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Which luchadores are you ranking?

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#21 Matt D

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:52 AM

I really like 05-06 Guerreros oversized athletic bully Olimpico. I've seen very little (maybe none?) of his 90s tecnico work though, which I imagine is extremely different.

 

I also like jerk heel Psicosis a lot, but not enough to get him on, I don't think. 



#22 concrete1992

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:21 PM

There has been little talk of minis during this period. I wouldn't be apposed to voting for any but we are getting down to the wire and none have been talked up to the point of forcing me to plop down and watch.



#23 JRGoldman

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:35 PM

The locks I have that other people have mentioned already are:

 

Casas, Santito, Satanico, El Dandy, Charles, Park, Sangre Chicana, Virus, Fuerza, Solar, Negro Navarro, Terry, Atlantis, Blue Panther, Pirata, and Rey. 

 

The two people I am pretty positive will make my list that have not gotten listed thus far are Porky and Cassandro. 



#24 El McKell

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:38 PM

I'm pretty sure I'll be ranking El Hijo del Santo, Atlantis, El Dandy, Pirata Morgan and Satanico with possible places for MS-1, Dr. Wagner Jr and Blue Panther.

 

There has been little talk of minis during this period. I wouldn't be apposed to voting for any but we are getting down to the wire and none have been talked up to the point of forcing me to plop down and watch.

 

Grimmas had a thread a while back where he was reviewing a bunch of minis matches, http://prowrestlingo...e-minis-thread/

 



#25 Loss

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

I recommended five Espectrito matches in his thread that are a good intro for some of the other guys mentioned too.



#26 Childs

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

 

I'd probably appreciate Atlantis more if I made a concerted effort to look at his work in trios over the years. He's been a tecnico glue guy in so many and that might be his best calling card, even if he's more famous for his run of recent apuestas matches. But I haven't really done that, so to me, he's a technically skilled worker with tremendous longevity who has rarely blown my hair back in singles matches. I don't blame Atlantis for my qualms with the recent mask matches; I just have trouble getting into them because of the lack of blood and grit. The Ultimo Guerrero and Sombra matches would probably be significant feathers in his cap for some voters. For me, they mostly just help his longevity case. 



#27 Matt D

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:54 PM

 

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

 

I'd probably appreciate Atlantis more if I made a concerted effort to look at his work in trios over the years. He's been a tecnico glue guy in so many and that might be his best calling card, even if he's more famous for his run of recent apuestas matches. But I haven't really done that, so to me, he's a technically skilled worker with tremendous longevity who has rarely blown my hair back in singles matches. I don't blame Atlantis for my qualms with the recent mask matches; I just have trouble getting into them because of the lack of blood and grit. The Ultimo Guerrero and Sombra matches would probably be significant feathers in his cap for some voters. For me, they mostly just help his longevity case. 

 

Did you see the Silver Fox match that dropped last week? Was that out there previously? I haven't seen anyone talk about it. It's not a blow-away match by any means, but if you haven't seen it, you should.



#28 Childs

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 02:00 PM

On the Navarro/Solar point, I've always responded more strongly to Navarro because I like him better as a brawler. He threw some of the best punches in wrestling and came off as a tough son of a bitch on top of being a mat maestro. OJ's point about his earlier work being more questionable than Terry's is probably a fair one. I perhaps give Navarro an instinctive pass, because he was part of a famous trio. But the reality is he has never looked like an all-timer in the Misioneros footage that has surfaced. I'm probably ranking others based on less impressive peaks than Terry's IWRG run, so my gut tells me I need to find a place for him.  



#29 Childs

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 02:01 PM

 

 

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

 

I'd probably appreciate Atlantis more if I made a concerted effort to look at his work in trios over the years. He's been a tecnico glue guy in so many and that might be his best calling card, even if he's more famous for his run of recent apuestas matches. But I haven't really done that, so to me, he's a technically skilled worker with tremendous longevity who has rarely blown my hair back in singles matches. I don't blame Atlantis for my qualms with the recent mask matches; I just have trouble getting into them because of the lack of blood and grit. The Ultimo Guerrero and Sombra matches would probably be significant feathers in his cap for some voters. For me, they mostly just help his longevity case. 

 

Did you see the Silver Fox match that dropped last week? Was that out there previously? I haven't seen anyone talk about it. It's not a blow-away match by any means, but if you haven't seen it, you should.

 

I haven't, but I'll check it out.



#30 InYourCase

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 03:24 PM

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

I find him extremely boring. There's nothing he does wrong, really (I hate the Atlantida but that's a personal gripe) but he does nothing that ever engages me. Didn't like his mask matches with Ultimo and La Sombra. He's there. I feel like you could plug in tons of other people and they'd be better in his role than he is. 



#31 pantherwagner

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 03:52 PM

 

 

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

 

I'd probably appreciate Atlantis more if I made a concerted effort to look at his work in trios over the years. He's been a tecnico glue guy in so many and that might be his best calling card, even if he's more famous for his run of recent apuestas matches. But I haven't really done that, so to me, he's a technically skilled worker with tremendous longevity who has rarely blown my hair back in singles matches. I don't blame Atlantis for my qualms with the recent mask matches; I just have trouble getting into them because of the lack of blood and grit. The Ultimo Guerrero and Sombra matches would probably be significant feathers in his cap for some voters. For me, they mostly just help his longevity case. 

