as others have said, peak Miz is better than peak Charlotte. But it's almost unfair to compare them, as Miz has almost ten years of experience on her and has been given so many chances to succeed. For that reason alone I'm inclined to vote Charlotte, as a heavily pushed guy with 12 years in the business should be much better than someone with 3.



#28 C.S.

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 01:57 PM

Sorry for not responding to all of this sooner. Kept meaning to reply all weekend but time got away from me.

 

Before I get into the posts addressed to me, I want to add my own answer to this question directed toward another poster:

 

 

You would take Miz over Charlotte when building a company?

 

I absolutely would, and so would anyone else who has a business-oriented mind with their goal on the bottom line.

 

Women do not draw right now! Do they have the potential to draw in the future? Yes. Could a forward-thinking executive turn them into major draws? Yes. Are they awesome wrestlers capable of having great matches? Yes - well, sometimes, depending on who we're talking about (but that's true of the men too).

 

The fallacy that they drew the most ratings in TNA means nothing to me. They may very well have drawn the most ratings, but the fact is, nothing really drew in TNA, and nothing has ever mattered there! No legitimate businessman will use TNA as an example of anything, except maybe as a template of what not to do. TNA is a joke.

 

Looking longterm, I'd absolutely want Charlotte on my roster. But if I'm playing with my money today and looking to build a company today, Miz easily gets the call before her. It's a no-brainer. In addition to getting a fantastic heel with face potential - more on that below - there are so many ways he could get my hypothetical product exposure (talk shows, reality shows, movies, etc.). Charlotte is good too, don't get me wrong, but she still needs more seasoning. Miz is a ready-made asset.

 

Of course, in real life, there's no reason this would have to be an either/or question. If they were somehow both free agents, anyone with brains would sign them both.

 


 

Originally posted by C.S.

 I thought Miz had the potential to be a great face

 

Care to elaborate a little? Curious to hear your take on it. Outside of the whole "social media ambassador" thing, I never really got it.

 

I'll preface my post with this one below, as he covered a lot of the same ground before I had a chance to get to it:

 

Not to speak for C.S., but I had the same feeling.

 

It was around WM27 when Miz was main eventing. They had that video package set to Nas at WM that chronicled his entire career from The Real World to WM main eventer, touching on all the garbage he had to get through to reach that point. It occurred to me that his was a cool redemption story, and could be used to turn him babyface in the future (at the time I thought MANY years in the future) if they played it like that. A guy overcoming all the odds, and everyone shitting all over him, to make it to the top. Plus he is a polished public speaker, good company ambassador, and outside of WWE is a likeable personality.

 

Then he actually turned babyface about 18 months later, and it flopped because:

 

- He turned babyface for no reason.

- They didn't use his story to harness any goodwill or sympathy with the audience.

- The inherent problems of the WWE midcard merry-go-round.

- Miz, in wrestling, is just flat out unlikeable and couldn't find a way to come off as a face or sympathetic.

- Annoying shit like trying to give him the Figure Four.

 

Maybe I was wrong and he'd never make a face. He's just an annoying guy who's face you want to punch. Maybe they just tried it at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. I don't know.

 

For me, it started with Tough Enough. There was one segment near the end where the contestants remaining (might've just been Miz and the useless Daniel Puder left at this point) appealed to the fans directly to get votes. Miz "dropped character" and a cut a "real", heartfelt, emotional promo about how much wrestling has meant to him. I can't remember what Puder did? Probably stuck his thumb in his ass and stood around looking like the goofy fuck he was. How a charisma-less tool like Puder ever won Tough Enough is beyond me, but the winners are almost never the best ones in the competition anyway (Ryback, then known as "Silverback" Ryan Reeves, was a contestant that year too).

 

Fast-forward to when he cashed in Money in the Bank at Survivor Series. The fans legit went crazy and loved it. It was a major moment. The face momentum was building IMO.

 

Of course, he had to remain a heel at least through WrestleMania.

 

Redman mentioned the Nas redemption video package, which also made a good case for him to eventually turn face.

 

After WM, I was convinced that Alex Riley would be the one to turn heel, and that's exactly what should have happened. Was anyone more unlikeable than the pretty boy, prom king, jock-ass, jock-sniffing turd that Riley's character was then? There's a reason Riley has gone nowhere since then, because he was never a natural or likeable face IMO.

 

At that point, Miz could've been a huge fan favorite. He was still a main eventer with massive momentum.

