Jump to content


Photo

El Mesias/Ricky Banderas//Mil Muertes


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 Grimmas

Grimmas

    a Wrestling Feminist

  • Members
  • 7727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Posted 28 August 2015 - 04:18 AM

Discuss here.



#2 Grimmas

Grimmas

    a Wrestling Feminist

  • Members
  • 7727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Posted 28 August 2015 - 06:11 AM

He has that great series with LA Park. I love him in Lucha Underground, especially the Ultima Lucha match. If he would to make his way onto the list, he needs some more.

 

How is his Puerto Rico run and the rest of his lucha run?



#3 Quentin Skinner

Quentin Skinner
  • Members
  • 184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore

Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:57 AM

Never really cared much for Banderas outside of his LU run where I think everything just came together perfectly in the Muertes role. His work in other promotions hasn't left a big impression on me. Haven't seen too much of his Puerto Rico stuff so I'm kinda interested in that.



#4 W2BTD

W2BTD
  • Members
  • 852 posts

Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:00 AM

This guy flat out stinks outside of one LA Park match and the Muertes gimmick, which isn't even close to enough to get on my radar for something like this. Maybe i'm watching the wrong matches, but he comes off very lazy most of the time.



#5 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5077 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:34 AM

This guy flat out stinks outside of one LA Park match and the Muertes gimmick, which isn't even close to enough to get on my radar for something like this. Maybe i'm watching the wrong matches, but he comes off very lazy most of the time.

 

All I've seen is the Park stuff and Muertes.  Probably for good reason.  Is there another match that even approaches this stuff?



#6 Tim Evans

Tim Evans
  • Members
  • 3964 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:09 PM

I remember liking his matches with guys like Slash Venom, Ray Gonzalez and even Vampiro in IWA PR. The Vampiro matches are closer to the LA Park matches with blood and weapons. I haven't seen those matches in years so they might not hold up. Banderas won't be on my list but he's not as awful as he has been in AAA most of the time.



#7 W2BTD

W2BTD
  • Members
  • 852 posts

Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:57 PM

 

This guy flat out stinks outside of one LA Park match and the Muertes gimmick, which isn't even close to enough to get on my radar for something like this. Maybe i'm watching the wrong matches, but he comes off very lazy most of the time.

 

All I've seen is the Park stuff and Muertes.  Probably for good reason.  Is there another match that even approaches this stuff?

 

 

I've only seen AAA stuff. I guess try some of that stuff from PR that Tim Evans just rec'd.



#8 W2BTD

W2BTD
  • Members
  • 852 posts

Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:58 PM

He has a largely forgotten TNA run that wasn't good, too.



#9 fxnj

fxnj
  • Members
  • 471 posts

Posted 29 August 2015 - 09:58 AM

I really dug his stuff with Wagner in 2009, though I haven't seen it since it happened.

#10 concrete1992

concrete1992

    Sammy D

  • Members
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2015 - 10:11 AM

Will vote for him based on his WSX work. Same for Jack Evans. 



#11 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 September 2015 - 12:46 AM

I nominated him, but he's more a guy worth exploring, than a guy I could see myself voting for at the moment.  I do think it is very fair to say that the guy has incredibly high highs - there aren't too many people who have matches like the Park and Fenix bouts on their resume who aren't considered at the very least "good" workers.  Still I would not have nominated him if not for the relatively large amount of his IWA Puerto Rico run that is now available via YouTube.  He had a good rep working there as a guy who got the most out of turds, always worked hard, and delivered on big angles/feuds.  I can't say for certain whether or not that is true, but the rep is there from people I respect.  I agree that when he is bad, he is bad, but I have actually enjoyed a lot of his run in AAA even though it's nothing to build a resume for something like this on.  I'm going to mine through some of that IWA stuff if I can, but I strongly believe in including territory/regional stars with reps from those who watched the footage and/or lived through their respective runs, so he felt like someone who needed a thread



#12 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 November 2015 - 01:39 AM

Watched a ton of IWA this week and well....turns out this guy was good as fuck down there to the point where if I was a week-to-week viewer of t.v. during his run I think I'd be hard pressed not to include him.  

