Austin Idol

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Wade Garrett]

Austin Idol seems like a guy who had everything it takes to really excel even after his accident. I know he didn't like to travel much and stayed in his comfort zone and that's fine. But even while still in his physical prime he could be hit and miss. He's like Roger Dorn in Major League or something. Unfortunately he didn't have a Jake Taylor to straighten his ass out and make him aware of the ability he had/still had. He seemed like he was always waiting for something better (not wrestling) to come along.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

He'd make my list of Top-100 faves for sure.

[elliott]

My GOD Austin Idol fucking rules. That is all...for now. 

[elliott]

Wanted to do the various questions for Austin Idol because he fucking rules. Like what the hell. He should be on everyone's radar as a candidate. The only drawback is the footage but goddamn what a great wrestler. Here is my deep dive in the Microscope:
https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/54477-the-universal-heartthrob-austin-idol/

 

1.        What kind of candidate is this wrestler (Peak vs Longevity,Peak+ Longevity, Big Match Wrestler, Week to Week Performer etc) and what range would you consider ranking them?

We can’t really call Idol a longevity candidate because we really only have 1979-1990 of his career. We can look at the little bit of GCW TV footage we have and get a general idea of him as a week to week TV performer and he looks really good especially as a heel. He injects a ton of character into those TV matches and always makes his opponents look great. He has a wide variety of good looking offense & schtick that he can use so there’s a lot of variety in his TV matches. He’s not just doing the same thing over and over. He is incredible in big matches. Give him a feud and give us the footage and we’ll see that he delivers. His best feud (vs Lawler in 87) is possibly the best men’s wrestling feud of the 80s. Idol is a great brawler but is more versatile than you’d expect. He’s really great stooging heel but he can also get across viciousness, he can be a firey beloved babyface, he can do comedy, he can get over being a powerhouse, he can get over being an overwhelmed powerhouse, he’s better than you’d think in a clean match but he’ really excels in over the top spectacles. Great singles match worker and great tag worker. He understands how to play all roles in a tag match. When he’s on the apron he’s always doing something to stay engaged with the match.. I’m shocked at how impressive he was. I could definitely see him in my top 50 when it comes time to vote. He’s just my kind of wrestler.  

 

2.       What is your elevator pitch for this wrestler to be a Top 100 Wrestler? (Sum up their case in a short paragraph).

Southern fried Hulk Hogan with more versatility. Great brawler with incredible charisma who could do more than you’d expect. Could play heel or face. Extremely giving worker as he’d bump and stooge his way through a match while still maintain a tough & vicious side. Best matches are some of the best of all time.

 

3.        Were they ever the best wrestler in the world? Were they ever the best wrestler in their country? Were they ever the best wrestler in their promotion? Who were some of their competitors for the best wrestler in the world, country, and promotion?

The footage availability makes this really tricky. He looks amazing in the footage we have from 81-87 but we don’t have nearly enough of a complete picture in any year to properly rank him. Idol is one of those wrestlers where you just have to look at the totality of his case. There are so many clips you have to wade through and not enough complete matches. Based one what we have from 1984 he looks amazing and like one of the best wrestlers on the planet. But its just not enough footage isolated in that one year to really fairly rate him. The most fruitful stretch we have is probably 1/87-6/87 and Idol looks like one of the best men’s wrestler on the planet. One of the defining heel runs of all time. If we had more complete matches of his run from 79-87, I think we could find he spent time as the best wrestler in his company or even country. He’s really that good.

 

4.       How many years were they a top worker (top worker being a candidate for top 10 wrestler in the world)? Who were some of the other top workers of this era?

Again its hard to say based on the footage. It looks like Idol could have been a contender any year from 1979-1987 but we don’t really have the footage to truly say for any individual year. I would say for that cumulative stretch of time 1979-1987, Idol would be a candidate for the top 10 men’s wrestler in the world. I wouldn’t put him #1 and almost certainly not in the top 5. In the end he might end up 15th or 16th or 20th, but I would have to think about him for the top 10. Folks like Terry Funk, Stan Hansen, Tatsuji Fujinami, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Buddy Rose, Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler, Nick Bockwinklel, Michael Hayes, would be his main competition for a place as a top 10 mens wrestler from 1979-1987.

