Jump to content


Photo

UFC is a Solid Heel Territory Right Now


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#21 CapitalTTruth

CapitalTTruth
  • Members
  • 787 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Markout Mountain

Posted 16 November 2015 - 10:45 PM

Yeah... MMA, just like wrestling, just like the rest of the world has its share of bigots and assholes.



#22 pantherwagner

pantherwagner
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 1192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:48 PM

Ronda is a lot like John Cena in the way that some of the most hardcore of fans who visit MMA websites every day resent her a lot. In her case it's partly due to all the stupid shit she says.

 

She has been vocally criticising Mayweather for being a woman beater and raising her voice at how people give him a pass because he's famous, but then she's dating an alleged domestic abuser. UFC reinstated him in the organisation after a 3rd party investigation had "inconclusive evidence". Maybe the dude is completely innocent and he has been framed by a crazy ex (not the first time this ever happens) but UFC's track record in handling domestic abusers isn't the best.

 

Both her and Dana White have made some dubious comments about Cyborg and her sexuality.

 

She also claimed that she could beat the entire 135 pound men's division. Really. I guess TJ Dillashaw, Dominick Cruz and Renan Barao are included in that list. At least that retarded debate is now dead.

 

She even once said that, given the right circumstances, she could even beat Cain Velasquez. I wonder if "the right circumstances" involve her having an AK-47.

 

It doesn't help how Ronda, McGregor, Jones and others are perceived to have special treatment from Dana White. Many MMA fans are ashamed former wrestling fans who hate their precious sport being anything like fake shit wrestling.

 

I like Ronda and I hope that she stops surrounding herself with losers and comes back stronger than ever, but she's got a somewhat unlikable personality and tends to stick her foot in her own mouth.



#23 jdw

jdw
  • Members
  • 8040 posts

Posted 18 November 2015 - 02:16 PM

The UFC wasn’t always a heel promotion, but it certainly is now.  Their central stars are Conor McGregor, Jon Jones, and Ronda Rousey. McGregor is probably not nearly the ass hole he plays on TV, but dropping lines about how many people died to make his watch and taking the belt from his champion opponent… that is top level heel stuff. Jon Jones does drugs, more or less gets caught cheating on his wife regularly, and drives his car into stuff all the time, never seeming to be too remorseful.  He is so generally unlikable it drives me nuts. Ronda also rubs people the wrong way. She seems likeable sometimes, but her competitiveness turns her into raging bitch. The chip on her shoulder is well past endearing or charming. Casual and hardcore fans seem to be mixed on her since she is so fun to watch, but the general joy over her getting handled last night make it clear she is really a heel.

 

Vince wishes he had heels that got the kinda heat these three do.

 

The heels are the center of attention in the UFC. We have come along way since the Face-centric days of Forrest, Chuck, GSP, Silva, Randy and so on. 

 

Tito was a clear heel, pretty much the best of his era.

 

Hughes was a dick, so even as they pushed him as a great champ, he kind of was a heel. Goofy guys like Trigg weren't strong good enough faces to let Hughes' heeldom dominate the build up, but he was a Matt's dick nature came through. It really was against GSP and Serra where he got to go heel. But if you see his stuff prior to that, he's an old school arrogant cocky heel who was so good (for the era) that he didn't need to go all bullshit Sonnenville to talk himself into getting title matches.

 

I always thought the fans took Silva to be a heel, especially in matches where he just dogged it and showed up the opponents (often when he was bored). Fans really wanted to see him get beat at various times. Of course Chael Sonnen was a bigger heel, but even in that first match there were plenty of people as it went on hoping Chael would pull the upset. Silva pulling it out of his ass is probably one of the few true babyface moments he had.

 

BJ was kind of a dick, and a lazy dick to boot. But didn't really know how to play heel strongly.

 

The Crazy Diaz Brothers have been heels forever. Koscheck was a heel, and embraced it. Dan Hardy was a dick heel.

 

Brock was pretty clearly working as a heel, but (i) fans loved his dominating, and (ii) he didn't really have a good GSP-style face to go against, so... Brock kind of was a heel the fans turned face.

 

They've long had heels. Most of the heels didn't have true title ability, or ran into dynastic champs like GSP who they couldn't beat. In turn, most of the heels who were who had true title ability were guys that the promotion wanted to push hard as Iconic Historic Champs (Hughes, Silva, BJ) or couldn't work effectively doing heel promos (BJ) that their heeldom was muted by the promotion of their own promotional skills.

 

I'm surprised I got this far before mentioning Tank Abbott. Who does capture the 90s and 00s heels pretty well: didn't have the ability to back up his heel bullshit at a main event level.