 

Did you see the Silver Fox match that dropped last week? Was that out there previously? I haven't seen anyone talk about it. It's not a blow-away match by any means, but if you haven't seen it, you should.

 

 

I'm far from a lucha footage expert these days, but I was surprised when I saw that match popping up. I knew about the match but had no idea it was out there.



#32 Dylan Waco

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 04:23 PM

I really haven't even thought about a rough draft at this point, but here are the luchadors I am positive I will rate in no particular order:

 

Negro Casas, El Hijo Del Santo, Blue Panther, Virus, Satanico, El Dandy, Black Terry

 

Strong possibility:

 

LA Park, La Fiera, Sangre Chicana, Emilo Charles Jr. 

 

Need to watch more ASAP to feel fully comfortable with, but feel like they should be instinctively: 

 

Fuerza Guerrera, Pirata Morgan, Perro Aguayo Sr., Villano III

 

People I want to include but I'm no sure I can really justify it:

 

Villano IV, Javier Cruz, Mocho Cota 

 

I'm open to people like MS-1, Lizmark, et., but I'd be lying if I said they were likely picks at this point.  Atlantis I won't include.  I don't hate him, in fact I think he's very good, but he has no attribute that jumps out at me and screams "this is why he belongs in your top 100."  

 

In the end I will likely have 10-15 on my list.  



#33 cad

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:52 PM

 

I'm not really a classical, traditional tecnico sort of guy but I have Atlantis relatively high. What's the downsides on him? I sort of get the sense that he does everything well but he doesn't stand out in one specific area like other people who do everything well (such as Santo). I do think he garners sympathy very well. I'm kind of high on his rudo run, as I think he embraced the role more than Santo did, for instance. I know I'm an exception there though.

I find him extremely boring. There's nothing he does wrong, really (I hate the Atlantida but that's a personal gripe) but he does nothing that ever engages me. Didn't like his mask matches with Ultimo and La Sombra. He's there. I feel like you could plug in tons of other people and they'd be better in his role than he is. 

 

 

That wasn't true of him in his younger days. People keep saying he has no standout attribute but until the minis became regulars he was probably the best flyer in the EMLL (maybe there were better guys on untaped undercards or smaller shows, I don't know). To me that's an elite quality. I don't know how innovative he was, but I can't think of anyone else at the time doing moonsaults to the outside or the twisty cross body block or that tope where he hits his opponent at like a 25 degree angle. On the occasions he'd stoop to performing a straight tope through the ropes he'd execute that beautifully too. There might have been better tecnicos but I can't think of anyone who'd have been as good in the same role. Oro was a phenomenon when he showed up a few years later and I don't think he was as good a flyer as late '80s Atlantis.



#34 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:09 PM

If Atlantis' matches against the likes of Fiera and Emilio Charles Jr were just a bit better he'd be a slum dunk pick. It's weird that he has a rep as an apuesta worker now as he was never that great at them in his prime. The Mano Negra bout in particular is a real disappointment since Negra was a good worker.

Another thing that hurts Atlantis from a singles match perspective is that he was overly fond of shock falls where he'd score a pinfall or submission in seconds.

I'd take him over Villano III, though, who doesn't often meet my expectations.

#35 Eduardo

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:32 PM

I would still argue one of Atlantis' strong points was being Blue Panther's best dancing partner, by a significant margin. Both in singles and trios matches. There are a couple of trios matches out there, involving El HIjo Del Santo, Negro Casas, Atlantis, and Blue Panther, where the sequences between Atlantis-Panther were worked at a higher level than Santo-Casas. Panther never reached that level of work with anyone other than Atlantis. That might be more of a negative on Panther though. 



#36 Loss

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:34 PM

I would be interested in more people explaining their thoughts on minis.



#37 Dylan Waco

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:42 PM

My thoughts on mini's are basically that I should probably watch a bit more of the top couple, but on the surface none of them feel like an obvious pick.  I would be willing to watch your top mini picks though Loss, and would start tonight if you send me links.  I'm not at all opposed to Sagrada, and could see him placing for me.  I love Demus 3:16 as a guy who always delivers when given a chance (loved his hair v. hair against Shockercito from last year for example), but the chances are very limited.  This sounds awful for multiple reasons but I almost think a mini would have to feel bigger than the division for me to seriously consider them.  



#38 Childs

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:59 PM

I would be interested in more people explaining their thoughts on minis.

Honestly I just haven't seen enough of them. The yearbooks offered a taste but I'm not sure I came away with a clear grip on each guy's case. Maybe if I went back and watched the Espectrito matches in a focused fasion?

#39 concrete1992

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:01 PM

This sounds awful for multiple reasons but I almost think a mini would have to feel bigger than the division for me to seriously consider them.  

You're above this. 



#40 ohtani's jacket

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 03:59 AM

I would be interested in more people explaining their thoughts on minis.


The problem with minis is that their runs never last that long. The mini division in 1997 was amazing and then it fell apart when Virus won promotion to the heavier ranks. The AAA minis you like were primarily on the scene in '94. Recent minis probably have stronger cases. Demus and Pierrothito have been around for a lot longer than Espectrito, for example.





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