 

5.       Were they a great worker before their prime? Were they a great worker after their prime? How great were they (were they a best in the world, country, promotion candidate while before their prime/after their prime)

Based on the footage we have, its impossible to say whether or not Idol was a great worker before his prime. If we say Idol’s prime is 79-87, the only real good look at Idol we have post prime is 1990 and he looks excellent in the few matches we have.

 

6.       Did they have the opportunities to produce a large body of excellent matches?

Yes. Idol was always a pushed & featured performer. The only drawback is footage availability.

IF YES
6a Do they have a large body of excellent matches?

Idol has a fair amount of excellent matches considering how limited the footage is. When we are fortunate enough to have complete matches, they tend to show Idol delivering in excellent matches, oftentimes as the standout performer.

6b Do they have a large body of excellent matches against a variety of opponents?

A fair amount given the limited footage. We can point to excellent singles matches with Jack Brisco, Tommy Rich, Stan Hansen, Jerry Lawler, Randy Savage & Paul Orndorff. When we include tags you can add Bill Dundee, Jesse Ventura, The Moondogs, Man Mountain Link, The Road Warriors, Michael Hayes, Terry Gordy, The Snowman, Soul Train Jones, Bam Bam Bigelow,

6c Do they have a large body of excellent matches in a variety of settings? (for example singles, tags, gimmicks, no gimmicks, brawls, technical, short matches, long matches etc)

Idol has an excellent technical match with Jack Brisco, excellent brawls with Stan Hansen, excellent emotional storytelling matches with Jerry Lawler, matches tags matches and crazy gimmick matches. Idol excels in a variety of different settings even with extremely limited footage.

6d How much of those excellent matches were a direct result of their performance?
 

Oh goodness yes. In fact, Idol was the more impressive performer in practically every match he’s in and that includes when he’s in there with other world class performers.

 

7.        Do they work in a way that is consistent with the way they're booked & presented?

Yes. You can always tell within seconds whether or not Idol is working as a heel or face. He works differently with jobbers than he does top stars. He knows how to get across major high stakes moments, when to be vicious and when its ok to clown around.

 

9.        What are their standout traits? (For example, selling, psychology, offense, character work etc)

All of the above? He’s great at stumbling around selling perfected by people like Sangre Chicana & Invader I. Idol is an amazing stooging stumbling seller. He has good offense. Fantastic punch, nice body slam, backbreaker a 2nd rope elbow drop, a jumping knee a great running knee, he whips out a fucking tombstone once. His character work & psychology are strong points. His matches always tell a story. He’s incredibly charismatic and has a natural dramatic flair. He’s just a natural performer.

 

10.   Did they make the people and workers around them better?

Definitely. Idol is an amazing stooge and is more than willing to bump and give hope spots to jobbers in short TV matches. Idol was always willing to stooge and make himself look foolish or get his comeuppance to the benefit of the match and his opponent. Idol’s best feud, was also the best thing Tommy Rich, Bam Bam Bigelow & Jerry freaking Lawler ever did.

 

11.   Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler was better or worse than they appeared?

 

Apparently Idol has a bad reputation among his peers as someone who was a great talker but not good in the ring. The footage tells a completely different story to me. But if you’re someone who values what other wrestlers thought of a wrestler, Idol might not seem as good. But he’s pretty clearly the star of almost every match he’s in. I can’t imagine watching the footage and coming to a different conclusion. For me the only drawback to his candidacy is lack of footage compared to some of his contemporaries.

 

12.   If you had to pick 5-10 matches (Or more) to sell someone on this wrestler what would they be? (Not necessarily the best matches but ones that are best representative of the wrestlers’ GWE case).

