The Chief Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 There is absolutely no good reason to book Tom Phillips of all people to get his head rattled by those slaps. I don't think she should be slapping wrestlers but there is SOME logic in that but announcers or interviewers with no athletic backgrounds? Absolutely not. Is he made of glass and somehow I'm not aware of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 There is absolutely no good reason to book Tom Phillips of all people to get his head rattled by those slaps. I don't think she should be slapping wrestlers but there is SOME logic in that but announcers or interviewers with no athletic backgrounds? Absolutely not. Is he made of glass and somehow I'm not aware of this? You don't need to be made of glass to get hurt by someone slapping you in the head really hard several times. Especially someone who frequently posts their late night workouts on social media, so it's not like she's some weakling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Yeah, I'm sure it stings a little, late night workouts or not, but "concussion awareness" and "she almost made Roman Reigns cry" is just reaching for things to complain about. And "announcers with no athletic backgrounds?" I wasn't aware you needed to go through wrestling school to learn how to take a slap(s) from a girl without risking permanent brain damage. Unless Tom Phillips is subject to seizures or something I don't see what the issue is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 It's not about being prone to seizures or being weak, it's about how it is completely unnecessary for someone like him to get slapped around on tv. I realize being part of WWE means something different than being part of ESPN but it is not like she really desperately needs to be doing that to them to get heat or anything. What is wrong with leaving them out of it and finding a way to get heat on her elsewhere? Even Batista who is an actual former wrestler complained about her slaps. They are just totally uncalled for and there is zero chance for retribution due to our society and how we are taught not to go after women especially in this age of heightened awareness towards domestic violence. Seeing this woman slap around guys doesn't do anyone any favors at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The slaps (strong or not) are an extension of a bigger problem. The audience doesn't really care about Todd Phillips. He is a guy doing backstage work. This isn't Mean Gene getting his ass kicked, this is just some (for all purposes) random guy. Even if it WAS someone like Mean Gene, what does that do for Mean Gene? And what does it do for Stephanie? If Stephanie was a heel just getting her feet wet and attacked Mean Gene, then it would establish that she is not playing around anymore and it takes her character to another level (which unfortunately is the tired WWE trope of "Bitches Be Crazy!" ). However, as it stands right now Stephanie is the most protected heel in the company and has been in multiple segments over the years where she just cuts off people's balls (WWE champion Seth Rollins) and gets some form of comeuppance that is usually wiped from the records as soon as it happens. This of course nullifies EVERYTHING that happened before it (i.e. the outcome of the Survivor Series 2014). If, in my example, Mean Gene is going to be featured in a over-arching program then the spot makes 'sense' within that story. But if this is just Stephanie beating men up again-- then there is a problem. That segment accomplished nothing for either person. Todd Phillips (who is getting his feet wet as an on air personality who needs to establish credibility with the audience) now looks like a complete punk in order to advance absolutely no storyline or anything. My second problem with this is that even IF Todd Phillips is being used to advance the Reigns/Authority angle...why? How many wrestlers were released over the years and told it was because 'creative has nothing for you!'? At some point-in-time, people backstage decided that it was more important to get the ring crew, announcers, time keeper, and refs into the show. Why? I am not sure, as I know absolutely NO ONE who was ever clamoring to see the WWE time keeper go against SCSA in the main event of WM or see a member of the ring crew go one-on-one with The Great One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The slaps (strong or not) are an extension of a bigger problem. The audience doesn't really care about Todd Phillips. He is a guy doing backstage work. This isn't Mean Gene getting his ass kicked, this is just some (for all purposes) random guy. Even if it WAS someone like Mean Gene, what does that do for Mean Gene? And what does it do for Stephanie? If Stephanie was a heel just getting her feet wet and attacked Mean Gene, then it would establish that she is not playing around anymore and it takes her character to another level (which unfortunately is the tired WWE trope of "Bitches Be Crazy!" ). However, as it stands right now Stephanie is the most protected heel in the company and has been in multiple segments over the years where she just cuts off people's balls (WWE champion Seth Rollins) and