#24 jdw

jdw
  • Members
  • 8040 posts

Posted 18 November 2015 - 02:42 PM

We're they're really weak right now is in faces. The faces are all pretty much boring.

 

Cain. Werdum... I can't tell if he's a face or a hell, he's just boring.

 

Jones was a terrific face who turned into a terrific heel before getting derailed by the coke, but as likable as Cormier is out of the ring, he really isn't a great face opposite a potential monster heel in Jones.  Anthony Johnson is a real life heel, but obviously the UFC isn't going to touch that.

 

Weidman was a bland, boring underdog face, but you hold the title for two years and you stop being an underdog.

 

Hendricks was kind of a throwback "everyman" persona babyface, but going up against GSP didn't make him the face. Then he fell flat to Lawler. Robbie is a good story, but hasn't really found his face vibe. They push Rory as a face, but he hasn't had the ability to take the final step.

 

The lower divisions... other than Mighty Mouse, does any division even have the level of face that Frankie was when he was champ? Frankie couldn't carry a card (in terms of draw, rather than having good match quality), so was more akin to a good semifinal / co-main event champ... maybe like a Tag Title under a World Title as the draw. Faber is a good face, but is 0-for-Years in title matches.

 

The promotion loved having McGregor drop into their laps, and then are creaming all over themselves over him beating Mendes.



#25 CapitalTTruth

CapitalTTruth
  • Members
  • 787 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Markout Mountain

Posted 18 November 2015 - 05:17 PM

All that more or less supports the point here. It isn't that they have never had heels or never had periods of being somewhat heel centric, but that their focus right now, their strenght is heel fighters. They have had heel champions, but as you said the longer reigns, the big draws were USUALY a mixed bag, until fairly recently. They are selling their fights based on heel work and part of this is because they are low on faces. Their biggest gates are drawn by heels and when they want to make sure they draw big numbers they turn to... heels. Sure they have had heels, but I am not sure they have ever been so focussed on heels to carry the product.  Even if there was a period like this, I am just saying they are a heel organization right now and that this... like everything... is pro wrestling.



#26 joeg

joeg
  • Members
  • 504 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 January 2016 - 11:27 PM

What amazes me the most about UFC is how it only takes them 3 or 4 fights over the course of a year or two in the company to turn a guy from nothing  into a Main Event level draw. It takes boxers a dozen  fights on HBO, Showtime, and ESPN over the course of 4 or 5 years until the guy is a PPV draw. WWE takes years of developmental, years of being pushed strong in the midcard on weekly TV, then a monster main event push on weekly TV for a guy to be a real draw. For WWE its a 3 to 4 year process to see return on their investment.  But UFC, the guy does a fight on cable, then a fight on Fox, then an undercard on a PPV, then he headlines a fight on Fox, then he's ready to headline a PPV. It's a two year process if even until UFC sees a return on investment. They really are doing something right.



#27 Mad Dog

Mad Dog
  • Members
  • 4743 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 January 2016 - 01:16 PM

Match making. The best fight the best and when a guy goes out there and starts taking down name opponents people notice. With boxing. It can be a decade before before they fight anyone of any real value.



#28 Bierschwale

Bierschwale
  • Members
  • 1059 posts

Posted 31 March 2016 - 06:34 PM

Nate Diaz with the promo of the year?



#29 CapitalTTruth

CapitalTTruth
  • Members
  • 787 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Markout Mountain

Posted 09 April 2016 - 04:20 PM

Diaz's promo was white hot. 

 

I also think Rory McDonald vs Robbie Lawler was an absolute five star match.



#30 joeg

joeg
  • Members
  • 504 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:42 PM

When did Dominick Cruz turn heel?

#31 stro

stro

    legitshook.com

  • Banned
  • 975 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2016 - 09:02 PM

Just wait until Jim Rome replaces Goldie. That asshole, plus Dana, plus NSAC, plus USADA, plus the heel fighters, plus Mario Yamasaki will be unbearable. MMA needs Takada's Trumpet.



#32 Zoo Enthusiast

Zoo Enthusiast
  • Members
  • 1221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anywhere I darn well please.

Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:02 PM

Any Ronda to WWE discussion happening yet?

#33 Mad Dog

Mad Dog
  • Members
  • 4743 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 December 2016 - 05:31 PM

Speculation mostly. I think she's going to retire after getting absolutely crushed like that.



#34 Zoo Enthusiast

Zoo Enthusiast
  • Members
  • 1221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anywhere I darn well please.

Posted 31 December 2016 - 10:13 PM

Speculation mostly. I think she's going to retire after getting absolutely crushed like that.


I hope she gives it a shot eventually. She has plenty of time.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users