Spoiler

 

Austin Idol vs Jack Brisco (SECW – 7/7/79)

Austin Idol vs Tommy Rich (GCW – 11/4/81)

Austin Idol vs Stan Hansen (Bunkhouse Match – CWA – 10/10/83)

Austin Idol vs Randy Savage (CWA – 5/7/84)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (Badstreet Match – CWA – 8/12/85)

Austin Idol & Tommy Rich vs Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow (Double Jeopardy – CWA – 3/16/87)

Austin Idol & Tommy Rich vs Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death Match  - CWA – 3/23/87)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (Hair vs Hair Steel Cage Match – CWA – 4/27/87)

Austin Idol vs Paul Orndorff (TWA – 3/31/90)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (TWA – 9/9/90)

 

 

 

13.   Feel free to recommend more matches here if you like!

Spoiler

 

Austin Idol & Harley Race vs Mil Mascaras & Dos Caras (AJPW – 9/5/80)

Austin Idol vs Mil Mascaras (AJPW – 9/9/80)

Austin Idol & Dutch Mantell vs Tommy Rich & Bill Dundee (CWA – 3/12/81)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Bruiser Brothers (CWA – 7/11/83)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Stan Hansen & Jesse Ventura (CWA – 9/25/83)

Austin Idol vs Stan Hansen (Bull Rope Match – CWA – 10/3/83)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantell vs The Moondogs & Man Mountain Link (Falls Count Anywhere - CWA – 11/7/83)

Austin Idol vs Terry Taylor (CWA – 1984)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (No DQ – CWA – 1984)

Austin Idol vs Randy Savage (CWA – 5/14/84)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs The Road Warriors (CWA – 6/25/84)

Austin Idol vs Jimmy Golden (SECW – 6/15/85)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (CWA – 8/5/85)

Austin Idol & Tommy Rich vs The Snowman & Soul Train Jones (CWA – 2/9/87)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (Chain Match – CWA – 4/20/87)

Austin Idol & Tommy Rich vs Billy Travis & Mark Starr (CWA – 6/8/87)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (USWA Title Finals – USWA – 10/8/90)

 

 

14.   Any final thoughts you’d like to share?

I was pretty shocked at how great Austin Idol was. For what I really appreciate in wrestling: brawling, character work, psychology, and larger than life charisma, Idol is really the total package. He’s always working the crowd during his matches and just doing something to push the match forward. I really can’t tell you how shocked I was at the Idol footage. He’s so much fun.

 

Jamre - What's the candidate's biggest weakness? Was he/she able to overcome it (or work around it) and how?"

He was in a plane crash in 1975 that nearly ended his career and he still managed to become one of the most compelling and entertaining people of his generation because of his charisma and his understanding of psychology. I can only imagine how good he would’ve been without a life changing incident like that. Apparently it “tore the bottom of his feet down to the bone.” Which is disturbing imagery.

 

Loss –

Was he ever the best wrestler in the world? Was he ever one of the top five or top ten? How deep was the talent pool when he peaked as a worker?

Was he ever the best wrestler in his country? How long did that last? How deep was the talent pool in his country when he peaked as a worker?

Was he ever the best wrestler in the promotion? How long did that last? How deep was the talent pool in his promotion when he peaked as a worker?

When was his peak as a wrestler? How long did it last and what did he accomplish within this time frame?

Was he good before he reached his peak?

Was he good after his peak ended?

How does he compare to his peers in his era?

Answered above.  

 

How does he compare to others who have taken on a similar role in different eras?

I compared him to a southern fried Billy Graham and NWO Hulk Hogan. I did so because Idol is a muscley powerhouse with super charisma who stooges and puts over babyfaces. Idol is MUCH better than either of them at this role and I’m not sure I’ve seen a better version of a powerhouse stooge. As a face he’s again similar to a Hulk Hogan where he’s an uber charismatic powerhouse. I’m higher on Hogan than most but again Idol is a better performer in my mind. The southern style schtick heavy wrestling Idol perfected is pretty much as good as men’s pro wrestling gets for me and Idol is a true standout.  

