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Which luchadores are you ranking?

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#181 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:08 AM

Forgot to mention but I did watch and review the entire When World's Collide card: http://prowrestlingo...-9#entry5716740

AAA When World's Collide (11/6/94)

Checking this out after hearing them talk about it on BTS #16. Mike Tenay and Crispy Cruise are our commentators.

Mascarita Sagrada and Octagoncito vs. Espectrito and Jerrito Estrada

Was tempted to skip this just to wind Grimmas up. 5ft is too tall to be a mini in my view. Not a lot to talk about here.

**

Fuerza Guerrera, Madonna's Boyfriend, and Psicosis vs. Rey Mysterio, Jr., Heavy Metal, and Latin Lover

Madonna's boyfriend is such a ridiculous gimmick. Also had to laugh when Cruise claimed that this was the most anticipated event in Mexico since the 1986 World Cup. Ha ha. Just a lot of spots and, even with English language commentary, I can't get into stuff like this. Madonna's boyfriend was appropriately goofy. Rey dazzled and it was his show. Very abrupt finish.

**1/2

The Pegasus Kid, 2 Cold Scorpio, and Tito Santana vs. Jerry Estrada, La Parka, and Blue Panther

I love the route 1 thinking that must have gone into Tito being booked for this show, but from the point of view of the average American fan sitting at home it makes perfect sense from a kayfabe perspective. This felt more of a showcase type match all about the various different pairings. I think perhaps Cruise and Tenay went on about Tito being a potential weak link a bit too much on commentary. I can imagine American fans at the time being excited at some of the Benoit and 2 Cold sequences here. Entertaining, but very disjointed and less than the sum of its parts.

***

Octagón and El Hijo del Santo vs. La Pareja del Terror (Art Barr and Eddie Guerrero)

To win each fall, they need to pin both partners. So every fall is like a mini-survivor series. I was watching this from a WWE 24/7 upload which kept fast forwarding the action, so I went to find the full thing. So I watched short version 1.5 times and full one once before this review. There was around eight minutes missing from WWE version.

Heels take the first fall in short order after a Frankensteiner from the top rope off the shoulders on Santo by Eddie and a frog splash on Octagon by Love Machine. Art Barr and Guerrero are very effective heels jawing at the crowd and so on. I've always loved some of Eddie's standard spots, like the crawling on knees into the eye poke.

Second fall also short as babyfaces bounce back after a double dive swings the momentum. But then Santo is eliminated after a straight Frankensteiner by Eddie. Weird, Santo has been made to look super weak in this match so far. Eliminated first switch and now Octagon has had to save his bacon to make it 1-1. Santo goes over and embraces him for the save. I'd have liked the sense of jeopardy to be teased and dwelt on a little bit more. This has been one of my little issues with Lucha stuff seems to happy too quickly and abruptly to digest. And I've watched these first two falls THREE times now. They could afford to linger a little more on the drama. They don't need the John Cena-like pregnant pauses and internal monologues, just slow down a little bit so we can feel the poignancy and sense of danger. It all happens too quickly.

Anyway, now moving into the footage fast forwarded by WWE. Barr puts Octagon away with an illegal tombstone piledriver while the ref's back is turned. So it is Santo, two vs. one going into this final fall. Nice contemptuous slap by Barr to show Octagon is out cold. He's stretchered out. Superplex on Santo. Frog splash. Kick out. Santo dive to the outside onto Guerrero. Piledriver by Blue Panther -- who is there as a second for the faces -- on Love Machine. Crowd erupts. It's going to be Eddie vs. Santo one vs. one.

Belly to belly from the top by Eddie. Cover gets two. Frankensteiner from the top by Eddie. Cover gets two. Full Nelson suplex by Eddie. Cover gets two. He tried it again but Samto slips into a sunset flip for three to win the match.

The storytelling here was layered and compelling. And both of the babyfaces got to be the hero, Octagon in the second fall and Santo in the third. Heels were fantastic on offense, and being general douchebags. This is a very good match, but for my tastes, it all feels a bit rushed. I really would have liked this to go another 10-15 mins to flesh out those first two falls. It all seems a bit truncated for the drama involved. It might seem like a strange gripe, but it's one that stops this being ranked among the all-time classics to me.