gets some form of comeuppance that is usually wiped from the records as soon as it happens. This of course nullifies EVERYTHING that happened before it (i.e. the outcome of the Survivor Series 2014). If, in my example, Mean Gene is going to be featured in a over-arching program then the spot makes 'sense' within that story. But if this is just Stephanie beating men up again-- then there is a problem. That segment accomplished nothing for either person. Todd Phillips (who is getting his feet wet as an on air personality who needs to establish credibility with the audience) now looks like a complete punk in order to advance absolutely no storyline or anything. My second problem with this is that even IF Todd Phillips is being used to advance the Reigns/Authority angle...why? How many wrestlers were released over the years and told it was because 'creative has nothing for you!'? At some point-in-time, people backstage decided that it was more important to get the ring crew, announcers, time keeper, and refs into the show. Why? I am not sure, as I know absolutely NO ONE who was ever clamoring to see the WWE time keeper go against SCSA in the main event of WM or see a member of the ring crew go one-on-one with The Great One. Pretty much. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 While I totally agree with what you said, I also see this as part of the current problem with the WWE. Let's pretend she had attacked Mean Gene, or Sean Mooney, or Lord Alfred Hayes, or Gorilla Monsoon, or any of the classic WWE voices......we'd have actually cared, because without taking anything away from any of the wrestlers or the storylines, they were established characters that you felt a connection too, because you understood who they were, and why they were there. These days, apart from Cole, JBL, and Renee Young...every single one of them is just a bland, interchangeable, cog in the machine, that you barely notice when they have been replaced, let alone give a shit about when they are beaten up by angry rampaging Steph. That segment could have accomplished SO much more were she attacking someone that the crowd cared about, instead the whole thing is just met with crickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 But to add to that, why even go there? It is like the WWE is cultivating the emotions of a male dominated fanbase to want to see a female get her ass kicked. Why? We are in an age where people are vilified (rightly so) for being domestic abusers so why do we want to create a situation where the "right" payoff in a wrestling storyline is that the female got her ass handed to her? Sure we can hope for alternative payoffs like her being "fired" or be taken off television but that is even less realistic than booking Stone Cold to batter her back with a chair while she is in a lying prone position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Away from the danger aspect (I agree it's not smart to get jacked in what looked like the jaw first and then head multiple times) in today's environment in a throwaway bit of television by a character who cannot get any comeuppance, it's stupid. People try to say she shows ass, but she really doesn't. The Ronda thing... a bit of vanity booking. Being thrown in the mud pit by Vickie... Vickie was out the door. In fact if you look back at her whole career, from the days she couldn't work a mic (she can now, very well, but it has limited consequence) and was as plain looking as you get, and Vince was adamant in media interviews Steph was on television because she deserves it, up until now, Steph may be the biggest vanity project in wrestling history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I know what we can infer, but I'd like an actual report that clarifies if Stephanie is booked the way she is because that's how she wants it and insists that it be, if it's that the writers do it proactively out of fear to how she'd respond to being asked to show vulnerability or if she is booked the way she is because that's how Vince wants it and insists that it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I know what we can infer, but I'd like an actual report that clarifies if Stephanie is booked the way she is because that's how she wants it and insists that it be, if it's that the writers do it proactively out of fear to how she'd respond to being asked to show vulnerability or if she is booked the way she is because that's how Vince wants it and insists that it be. I feel like I've seen tidbits before where Triple H and Stephanie either wanted to scale back on their presence over the product or tone down the heel booking and basically just be guys who dropped by to check in with the show and then make impartial decisions like Tunney used to and Vince overruled them believing they needed to be a big part of the shows and that they be evil authorities since it worked so well for him in the past. Either Vince, or USA Network execs, insisted on it. Obviously because it only does to serve their characters well on a personal level to be booked like it, they aren't fighting back much about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 yeah, I'll bet Bonnie Hammer has something to do with Stephanie and