Edit. I wrote this whole thing up and just remember Ken Patera as a powerhouse heel stooge would maybe be a good comparison but (and I really like Patera) I didn’t think of Patera because Idol is so much more charismatic. Austin Idol is like the southern Memphis version of Ken Patera with redneck Superstar Graham charisma. Boom. There you go. Only Idol is better than these other guys.

 

 

Was he an effective babyface and an effective heel?

 Oh absolutely. He has great matches as a babyface and as a heel and he noticeably switches his style up. When he’s a babyface he’s more of a charismatic ass kicker who would mix in dominant comedy spots daring his cowardly heel opponents to try him. As a heel he can be a vicious dangerous asshole and he’s an excellent stooging stalling heel.

 

Was he frequently tested as a worker? Could he make seemingly no-win situations work?

He repeatedly crushed Lawler’s balls in Memphis and then in the blow off, beat Lawler again and shaved his head in the middle of the ring in the greatest US men’s wrestling match ever and didn’t get murdered. That’s as no win as it ever got. But really, I’m not sure we have the footage to accurately say. In what exists in full he tends to be a pushed figure with quality opposition. Although I will say on paper Austin Idol vs Mil Mascaras sounds like a disaster waiting to happen and it turned out pretty fun!

 

Could he carry lesser wrestlers?

Oh yes. He had a good understanding of psychology and was such a compelling performer that he could carry a match on schtick, stooging, punching etc and have a good match with anyone. His jobber matches are enjoyable because he’s a giving worker and willing stooge so he gives no name jobbers more than you’d expect which makes for more interesting matches.  

 

Could he have good and effective short matches? Could he have good and effective long matches?

Yes and yes. He’s really fun in short jobber matches. He has great charisma, works the crowd, stooges and has a nice varied power offense that allows him to have enjoyable shorter matches. He’s good as a babyface or heel in this role. He’s also awesome in like short out of control all out brawls. His longest match is his greatest match.

 

What are his best physical skills? Did he use those skills well?

I don’t really think of Idol as a physical skill kind of wrestler. Like he’s not an amazing athlete who will wow you with moves. He’s all psychology and brains. I guess I would say his body language is his best physical skill because he was able to utilize his body language to tell stories and inject storytelling into is matches. He had a great body for the era, he’s not a Road Warrior but he could pull off a powerhouse wrestler character. This made his great stooging and selling more effective when he was a heel but when he was a babyface it enabled him to project a more badass aura.

 

How would you describe his psychology? Was it effective? Does it hold up to scrutiny?

Southern Stooging Powerhouse. It was extremely effective and I think it holds up to scrutiny. He looked awesome in the footage & psychology & storytelling really standout as strongpoints.  

 

How was his selling?

Top notch. He was amazing at stooging stumbling around selling. He does the sort of stumbling around selling similar to Sangre Chicana or Invader 1. Only Idol turns the stooging aspect up of the stumbling up a notch. This particular style of selling really appeals to me and is one of the reasons I’m drawn to Idol as a performer.  

 

How was he at structuring matches? Did they typically have a strong beginning, middle and end?

 Fantastic. Idol’s matches always told a story and you could always follow the story from the start. As soon as the video begins you know if Idol is a heel or face and the level of his opponent.

 

Did he take chances as a worker? Did he recover well when something unexpected happened?

I can’t really remember any clear examples of this. Idol was pretty low tech in general and more of a Memphis style wrestler who did a lot of schtick and punching.

 

Was he influential? Did anyone copy his style, and if so, was that copying a good or bad thing for wrestling?

I don’t think anyone would cite Idol as an influence.

 

How was he in tag matches and/or gimmick matches?

Idol was awesome in tag matches. He could play any role in the ring  and was really good especially working the apron keeping the crowd into the match.  His best gimmick matches are some of the best matches of all time.