 

Instead, years passed, Miz was marginalized, etc. By the time they tried a face turn, the Miz character had cooled off considerably. Even worse, it was a poorly written, half-baked turn, done with no rhyme or reason. That kind of sloppy bullshit writing never works. Look at Del Rio for another example of a face turn handled the exact same way, with the exact same result - it was a colossal flop. Both turns were ret-conned within months, so what does that tell you? Also, shoehorning Flair into Miz's act was a waste of time and seemed so out of place that it hurt Miz instead of helping him.

 

Timing is everything.



#29 DMJ

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 06:20 PM



This is that killer Miz promo that Parties mentioned. It is probably one of my favorite promos of any WWE guy in the past 5 years.

#30 NotJayTabb

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:50 AM

Been two years since this thread was last posted in, and a whole lot has changed. Primarily in relation to the Miz, who really was one of the highlights of the WWE in the past 12 months. Miz pretty much single-handedly made the IC title scene interesting in the past year, despite being paired with deadmeat Dolph Ziggler and unmotivated Dean Ambrose. Charlotte too has excelled in the past two years. At the time, I voted Miz, because Charlotte still didn't convince me that she was a great wrestler, but her catalogue of matches in the past two years is actually pretty good. Still, however, I'd again vote Miz, but on his own strengths this time rather than my lack of faith in Charlotte. Wondering if everyone felt the same as they did two years ago, or if Miz's last year has won people over?



#31 C.S.

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 12:56 PM

I picked Miz then and would pick him now.

 

My rant about "women are not draws" has obviously not aged well, but the fact is, they weren't draws when I posted that. They were never put into a position to draw back then. They have been now.

 

As great as Charlotte has been, Miz is on another level entirely. He's on fire.



#32 Grimmas

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:48 PM

Charlotte had some of the best matches last year and in WWE history with Sasha. I love The Miz, but the matches never met that level.

 

By great match theory, Charlotte wins.



#33 Jmare007

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:39 PM

Charlotte had some of the best matches last year and in WWE history with Sasha. I love The Miz, but the matches never met that level.

 

By great match theory, Charlotte wins.

 

Didn't you hate great match theory?



#34 NintendoLogic

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:02 PM

For my money, Miz vs. Dolph at Backlash blows any of the Charlotte/Sasha matches out of the water.

 

Overall, I'd say that Charlotte in NXT was probably better than Miz at any point in his career, but current Miz is better than Charlotte on the main roster.



#35 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:08 PM

Charlotte in NXT?

She was green as a tree in NXT, she has improved a million miles on the main roster.

#36 Microstatistics

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:18 AM

Charlotte, no contest. One of the best workers in the company today. Honestly I feel the Miz is and has always been pretty awful. The only time he looked remotely good was the Lawler feud but babyface Lawler makes everyone look good.



#37 El-P

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:10 AM

The Miz has carried the IC belt lately. He's been a good chicken shit champ with a hot valet. Very enjoyable worker.

 

Charlotte has had some of the best WWE matches of the past few years and looked like a main event player.

 

Easy choice.



#38 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:57 PM

Charlotte, but not by any sort of landslide right now.

 

I think on the whole they draw about even to me, but Charlotte is trending upward and we more or less know what the Miz is.

 

The Miz is a more complete and compelling character right now. He tipped with the Cena feud a bit (unfortunate feud that turned the admiration people had for him into pockets of cheers), and he hasn't quite been the same since. That said, I have more confidence that you can link him up with just about anyone and he can help carry a segment. He is still really limited in the ring to me. He can have standout performances here and there and he certainly isn't as much of a liability as he once was, but he isn't the guy who is going to churn out memorable matches.

 

Charlotte, on the other hand, isn't quite there as far as a character, but she has surpassed Miz in the ring, at least as far as I am concerned. The main thing though is that we more or less know what the Miz is by this point. Charlotte is still improving in every aspect and she has improved leaps and bounds in the past couple years. I wasn't even really a fan until late in the Sasha feud, where I thought she hit a different stride, not only really coming into her character, but really feeling more in control in the ring. That has really allowed her to excel in terms of making herself seem important, despite not having that fully realized character or the mic skills the miz has yet. That really speaks to her intangibles, her presence, the way she carries herself and does a lot of the little things.



#39 Grimmas

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:35 PM

 

Charlotte had some of the best matches last year and in WWE history with Sasha. I love The Miz, but the matches never met that level.

 

By great match theory, Charlotte wins.

 

Didn't you hate great match theory?

 

yes



#40 NintendoLogic

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:26 AM

Charlotte in NXT?

She was green as a tree in NXT, she has improved a million miles on the main roster.

 

I think all the women were better in NXT, even if they were less experienced. There was more emphasis on storytelling and less on sloppy athletic spots.






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