Hunter being all over TV. They are pretty much the last remnants of the attitude era and she has in the past wanted them to go to older acts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 I never brought the 'USA wants them' talking point. I know Trips was asked about the format of the main shows and basically said something along the lines of 'we have to adhere to the network wants as well', but that was addresses more than just one thing (constant presence of authority figures). I am going off of memory here so please correct me if I am wrong. I just honestly can't see anyone in TV watching a 3 hour Raw and/or following the product for a number of years and saying 'We need more HHH/Stephanie' and not advocating for less. Do Steph/HHH REALLY draw in viewers or is it that the viewers are so use to HHH/Stephanie that some viewers believe the episode of Raw or Smackdown is a complete throwaway if The Authority don't even want to pop in their heads to mess up everything. I honestly believe that through sheer 'staying-the-course' HHH/Stephanie found a way to make apathetic viewers part of the HHH/Stephanie=ratings narrative simply by booking themselves into over 90% of all the on-air-product. Canon WWE is stale as shit when they are there, when they are NOT there then its just might as well not even exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 I actually think it has gone way past the point of them just asking for them to do something on the show. It looks to me like Bonnie Hammer really wants to be a booker of her own too when it comes to USA properties including Raw. Nothing stays on the channel if she doesn't like it. It is like Bonnie Hammer has only stopped herself short of buying up the whole wrestling company so she could have a better eye and handle on the product like Ted Turner all these years ago with JCP/WCW. I think the deal with WWE and USA is something that is probably slanted in USA's direction. It wasn't Vince who wanted 3 hours. It was Bonnie Hammer. It wasn't Vince who wanted to do all those "special" Raws with reunions of former stars. It was Bonnie Hammer. It probably wasn't Vince who wants the authority shit to continue really, it was Hammer. I think Vince had always thought that when he was written out of the show for the most part, it was meant to blowoff the whole heel authority direction. Look at that Anonymous GM shit with the emails. Why did they do that? So they can continue booking babyfaces to chase and overcome hurdles without throwing heat on anybody (except for Michael Cole I guess). But Hammer wants the familiar old wrinkly faces on the tv fucking with the babyfaces and viewers. Edit- because this post and the last post I made may have contradictions, I want to clarify that in the case of Vince demanding Triple H and Stephanie to be on tv isn't necessarily a situation where he wanted to do it but rather that he feels obligated to listen to what USA wants and follow their requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Bonnie Hammer, much like Kevin Dunn, Stephanie and the faceless "Creative" have at times become a scapegoat for what people don't like about WWE. The problem is Vince, but I've always sensed sort of a reluctance to really tear into him and him alone for reasons I don't entirely understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Where does this idea that Bonnie Hammer is micromanaging RAW booking come from? That seems like a real stretch/weird inference coming from the typical vague fact-free speculation that wrestling sites indulge around the executive levels of WWE/USA. There are plenty of corporate big-wigs who are inappropriately involved in the creative wings of their companies. Everything from retail to civic services to media empires in books, film, TV suffer embarrassments from C-Suite folks fulfilling their wannabe Hollywood fantasies. But Hammer by most counts is pretty sensible and a good delegator. Watching her on Charlie Rose and the like, you'd get the impression that this is not someone who's pulling rank and demanding more Stephanie, especially Stephanie knocking around their eighth best announcer. It's hard to say who is responsible for the glut of bad HHH/Steph segments, but Vince and the endless "yes" men/women surrounding him are a good guess. Meltzer himself has claimed that their segments are the highest-rated. Obv. that's a self-fulfilling prophecy in that they book themselves in good time slots, main event programs, as invincible heels, etc. But the Attitude recognition counts for a ton. Subtly tell your audience that the last 10 years of TV doesn't really matter and this is what you get. And as I've said elsewhere: the McMahons are very paranoid about having talent leave the company or make higher demands. Hunter openly views people like the Rock and Punk with contempt, and as internal failures of a sort. When you believe that the worst-case scenario is that one of your stars will leave you, it's understandable (by their convoluted logic) that you would push yourselves - the family in the family business, they who will never abandon ship - as the top of the food chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Where does this idea that Bonnie Hammer