 

There are absolutely criticisms to be made and I will get them out of the way now.  It's possible that what is uploaded to YouTube is merely a "greatest hits" and doesn't reflect what he did as a whole in PR during his peak.  The style he worked is a style some might find dated, as it was sort of a hybrid of late era ECW and 80's WWC.  While I have seen him in good non-gimmicked matches, I've not seen him in a very good one, let alone great one.  

 

Having said all of that this guy had a BIG TIME aura in PR and projected it huge in his matches.  He was super athletic and spry for a guy his size, but didn't shoehorn in "athlete" spots at the expense of the match.  He was very strong as both a face and a heel in brawls, and did a great job mixing in big moments throughout while also putting together matches that had a since of escalation which is one of main things I look for in matches of that sort.  If you are someone who puts a ton of stock in peak matches and peak performances the matches v. Glamour Boy Shane, Slash Venom, and Vampiro really are very impressive, and add to the argument that he's a legitimately great wrestler at least when stipulations are involved.  I was also impressed with him against people like Apollo and others.  

 

In IWA he was basically the best and most logical version of Mike Awesome you can imagine.  If you are into guys who stand out and feel ahead of his time he's someone you should watch. 



#13 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:21 AM

Yeah I'm posting in this thread again, and I'm really trying to avoid recency bias, but this guy is close to playing his way into my bottom five.  Went back and watched some of the Lucha Underground stuff and he is really magnificent in the Mil Muertes role.  If you can make me buy into an intergender match as a monster you are doing something great, and Puma and Fenix matches from season one hold up tremendously on rewatch. I realize there are some lazy and bleak years in here, but a guy like Roddy Piper probably has a similar resume (very high highs, great character work, low lows) and I can't imagine dismissing him out of hand.  



#14 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5077 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:02 PM

What are his best PR matches?



#15 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:33 PM

I honestly think it's all at least decent, but I think the Venom brawl(s), Sewell ladder match, and amazingly enough the Vamp match might be my favs. The thing with Sewell v Starr Corp is cool too.

#16 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5077 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 02:06 PM

So Banderas vs. Slash Venom from October 2003 was an insane, incredibly fun brawl with a spot at the finish that legit qualified as homicide.  *THAT* was a money brawl. 

 

Also checked out Banderas & Vampiro vs. Venom & Apolo in a cage from January 2004.  This was fine but suffered a bit with the dubbed commentary replacing all noise from the building.  A few solid spots and blood, but nothing outstanding.

 

Shane ladder match is on deck, but what's next after that?  I know its the Mesias/Banderas thread, but that first Banderas/Venom match was sick.  Open to any and all PR that are in the same universe.



#17 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 03:28 PM

I swear this isn't a troll, by are you averse to watching Invader matches?

#18 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5077 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 03:33 PM

No.  Believe I checked out a couple a while back and didn't love them, but really don't remember at all.  Where do I start assuming the Banderas run is over?



#19 Dylan Waco

Dylan Waco
  • Moderators
  • 10166 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 03:44 PM

Well I would honestly give all that Banderas stuff a look if you are into him because I feel he had a really unique and transcendent quality on the island. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Sewell match.

If you are into the type of brawl found in Banderas v Venom, I really think Invaders matches with Perez and Embry are the most directly comparable. Have you arched the Colon v Ayala feud?

#20 WingedEagle

WingedEagle
  • Members
  • 5077 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2016 - 05:55 PM

Definitely need to find more Banderas.  Why is there never a comprehensive playlist out there for times like these? :)

 

Ladder Match: Really enjoyed the early portions with the brawling in & outside the ring, as well as how they incorporated the ladder and did so judiciously.  Back half of the match it felt like they fell under the spell of the ladder needing it for every spot and having someone (typically Shane) always regenerate their life bar in time for a save.  Fun watch but nothing all that standout.

 

Remember reading about Colon/Ayala in Apter mags back in the day but haven't watched any.  Where do I start if that's a fun place to pick thing sup?






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users