 

Did he have a high number of good matches?

Yes and no. Compared to people with tons and tons of footage, no. But based on the footage we have, Idol has a really high number of good matches. He almost always delivers when he has a chance to have a good match.

 

Was he typically the driving force in his best matches?

He was the star of practically every match he was in that we have on tape. I know that sounds like hyperbole but I feel its true. Idol is such a charismatic performer he can’t help but be the star of his matches. I hate to keep comparing him to Hogan because Hogan is literally the biggest star ever, but Idol really has that standout charisma. His opponent almost doesn’t even matter.

 

Are there any unique factors that you think play into his career that may not apply to everyone else?

He suffered a career altering injury before we ever got to see him work. So he was really never 100% physically at any point.

[elliott]

This Saturday, March 5th from 3pm-5pm we're doing an Austin Idol Watch Party. 

https://cytu.be/r/GWE_WP

No need go signup to use the service and you can find all the other Watch Parties we've done as well. So there's a real treasure trove of awesome stuff! 

[NotJayTabb]

I just read that long post on his candidacy and thought "Austin Idol sounds great, I need to check him out", and then you go and drop the Watch Party news. Absolutely perfect

[elliott]

Don't forget, Austin Idol Watch Party tomorrow at 3pm EST. Some really cool matches. Hot crowds, oodles of charisma, great stooging and schtick and a fucking killer punch. 

[NotJayTabb]

After thoroughly enjoying the watch party on Saturday, I'm shocked at how there was almost no discussion of him first time around. Was there just a sudden footage burst in the last few years? He's so instantly interesting to watch, a big guy with a great look who makes everything feel important, and sells superbly. He's like a Superstar Billy Graham who can work. What really impressed me is how his selling felt like big stoogy selling as a heel, but with very little change felt like great sympathetic selling as a face. Not saying he's a lock for my list, I'll need to see more than just 2 hours to make the cut, but if the rest of his stuff is on par with the WP, then he'll be in.

[elliott]

It absolutely boggles the mind that there isn't more love/respect for Idol. Much of this stuff existed on tape and eve made it on the Memphis set. No disrespect to Dutch, but its wild that folks left that set more excited about Dutch Mantell than Idol. I'd honestly put Idol above Dutch, Rich, and even the great Bill Dundee at this point. A psychologically sound, stooging, bumping, uber charismatic character is really just all I could hope for out of a wrestler at this point in my life. 

I actually sort of left the best of the best off of the WP list becuase I know how our friend Grimmas feels about watching Jerry Lawler. More stuff to check out that didn't make the Watch Party:
 

Austin Idol & Harley Race vs Mil Mascaras & Dos Caras (AJPW – 9/5/80)

Austin Idol vs Mil Mascaras (AJPW – 9/9/80)
Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Bruiser Brothers (CWA – 7/11/83)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler & Jimmy Valiant vs The Assassins & Ken Patera (CWA – 8/22/83)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Stan Hansen & Jesse Ventura (CWA – 9/25/83)

Austin Idol vs Stan Hansen (Bunkhouse Match – CWA – 10/10/83)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantell vs The Moondogs & Man Mountain Link (Falls Count Anywhere - CWA – 11/7/83)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (No DQ – CWA – 1984)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs The Road Warriors (CWA – 6/25/84)

Austin Idol vs Jos LeDuc (CWA – 4/23/85)

Austin Idol vs Jimmy Golden (SECW – 6/15/85)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (CWA – 8/5/85)

Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler vs Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (Badstreet Match – CWA – 8/12/85)

 

Austin Idol & Tommy Rich vs Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death Match  - CWA – 3/23/87)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (Chain Match – CWA – 4/20/87)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (Hair vs Hair Steel Cage Match – CWA – 4/27/87)

Austin Idol vs Paul Orndorff (TWA – 3/31/90)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (TWA – 9/9/90)

Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler (USWA Title Finals – USWA – 10/8/90)