is micromanaging RAW booking come from? That seems like a real stretch/weird inference coming from the typical vague fact-free speculation that wrestling sites indulge around the executive levels of WWE/USA. Suggesting or asking about featuring certain big names is far from micromanaging booking. Don't know how credible the concept may be, but I don't believe for a minute USA is interested in the minutiae of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 If WWE was willing to sacrifice some short-term success to build some long-term success, we may get somewhere. That's harder for them to do as a publicly-traded company, and it goes against Vince's mentality anyway. But saying "Hey, let's get over the week-to-week guys as the real stars and not use Undertaker, HHH or any part-timers or past acts at Wrestlemania" would result in a less successful Wrestlemania, but in the long run, I would think it would help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 The USA Network is one of the most hands on networks that are out there. It is one of Universal's prized channels besides NBC. It is absolutely believable to me that they have an unusual interest in what is being aired. They might not have the bigwigs going over minute by minute play by play of RAW but they absolutely have people assigned to tasks of which to keep an eye on the WWE stuff that they put on the network. Because Bonnie Hammer sees RAW in the Attitude Era and the period after as big reasons why she is where she is viewed within the industry (that being a giant in television, always a good thing). It is natural she would want to maintain a continued synergy between herself as a tv exec and the success of RAW and WWE on her networks. That being said, I am not trying to take Vince off the hook here entirely. Of course he bears a great deal of responsibility for what is happening but look at it this way, this is a what, 70 year old guy we are talking about. This is a guy who's mental capacity is likely diminished to some extent in terms of his business mind. He is an old dog here. In the past he might have revelled in Stone Cold stunning everyone figuratively and flipping a bird at everyone who dare challenge him or doubt him but that really isn't what he is about nowadays. He probably still has stubbornness when it comes to presenting a vision, but he is picking his hills to die on more selectively. He doesn't have time to fight everyone who has power and wants to challenge him. It is in the same vein in which explains why he is content riding on the wave of nostalgia. That shit is built up. There's no effort in explaining to the audience why the Rock or DX or whatever are important. He probably doesn't feel like putting that effort in transitioning into entirely depending on newer commodities that requires molding. That shit has to wait for when he does drop dead and the next guy in charge is ready to put his or her stamp on the product with their new energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 USA Network is certainly the driving force behind their #1 issue right now: three hour Raws and how that puts up a huge entry barrier to attract new fans. Us hardcores are going to watch no matter what (even if we DVR it first and FF through the nonsense). No one just stumbling upon WWE for the first time is going to invest three hours a week in the A show and 2 more on Smackdown to be hooked into becoming a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I swear I remember Dave saying Hammer pushed for the DX reunions in 2006 and 2009. I can remember him saying she also wanted Rena Mero to return during that time. Ultimately the blame shold go on Vince but I think the network does have influence over the product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Weren't those DX runs huge successes when it came to selling merch? I know that point is tangential to the discussion but that seems like Vince seeing an opportunity to get more people crammed into the merch booths, rather than a network directive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Weren't those DX runs huge successes when it came to selling merch? I know that point is tangential to the discussion but that seems like Vince seeing an opportunity to get more people crammed into the merch booths, rather than a network directive. I don't doubt that Vince saw it as an opportunity to make money off DX but the way they went about reuniting Triple H and Shawn Michaels was totally out of blue starting at Wrestlemania with them crotch chopping in their individual matches. I think it was not the direction Vince originally planned for the two. Triple H was a heel at the time so it made no sense to do it and in such a halfassed manner. So I went to check and the WWE signed back with USA from Spike in the fall of 2005 and DX reunited in the spring of 2006. That is only a few months apart. It is entirely plausible to think that after the whole changeover someone would take ownership of the product they put on TV and Bonnie Hammer would start feeding Vince suggestions and requests. Or it could all be coincidental. *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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