****1/2

Perro Aguayo vs. Konnan

I honestly thought this was as good as it possibly could have been. Aguayo's juice job here is something, and he is great as a grizzled veteran who is never going to say die here. At least as good as Jose Lothario was in Houston in 1979. They used the cage well. Sufficiently brutal. And worked logically. Double boot stomp from Aguayo was cool. Everything involving him had heft to it. And "lack of heft" is one of my typical Lucha bug bears. Eddie and Madonna's boyfriend run out. Eddie throws Coke in Perro's face, throws Konan a pair of brass knucks. The old man is out. Powerbomb! Oh my god this blood. This is up there for juice jobs.

The LA fans are getting restless. Aguayo is absolutely covered in blood. Streaming down his face. Jesus Christ! Kicks by Konan. This goes on for some time. Music hits and Cien Caras and his crew run out to deal with Eddie's shenanigans. Samoan drop by Aguayo. Double boot from the top. He escapes the cage to win. Crowd goes absolutely apeshit and this felt huge.

Honestly, even taking in the run ins and all the rest of it, I thought this was awesome. Gets a star for the blood levels alone and the feel good moment of he win. I bet back in the day Meltzer and the smart community rated both the six mans over this. If they did, I disagree.

****



#182 elliott

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:43 PM

I actually totally agree with that high rating for Perro vs Konnan. I've always loved that match.

 

Meltzer's ratings were:

4 stars for the minis

4 stars for Rey Jr match

3 1/2 for the Scorpio/Santana etc match

5 for the big tag of course

3 1/2 for Perro/Konnan

 

So he liked it. But I agree it was pretty easily the 2nd best match on the card last time I watched the show and if you gave me the option to rewatch only one match from this show it might actually be that one since I feel like I could close my eyes and watch the entire tag match from memory I've seen it so many times.

 

I encourage watching the show mostly for Tenay's explanations of the differences in rules, psychology, tradition, etc between Lucha and US wrestling. I used to think it was the best PPV ever way back when. I don't really think that anymore and if I were to watch it and rate it my ratings would probably be much closer to JVK's than to Meltzer's. But it is definitely an important show to watch for people who want an introduction to lucha. Even though the undercard matches are single falls trios matches instead of 2/3 falls, Tenay gives the viewer all of the background information on how the style is worked that if you pay attention to the commentary and think about it when seeking out other lucha, it will help the viewer understand what they're seeing better. Not saying "If you watch this and absorb the commentary, you will definitely be a fan of lucha afterwards." But it answered a ton of questions I would have had if I had gone from "WCW Nitro Lucha Matches" to Real Lucha Matches without seeing that show before anything else.



#183 mookeighana

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 12:32 PM

The board crashed during the AWA voting period. Incidentally, the lucha set sold way better than the AWA set. The membership of DVDVR along with the board crash killed the voting. Also, with the various holdups in creating a new 80s set, I never set a firm votinng deadline. Chris Harrington took the initiative to tally up the ballots he had. I had a ballot but didn't turn it in. Others I know also didn't turn in a ballot because we didn't know Chris was ready to just tally the votes. 

 

 

I do want to apologize for the chaos I caused with the lucha ballots. I just didn't know what was happening with that. If we ever want to set a new deadline and get a revote, I'm game to tally. Like it was noted, there was some turmoil in communications and project continuity with DVDVR and general quietness. But I missed at least one ballot that was sent in and there was certainly others that had rankings that weren't included.



#184 goodhelmet

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 10:14 PM

I talked to Phil tonight and when I release Portland and Puerto Rico, we'll try and reboot the project with voting. 



#185 Grimmas

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 06:01 AM

I talked to Phil tonight and when I release Portland and Puerto Rico, we'll try and reboot the project with voting. 

Voting on lucha? If that's a month or so out, I can watch the discs I missed and vote.







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